05 Nov 2023 08:59:39
Starting in an offside position, is per se, not offside. Every team in the free kick situation yesterday starts players offside. Why? Presumably because they believe doing so will affect what the defense will do. So Maguire was not offside just because he started in an offside position when the free kick was taken, nor was he offside just because he made a run in the direction of the goal. players do that all the time with the sole purpose of taking a defender with them. The reason he was called offside was, presumably, because he made a lunge for the ball preventing the defender from cutting the cross out.

What was galling about the decision is that there was little indication that the defender would have been able to cut out the cross anyway. He had chosen the wrong line to defend, Maguire rather than Garnacho, but, as pointed out, neither Maguire's original position nor his run made him active per se. There are plenty of times where an offside player makes a run, takes a defender with him, allowing an onside player to shoot or score. How about Rashford and Bruno v City last season?

Since the goal was not flagged for offside in the first place the original decision should have stood unless there was incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. I still do not believe, given how the rules are generally applied, that such was the case, and the goal should have stood.

We got a break with the Wolves decision at the beginning of the season, but it feels like since then virtually every decision has gone against us. Maybe there was once a time when it was the other way around, but those days are over. Now there does seem to be a psychological refereeing bias - call it an excessive scrutiny - against us.

PS. Other than his goal can anybody commend Bruno's performance yesterday?

1.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 09:31:24
I think it is likely that there is more scrutiny from the refs but to be fair there is a lot more scrutiny on their decisions from the media especially when they go for one of the big clubs.

The wolves decision you mention is a perfect example. Wolves united-Loads of media coverage, an apology, rule change, ref watch saying it is a penalty etc.

Compare that to the coverage of Jose sa punching a Leeds player in their game last season, lot worse contact. However Not a massive story in the media, ref watch saying it happens all the time and not a pen etc.

The more clicks your club generates the more stories or scrutiny in the media and refs must be aware of this when officiating.

I don't think they actually are bent but I do think different interpretation is increasing impact on leagues and fan drustration. What is a handball one week is not the next etc.

2.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 09:32:24
If it takes over a minute to make a decision whilst using VAR then they should stick to the on pitch decision. Taking over 4 minutes is a joke.

3.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 09:45:19
It's the inconsistency though isn't it. Look at the Newcastle goal against Arsenal - you can't tell for certain if the ball is out unless you look at it from an aerial point of view. they said VAR couldn't say for certain so let it stand.

But a few weeks earlier, Rashford crossed the ball in for a goal and it was deemed to have gone out of play despite it not being clear. Think it was Brighton.

They just make it up as they go along because they're useless.

4.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 10:03:36
Shaw, I’m quite staunch in my views that if things are going against us we should just suck it up and get on with it.

Yesterday however I finally cracked and feel too that there has been a catalogue of decisions against us since the Wolves game.

Yesterday’s offside was not clear and obvious. The defender made the wrong choice and left Garnacho at the back post for the assist. It could not possibly be proven that the defender chasing Maguire would’ve got to the ball.

It almost felt like VAR was trying to find a reason to disallow the goal. I know that’s ridiculous but it’s hard to not feel aggrieved with the way things are going.

Ultimately I think it was the wrong call to rule out the goal given that nobody can predict what would’ve happened had Maguire not been there, and he didn’t touch the ball.

5.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 10:28:17
It was offside there is no debate.
If a players starts in an offside positron and attempts to play the ball he is deemed offside. No debate at all. Simple offside. The only debate was.
1 did he attempt to play the ball.
2 was his attempt distracting and attracting the defender.
Yes is answer on both counts.
No debate at all given the way the law is written.
You can stamp your feet all you like but it's very clear cut once you deem maguire attempted to play the ball.
If you don't know the law don't dispute it and if you know the law you know it's a correct call.
Inconsistency in them being checked is what is frustrating.

6.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 10:38:36
It looked to me like they were looking hard to find a reason not to give it. How was it clear and obvious when it took 4 minutes and then sent the ref over to look. I heard the words subjective offside, what?

I watched a pen being given against us last week for holding yet when Hojland was rugby tackled against Arsenal it was completely ignored. VAR is inconsistent at best. I saw the goal given against Arsenal yesterday and it was so similar to the one disallowed when Rashford was deemed to take it over. The whole VAR system has become a joke.

7.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 10:58:14
Sorry they're bent, had 9 absolute howlers against utd in 11 games.9!
The media have actually forgotten that the wolves game, Rashfords header was cleared off the line by a deliberate handball. not a dicky bird mentioned about that because it doesn't fit they're agenda.
Yesterday's offside was as bad as it gets, as they made up a rule that doesn't exist to chalk off the goal. they even looked at Brunos goal to try and chalk that off. And when has a ref looked at an offside? never. that was Liverpool its never even looked at and given and that's a fact.

8.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 10:59:23
VAR isn’t inconsistent. It’s just video. What’s inconsistent is refereeing. Not just inconsistent, downright unprofessional. The standard of refereeing has been awful for years with refs not having consistent interpretations of the rules or being able to clearly explain their decisions.

Rather than address the lack of professionalism and accountability in refereeing, they brought in VAR to basically shirk responsibility by saying the computer made the decision. VAR is a tool that should help referees make better decision based on their expertise and common sense. In football it’s used to make decisions. Just another way to excuse referees from being bad at their jobs.

I’ve said this for years, in rugby video is used to allow the ref to discuss an incident with the video ref, use the evidence as a tool to make a decision and then explain their decision to the players. There are still mistakes and some dubious decisions, but there is accountability. The ref makes the decision and has to justify their decision to the players. The discussion is all out in the open and the ref is ultimately responsible.

In football, the ref has a secret conversation with the video ref, if the go over to the monitor you know the original decision is being overturned, and the only explanation is - VAR said it. There’s no accountability and it’s used as an excuse for a lack of quality and professionalism in reffing.

9.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 12:02:17
The problem is we don't know what the VAR people are saying we don't know what the ref is saying, at least then we can understand it was even if we disagree.

10.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 13:27:17
Danny is spot on. VAR is not an issue. All its done is highlight how utterly useless our referees are. The standard of officials in what is considered the best league in the world is absolutely shocking.

We were told that its tough being a Ref, they don't get to see the incidents from an elevated angle in slow motion. Now they can and they still get it wrong.

Literally they get to see the incident several times, slowed down, and in consultation with fellow "experts", sometimes for several minutes and they still get it wrong.

That isn't an issue with VAR or technology, its just incompetence from the officials pure and simple.

In any other walk of life if you were that incompetent at your job, especially if those decisions could have massive financial implications for other businesses, you'd lose your job.

11.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 13:39:17
If the decision for offside yesterday is ultimately correct, i still believe the incompetent officials are in someway biased or corrupt. Certain VAR decisions are always interpreted against us, when a similar offence in our favour Var does not intervene. I honestly believe if we had scored that Newcastle goal yesterday they would have disallowed it, they would have either called the ball out or given the foul on the defender. At some point you have to question why referees interpret things differently depending on the team. Maybe they get free holidays in Abu Dhabi or something but they certainly are not balanced in their decisions.

12.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 13:49:01
inhope. spot on, it's utd and 100% use different rules because of the pro scouse abu media.

13.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 15:04:21
We are the first team to get a goal ruled out for a 'subjective offide' :)

14.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 15:45:48
If it’s subjective, it isn’t “clear and obvious”.

There’s talk of the Saudi league wanting to poach PL refs and the media made it out as if Saudi were the enemy.

I for one will pay for their flights over there.

15.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 17:00:57
Shock decisions recently. I just feel like it will swing around in the long run and we will see some come our way. Just you wait for the scousers saying we always get the decisions when we do get one though.

We need to start scoring goals again as a team, then it matters lessnif our 4th goal is chalked off by a bad decision.

16.) 05 Nov 2023
05 Nov 2023 17:15:17
They need to take a leaf out of the DRS from cricket. Such as umpires call. This is where the clear an obvious crap would end. So VAR is not the issue. It’s the lack of transparent guidance around it. So best take it away from the premier league work on it and then re -implement it once all those teething issues are ironed out.

17.) 06 Nov 2023
06 Nov 2023 08:10:01
This manager unlike the rest gets on with things and does not like to make a big issue out of decisions and injuries. Only thing he says is the injuries have an impact on our playing style and routine. I think the decisions we are getting are just poor and never heard of subjective offside. No idea what that means and no wonder its a mess.

If we did what NC did vs arsenal, both sets of players that is, I reckon we would have 2 sent off and pretty much everyone on a yellow.

The Refs are substandard and same ones rotate and are in charge of Var. Its no wonder this is happening every week. American Football has the best video system. Very rarely do they get one wrong as rules are clear.

Need to simplify the rules and take refs subjectivity out of it completely. i.e Hits your hand its a pen, goes for every team. ATM one gives it, one does not for almost the same type of play. Then they come up with some funky reason which is bs most of the time.

18.) 06 Nov 2023
06 Nov 2023 08:40:33
Shappy, I respectfully will disagree with you. I don't think VAR is highlighting how poor refs are now. I think we always knew that, but what it is doing is taking away responsibility from refs. They can or cannot make a decision. It doesn't really matter because VAR will check. I also think the problem is the technology and the rules that run alongside it.

Offsides, for an example, they are looking for the smallest bit of evidence that a player is ahead of the defender, but they do this by drawing lines! Can you hand on heart, categorically say Garnacho was offside v Arsenal? The angle, the lines and what ends up happening is actually an element of guesswork. Well, that's not right when using technology. I hear people say you either off or not, fine, but that's got to be conclusive not, hard to tell.

I guess they're off. If that's the case, just allow the linesman to make decisions OR make the rules support the technology. For me, offside is about gaining an advantage. If Garnacho had breathed his belly in of trimmed his nose hairs on his offside, he'd still have got the chance and scored, he wasn't gaining any advantage.

19.) 06 Nov 2023
06 Nov 2023 11:02:52
I would remove football people from the car var room. altogether both of x-players and referees. Every single one has allegiances and opinions that are biased. It should be a purely electronic process. The idea that if vat isn’t conclusion, then you can give an opinion on it is completely missing the point.