28 Aug 2025 07:19:26
So many things to talk about.

The players were poor but let's talk about the Manager.

I have no issue with RA having a preferred system, but it isn't his preferred system, it's his only system. We were playing a League 2 side and we still went with 3 CBs. We went 2 goals down yet we still with the system, madness.

It was clear early on that the players were not up for it, yet he waited until half time to change any of them. And the fact they weren't up for it also rests with him.

Not watching the penalties was scandalous, the look on his face was that of a rabbit caught in headlights.

His comments post match reinforced that he doesn't know how to fix this.

I think he will walk, his demeanour and comments suggest he knows the water is far too deep for him.

{Ed001's Note - Klopp never watched penalties either. I don't think that is a reason to can someone.}

1.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 09:36:31
The players clearly lack confidence right now. We saw a good performance against Arsenal lead to nothing due mostly to poor refereeing decisions. We started well against Fulham but just couldn't get the goal, and we clearly started to see the confidence drain out of the players. It was like they saw us miss a few good chances and they thought "here we go again".

Yes the manager could change the tactics, but that would only undermine the players confidence further. How are they supposed to have any confidence in what they are doing when the manager rips up everything they have spent the last 6 months working on.

We have the same issues that we have had for years, a lack of quality and a total lack of leadership on the pitch.

We had to rotate the players in the game against Grimsby, both to rest some players and to give minutes to squad players to get make sure they are match sharp for when we inevitably need them. Yet a glance over that starting line is super telling in terms of a lack of leadership in this squad.

We had Dorgu, Heaven, Fredricson, Mainoo, Amad and Sesko. All lads 22 or younger. They aren't leaders and shouldn't be at their ages/ level of development.

So who does that leave? Onana, Maguire, Dalot, Ugarte and Cunha. Which of these senior pros are leaders? Maguire and Cunha maybe at a stretch.

People complain about Bruno starting all the time but he's one of the few leaders we have. MdL and Mount have shown leadership qualities throughout their career, but if we are honest there isn't a great deal of players who were rotated out who add a lot of leadership either.

Sometimes doing nothing when things go wrong is the least worse option. Sometimes everything you could do would only make things worse. Having the bravery and wisdom to not act in those situations is a rare quality.

As for not watching the penalties, that's a nothing issue. Lots of managers don't watch the penalties, for some maybe it's too much, but for most it can be to reduce the pressure on the players who already feel under huge pressure. It depends on the players and their current state of mind. Personally I'd leave that to the manager to make that call as he will have a fat better understanding of that than I do.

His comments post match suggest that he knows this isn't a quick fix, and ultimately requires better quality players being brought in. Players with character, quality and leadership.

I wouldn't try and read too much into his post match demeanor, he has said previously that sometimes immediately after the match his emotions are running high and he needs time to reflect. Ultimately the reason managers and players are forced in front of a camera immediately after a game is to try and catch them when the emotions are running high as they are more likely to say something that can generate entertainment and interest. Anyone worth their salt in a professional capacity doesn't act on those high emotions they wait until they've regulated themselves and they can think clearly and act purposefully.

Loads of stories in football of players and managers acting in the moment then backpedaling once the emotions have calmed. Heard one recent from Rio about him kicking off with Sir Alex in the dressing room after a game over a substitution he made, only for Rio to realise his error later that day and go to the managers office to apologise the next morning, and get an earful for his actions.

Lets let things calm down and the manager to keep working with the players. We knew this wasn't a quick fix, we didn't finish 15th last season due to bad luck, it was on merit. We were that awful, and to suddenly expect pretty much the same team to be dramatically better this season with 3 new players (who are still trying to settle in to the team) is just unrealistic.

This will take time, we can choose to either be true supporters and get behind the team and the manager, or we can be toxic glory supporters and turn on them because they aren't going to provide us with instant glory. The choice is ours.

2.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 09:39:11
I was hoping for much more this season, ok I get it that it is still early doors, given our new forward line but that performance against Grimsby was a shocker, in fact probably the worst Utd performance I've seen.

When a team overloads you in midfield you must react in some way but RA does not. He will change the players but steadfastly refuses to change the system, madness.

Just look around the premiership and how many teams play 3-5-3, some have tried it but it does not work.

P. S. don't mention the keeper!

3.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 10:22:13
But Klopp was much cuter when asked why he didn't watch penalties he said he was fully confident in the penalty taker and wamted to view the crowd and see their reaction and emotion.

It might well be BS but it doesn't matter because its not got everyone in this narrative that Amorim is frightened and isn't a leader. He is merely doing what the same as a manager i put up on the very highest level. A manager i wish we had at United more than any other since Sir Alex left.

The problem is its United and Amorim is at the stage where everyrhing is being looked at to being yet another stick to beat him with by the media, social media and online. he's at a place where its very hard to come back from now, he is going to need a brave management team to back him and not cave in if he's to make it through in my opinion.

4.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 10:31:50
Jrred how on earth do you play a 3-5-3 and still mention the keeper?

5.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 10:50:00
United Addict
If we play 3 5 3 we might win.

6.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 10:57:25
Might do better if we could have an extra player for 3-5-3.

7.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 11:30:36
Jrred, the formation is not the problem.

Has anyone on here ever studied organic chemistry?

Initially you are taught about electron "shells" to help you understand atomic structure and how atoms bond. The principle that electrons move in the shells at set distances from the neutron.

However, once you understand this clearly the rug is pulled out and you realise that electron shells don't exist. They are merely said to exist to help those without understanding bridge the gaps and gain the knowledge.

Where am I going with this? Well football formations are the same thing. They don't really exist, they are merely said to exist to help those without a detailed understanding of football tactics try and make some sense of what is going on.

The line up says 343, and that is to try and give the average fan some kind of idea about what type of player is playing and roughly where.

For example three at the back means three CB's and we kind of know what a CB is and what they do (tall, strong, makes tackles and defends) . So we expect to see three players deepest whose job it is to defend.

Great, by using the formation they have managed to oversimplify the tactics so simple minded fans can understand and engage with the match.

The reality is that players have the autonomy to move all over the pitch and depending on the actual tactics and instructions from the manager/ coaching staff they will move to different positions constantly during the game depending on the game state and the intention of the team in that moment.

People suggesting that a 343 doesn't work in the EPL are completely ignorant of the fact that the in-game shapes and movements of the players in all formations often look pretty similar during a game. The differences is in the individual instruments from the manager.

A 433 for example will often have the single pivot midfielder drop deep between the two CB's forming a defacto back three during build up. Rodri pretty much always does this at City under Pep for example.

Most teams work on the principle that you want to have balance all over the pitch as much as possible, so you have 5 players who give defensive balance and 5 who give offensive balance.

The formation is there to support the players understanding of their role.

In Amorim's 343 system for example the wingbacks push high and join the front three to give you five players to attack with. The wide No.10's tend to stay a little deeper and are the creators, while the CF pegs back the opposition by playing on the shoulder, and the wingbacks stretch the play and drag the fullbacks wide to open up space in the middle.

If the first phase of the attack breaks down then one of the midfields pushes forward to give you 6 attacking and to overload the opposition in the second phase of the attack.

This can leave you open to being countered quickly on the turnover, which is why you need athletic players in defence and midfield to limit that, and it's important upon losing the ball that players get back into their defensive shape quickly.

The back three and the midfield provide defensive balance, the CCB is supposed to push higher and join the midfield when one of the midfielders push up in the second phase of the attack. While the LCB and RCB need to have to pace to cover and are the ball players in defensive half. The midfielders are supposed to be athletic ball winners who aggressively win the ball back and circulate it quickly, they need to be intelligent and understand positioning and fill in the gaps as players rotate positions ahead of them. They are not playmakers, but as Cantona would have called them they are "water carriers".

But as seen if the team follow these tactics then sometimes the wingback will rotate with the No.10's, the CCB is sometimes in defence and sometimes in midfield, the more attacking of the midfielders is mostly in midfield but sometimes joins the attack. Sometimes the shape is 2323, sometimes its 3421, sometimes it's 523, sometimes it's 2233. The shape constantly changes throughout the game. You can't simply say a formation doesn't work in the EPL.

You can say that some players aren't suited to the role the managers tactics/ system demands of them. That is fair.
What probably isn't fair is it complain that we don't have a clear system/ style, only to then also complain when we have a manager who is trying to implement that. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Do you want a clear style of play, or do you want a chameleon of every changing and adapting team where you don't know what you'll get from one game to the next?

8.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 15:49:32
Shappy don't bother mate. Its England, if you don't have 4 defenders named on the starting sheet no more no less you aren't doing it right. What thwy or where they in gane is irrelevant, what matters is where the pre game graphic lines them up.

9.) 28 Aug 2025
28 Aug 2025 16:48:01
Nice, Shappy and Oakbark.