21 Aug 2024 11:01:06
Ed02 - is Ugarte still our preferred midfield target? There have been a few murmurs about Ederson from Atlanta in the past few days.
I personally think Berge would have been a good squad option but he seems to be off to Fulham.
Thanks.
{Ed002's Note - Ugarte and Ederson are very different players.}
21 Aug 2024 12:31:22
With time short in the window do you think we may move for both ed? I think it would outgoings dependent.
Also I know a sharkopod has been mentioned/ asked for on a few of the sites would it be possible for this? or a break down of possible in/ outs be possible with little over a week left in the window?
Anything you can share is always appreciated and understand if done have the time.
{Ed002's Note - It would depend on departures.}
21 Aug 2024 12:56:29
Could be quite a busy end to the window for us there are still a few they would like to move on and that could lead to some new additions, wouldn't be surprised to see 1/ 2 CM a LB and maybe a last minute deal for branthwaite if sales go well.
21 Aug 2024 13:38:43
If United signed Ederson instead of Ugarte, the style of play we see from Mainoo and Fernandes would be different.
Ederson is more of an 8 than a 6 which would demand greater discipline from Mainoo, he doesn't put in as much graft as Ugarte which would demand more dirty work from Mainoo.
Essentially, at United, Ederson could only work in a double pivot with Mainoo, but he's no Joao Neves and we'd be using two players each more suited to being box-to-box 8s in a setup that would stymie the best attributes of each of them while also drawing Bruno into the engine room again which would be pretty dense imo.
For the sake of Mainoo's potential and the freedom to allow Bruno to express himself, United must get a more defensive midfielder.
21 Aug 2024 14:20:47
Ork, from your analysis am I right in thinking Ederson is like Fred in terms of where and how he plays?
21 Aug 2024 14:27:45
ORK
Could not have put it better. Athletic has a great piece on Ugarte and highly recommend reading it. Edersen gets forward like Cas does atm for us and very different to Ugarte and more a back up for Mainoo in my eyes. Mainoo is better imo and still so young.
I can see us already planning ahead and no longer being reactive unless its forced on us i.e injuries.
21 Aug 2024 14:41:10
Casimero is following instructions I'd imagine.
Does eth want a traditional holding no6? Maybe that's part of what the delay is.
We know he would prefer fdj or a player of that ilk (like ederson) perhaps the manager wants something different to what you want and thinks different to how you think.
He sets his team up he wants to play a high line so the need for a traditional no6 is negated by that as he wants to play in the opposition half and push full backs into midfield for cover. That's what he had been implementing and we've been wide open a lot of the time.
Hard to know but it's about what the manager wants and how he wants to play not his fans think we should play.
21 Aug 2024 16:58:18
Chasing Ugarte all summer points to him wanting a traditional DM.
21 Aug 2024 17:55:34
If the Analogy is correct then if casemiro is staying we must sign Ugarte. The taught of signing Ederson now puts more pressure om Mainoo.
We get Ugarte and for the season ahead he will show Mainoo how to do his job then next season we have depth for the DM and if Ederson available Next season and Casemiro leaves
We Sign Ederson and we have quite a team ON PAPER/!
THE WAY THE TEAM play due to SOME* lazy gits means we may beed Ederson in January.
21 Aug 2024 19:06:35
mdb
I'd say yes, but just a bigger version who's little better - imo.
Ken
The reason United want Ugarte is Mainoo, it's as simple as that.
Before last season, Mainoo's potential hadn't delivered anything beyond hype and, therefore, couldn't be looked upon as a stable condition by which to determine the type of midfielder the club should have been trying for - hence the De Jong chase and the subsequent acquisition of Casemiro.
I mean, it's not like the club weren't viewing De Jong and Casemiro as deep-lying playmakers at all - the purchase of Mount as an intended 8 proves that the collective thought process was to get a player in who can provide a defensive shield.
Let's not pretend that De Jong can't put himself about and do the dirty work, but he would have been sought as an 8ish 6 with the requirement focused on defensive protection, if that makes sense.
However, Mainoo's delivery of potential and the rate at which it's flourishing dictate the need for a midfield partner who's far more of a 6 than an 8 - especially if United are to implement a more fluid system out wide.
Ultimately, I don't think Ugarte is a Keane or Vieira, I don't think he's a Kante or a Mascherano, but he's the best option available for the definition of midfielder the club needs ATM.
The next couple of years are crucial for the sensible building of a squad capable of challenging, but we're already still so far away that we need to start by adding at least as many solid and dependable performers as exciting talents.
In a couple of years, Mainoo will have developed into a world-class baller and will likely have fine-tuned his defensive game more which might well determine focus on a player different to Ugarte, but we're not yet at the table that offers the realistic prospect of actually getting players of the calibre of De Jong.
Remember, Arsenal began their recent return to challenging with Partey while Klopp's Liverpool began with Can - both pretty similar players to Ugarte.
Are we really any better than 2015/ 16 Liverpool or 2020/ 21 Arsenal?
21 Aug 2024 20:32:29
Ork it's a traditional 6 I'd like to see us sign for sure and I agree that the emergence of mainoo has led to that.
I hope we get a real good one. I've never seen urate play I suspect most have not either but he comes in with a decent reputation and on the back of a good summer tournament.
I hope we get him and I'm sure he will make a big difference.
Hannibal ericksen hopefully off soon I'm still living in hope of sancho mctom and lindelof moving on too but I suspect 3 more outs might be a bridge too far.
21 Aug 2024 22:19:59
In the first Ten Hag team FDJ had a lot of freedom, Schone provided the shield but much more in the Carrick role than the manner of Ugarte.
His second team featured Alvarez as the shield, Gravenberch the nominal partner pushed into the left side of a diamond, Mazaroui would push forward to the right side of a diamond, Berghuis at the tip.
Alvarez was dominant defensively, much more so than Schone but was also quite progressive with ball.
I think Ugarte is firstly a concession to the physical combative nature of the Premier League, United will not dominate possession like Ajax.
Ugarte helps cover for some of the fragility of our defense and midfield especially alongside Mainoo whose skillset right now is in possession.
Ugarte allows him to be progressive with his full backs, this allows him multiple options at the top of pitch. This is what excites me about the signing, we may start to see so etching very different from the counter attacking style I felt he reverted through last year simply because the players at his disposable didn't suit anything else.
F.