30 Jun 2024 07:48:08
ED002,

Do you see Utd pushing for a deal for Branthwaite today?

Do Everton still need to sell players before the end of today?

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Manchester United and Everton are miles apart in valuation.}

1.) 30 Jun 2024
30 Jun 2024 11:22:37
If this deal is to happen it'll be after today's PSR deadline.

In truth the PSR deadline has already passed. Clubs need the funds in their account by today, it's not enough to just have the deal agreed, but the transfer of funds has to have happened. Transfering large sums of money on a Sunday isn't likely or even possible in many cases.

I think United offered as much as they could while staying inside the PSR boundaries for themselves. That's why they looked at including players to bring the offer up as they needed to sell those players to raise the funds to add to the deal. As they couldn't sell them they looked at including them in the deal instead. Which was flatly rejected by Everton.

Once the deadline has passed and one of the really bad years (where we made a big loss) has dropped off United will be able to offer more. This increases further once they start selling some players and bringing in funds.

I fully expect United to go back in for Branthwaite and for a deal to be done for around the 60m mark, maybe including add-ons or with additional add-ons. Depends on how well we can negotiate and how much Branthwaite pushes for the move, as Everton don't HAVE to sell and they know that he will likely increase in value over the next season or so. Keeping him means they keep a great player and have an asset that is increasing in value. Absolutely no reason to sell on the cheap. That said I think United will still push hard for this deal. He is also one of the few players that might be worth paying a bit more for.

2.) 30 Jun 2024
30 Jun 2024 13:01:29
Shappy I would be surprised if your interpretation of football club finance is correct, at least if clubs are run like traditional businesses, the money does not need to be in the bank account.

As for Branthwaite I’d be hoping the club is looking seriously at other options if Everton are demanding in excess of £60m.

3.) 30 Jun 2024
30 Jun 2024 16:00:04
Wazza, that's the interpretation I've heard from several "football finance experts".

Any income after midnight tonight counts to next year's accounts not this year's.

4.) 30 Jun 2024
30 Jun 2024 17:11:13
Shappy sorry pal but you are blurring the lines between cash in the bank and signed agreements. They are two very different things. At least from my experience running businesses. I’d be surprised if it was any different for a football club.

5.) 30 Jun 2024
30 Jun 2024 17:34:32
No it doesn't.

6.) 30 Jun 2024
30 Jun 2024 20:26:48
This is why accountants exist, to make sure the money on paper is where it needs to be when it needs to be.

United seem to think that the have the chance to get a player for a price that suits them quite possibly because of the position that the other club find themselves in.

Everton don't want to sell him cheap, United ont his circumstance have to be prepared to walk away if Everton will not sell for what they are prepared to pay.

Branthwaite isn't the player I would be prepared to go all in on, Silva is if we are looking at young CB.

7.) 30 Jun 2024
30 Jun 2024 22:41:24
Oakbark, while I think Silva and Yoro for that matter are talented young CB's, I don't believe either is any better than Branthwaite is right now, having watched both of them on 5 or 6 occasions.

I think there is a lot of snobbery when it comes to talents playing in the EPL for "smaller" clubs. With fans preferring the fancy foreign name who they've never seen play more than once if at all.

Maybe Silva and Yoro go on to become better players than Branthwaite, they are both a couple of years younger after all.

Yet neither have shown themselves capable in the EPL, a league that has chewed up and spat out many top class players with more than 5 times the experience of either Yoro or Silva.

Absolutely no guarantees that either of them will adapt to the EPL.

While has proven he can excel in the EPL, that has to be worth something over the the others. He can also comfortably play at both RCB and LCB, meaning he can play with or cover for Martinez. Something neither Yoro or Silva could do. He also ticks a box in terms of homegrown players. Something that we have to consider given that both Evans and Heaton will either leave this summer or next. Along with Sancho, Greenwood, AWB, Maguire and McTominay. Which would only leave Rashford, Shaw, Mount to fulfill the 7 homegrown spots we need. None of which are guaranteed long term options.

Branthwaite is on par with both Yoro and Silva currently (albeit he is a little older), he is EPL proven, and counts as homegrown. For those reasons he is worth paying a bit more for as he is less of a gamble and offers more.

8.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 05:17:19
Branthwaite being on a par with anyone is another completely unmeasurable opinion of course, he’s English and young and I get the appeal. I saw him completely rinsed on several occasions last season and don’t see the fuss. I suspect we’ll get him though and hope he rises to the occasion.

9.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 05:57:58
shappy/ spenno

Everytime i have watched him against better teams and players he has been poor. maybe its everton and who he has around him. he does not strike me as a guy who is a transformational defender to build around. On yoro not being better I would have to disagree shappy. Totally different player and ceiling is very high.

Shappy you keep saying pl proven. The last two pl proven defenders we signed for a total of 130 mill have not exactly proven as good business. The only one I can think of that has being a success is Rio but then again he was different.

{Ed025's Note - you have obviously not seen a lot of Branthwaite ahmad, he is top quality mate and miles better than you have, i think he will end up at Old Trafford but not at the low ball price you are offering im afraid..

10.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 06:17:57
Branthwait is potential. He's nowhere near the england team even when HM is ruled out with injury. So he is nowhere near a $70m player today.

Everton have every right not to sell him. Utd have every right not to buy. If we do end up getting him it will be a slow burner.

{Ed025's Note - he only just missed the cut for the Euro,s DB, so him being nowhere near the England team is not actually true mate, i agree that if slab head was fit he would have been selected before Jarrad but that says more about the incompetent England manager than anything else, i believe he will go to United though as he wants the move but i would have loved him to stay at Everton...hes the future..

11.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 06:30:54
I wouldn't be upset with us getting any of three mentioned. Everyone will have the favourites amongst them, I suspect all three will be good buys over time.

As an aside supposedly as the 30th is a non working day, deals that go through today can be registered for the purpose of the accounts as occurring on the 30th.

12.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 09:13:50
Ahmad, all three are young defenders learning their craft. As such all will make mistakes, it's how they handle those mistakes that will define them. Silva had a nightmare the other night for Portugal. It happens.

There is also a world of difference making a mistake for Lille or Everton and making a mistake at Manchester United.

Branthwaite has more experience, is a little older and has played for different teams and in different countries. From what I hear from people who have worked with him he has a top class attitude and mentality. Maybe Silva and Yoro do as well, but I've not spoken with anyone who would know that.

Considering that all three will be around the same price, and are probably all around the same level currently (potential might be different between them, but that means nothing unless it's realised) . We need to consider other aspects to see which is a better deal. Branthwaite is EPL proven, will have a lower chance of failure, is British and counts as homegrown, and is more flexible and able to offer more tactical flexibility to the squad. It's also likely that Branthwaite has more longevity at the club as English players rarely push for moves to big continental clubs. We know Yoro has his sights set on Real Madrid, and I wouldn't be surprised if Silva would want to got to either of the two big Spanish clubs if they came calling in the future.

Branthwaite isn't the sexy name, but for all those reasons when all three will cost the same it means Branthwaite is probably better value and the better option.

The only argument I've seen anyone put forward for either Yoro or Silva over Branthwaite is the very wooly and subjective "more potential" debate. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. They are different players who at this moment in time suit different styles of play. All three in my opinion have the potential to be amongst the best CB's in the world in 2-4 years time. Which for me means their potential is fairly similar. Yet as I've said potential is also potentially nothing.

They could flop at a bigger club, or in a different country, or they could pick up serious injuries that detail their progress.

While there is an argument that Yoro and Silva are performing at a similar level at a younger age, you can also argue that the physical nature of playing CB on a younger body that is still developing and growing could bring about more injuries in the long term. When I think of CB's who were playing regularly at the top level at 17 or 18 years old I think of Varane or more recently De Ligt. Both have struggled with injuries throughout their careers.

I hope that neither Silva or Yoro go on to have injury issues, but it has to be a consideration. While bringing them to the most physically demanding league to play in one of the most physically demanding positions at such a young age and while their bodies are still growing/ developing should also be something to consider.

13.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 08:44:14
ED025,

I've not really seen much of JB, but he what I have seen of him, is that he does slightly remind me of Vidic.

Personally I think he would thrive alongside Martinez at Utd.

{Ed025's Note - i would think so too MH..

14.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 09:52:33
Ed25, correct me if I am wrong but you support Everton? If so can you tell me if he is predominantly left footed or not? Obvs if we got him he'd play next to Licha, so would be on the right hand side and I've seen JB say himself he is both, but just wondering what your thoughts were. Thanks.

{Ed025's Note - hes left footed Elvis, i do support Everton mate and thats why i can tell you you would be getting an excellent young player if you did sign Jarrad, him and Martinez both being lefties would not be a problem though imo because they are both decent with their right foot as well..

15.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 13:57:28
JB is best option available imo and I think he will do well.
Much better option than Silva or yoro imo if they are looking at him coming straight into the team. Miles ahead of yoro in terms of experience and proven ability.
All 3 are very good players obviously with JB carrying the least risk imo due to his epl experience.
Personally I wouldn't go near de ligt.
I think that ajax team had a freak season. None of the star players sold went on to achieve very much after their moves. All talented players who were young at the time had momentum on their side that season but no real superstars and they have proven that over time.

16.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 14:52:22
ed025

I have watched him quite a few times given we got linked to him early in the year. I do actually watch a lot of games just to see players we get linked to or if its someone who all the big clubs get linked to. I am not slagging him but not a player I have watched that grabs my attention and I go wow. Solid decent young Pl defender but vey basic passing and distribution imo.

Tarkowski has better stats than Branthwaite by the way, that's for Shappy who loves stats.

All I am saying is maybe maybe the club did not low ball the bid and genuinely see him for that kind of value and there is a major valuation gap between us and Everton.

I think we would have already signed Todibo had it not hit a snag, which I would assume is a priority for us to get a right footed CB and might have nothing to do with BT signing or another left footed CB.

IMO if we are going to sign a left footer, Inacio from Sporting is a better player and makes a lot more sense, Release clause not too far away from BR bid that we made. age, passing, technically no comparison and speed all tick the box.

Finally, Is the Branthwaite interest really a back up for Martinez. Lots of reports last few days about us signing two CB's and maybe the club thought we can get him in as cover for Martinez at a reasonable price given ETH desire to have a left footed CB on the pitch at all times.

Finally, if he as good as some think, where are the other bids given Everton's need to sell. Chelsea, Villa, Spurs, United and even city who seem to buy a CB every year and a host of teams are looking for CB's.

If people are advocating paying 60 or 70 million for branthwaite then i am not in that boat. I would put that on the table on someone like arujo from Barcelona and see if we can get someone like him. oceans apart imo.

Finally, united fans never change, we all get transfer heat and want the club to splash money to only later say we were stupid paying that much for this player and that player lol.

{Ed025's Note - i think he will end up at UTD for £50m +add ons ahmad, but he will not be back up to anyone mate, if you get him he starts..

17.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 15:02:05
@shappy you should go back to your 'several' football Finsbury experts and tell them they are not exists. They are talking rubbish or else you have missed heard or misinterpreted what they told you.

18.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 15:17:45
Ed025

You may be correct on that one. I am just going by what eth has said in the past, where he wants a natural right footer and left foot cb combination.

Last year we had 5 right footed and one left footed cb in the squad and he always talks about balance and passing lanes. I don't believe he will play BR and Martinez together but let's wait and see. It goes against his philosophy, which btw most other top teams do the same thing.

I trust whatever the club decides to do and believe we are in the market for two cb's. Lefties are harder to find and he may be our best option if Inacio is not gettable.

{Ed025's Note - you want him and he wants you ahmad so i believe there is a deal to be done mate, top players can play on either side imo..

19.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 15:42:09
50 mill is decent ed. I think anything around 70m is just crazy.

They're also quoting DeLigt at 40m+, I think that would be a better bet. But I'd imagine they are looking at both. God knows we need it ?.

{Ed025's Note - yeah angel but the home grown factor and the fact he is young may make Jarrad the better option for you mate..

20.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 16:20:57
And now I feel truly old, with de Ligt at 24 being less than half my age. Not even in his prime.

21.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 18:49:52
Ahmad, with Martinez being out most of last season which left footed CB did we play to meet EtH's preferences?

Hell, we played most the season with a right footed left back let alone a left footed centre back.

Yeah, sure I'd imagine most coaches would like a right foot/ left foot balance throughout the team, but given that less than 12% of people in the world are left footed that makes it practically impossible.

22.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 18:51:39
I wouldn't go near De Ligt personally. Massive wages, patchy injury record, and he hasn't truly convinced at either Juventus or Bayern since leaving Ajax.

He has potential flop written all over him.

23.) 01 Jul 2024
01 Jul 2024 19:52:20
Thanks Ed, yer I think so too. Still not certain we will definitely sign him but he is a top prospect for sure.

{Ed025's Note - yeah Elvis, that SJR needs to put his hand in his pocket mate and start spending, its not as if hes spending it on hairdressing or anything is it.. :)

24.) 02 Jul 2024
02 Jul 2024 22:34:20
If your club was not in the PSR door do and needing to make transfers prior to the end of season deadline, I would be delaying sales until after the new season start, could also be the case that teams spending want to wait. There is also the Copa and Euros going on which I think may slow down a fair few deals. I think it's quite understandable if a player wants to sort I tbout post tournament and just concentrate on that for now.

I know the American sports with salary caps, yearly bonuses etc are strongly guided in their actions by the financial aspect and what counts and when and would assume that the number crunchers in football are thinking along the same lines whilst the mechanisms are very different, the timing of the deals will now be important to clubs, they need to account for PSR, amortization etc etc you have to know what you spent over the last 5 seasons and what your still accounting for and then freeing up in sales on the accounts this year money to spend which you may account for over 5 years but knowing that you have to also consider you need to potential nake sales in each of the following four years for this year's purchases.

Football manager is going to start getting really complicated now.