13 Jun 2024 10:51:33
Morning Ed002,
Any truth to rumours about United swapping Greenwood for Juventus’s Gleison Bremer?
Or just usual click bait?
Thanks for any reply!
{Ed002's Note - Gleison Bremer (CB) Juventus do not want to sell and the player wishes to stay but the club need to raise funds which has led to his representatives testing the waters with Manchester United, Spurs and Chelsea to see if there is interest. He may well emerge as a first choice target for Spurs and Manchester United but Chelsea has a preferred option, but could turn to him as the are struggling to sign their primamry targets. Will cost perhaps €100M.
Mason Greenwood (F) Time to move on - offered to Lazio, Marseille and Atalanta but none seem to be biting. Turkey, perhaps with Mr Mourinho at Fenerbahce, or the Middle East might provide permanent options. Napoli, Atletico Madrid or Real Sociedad may offer an option but the fee will be too high for Getafe to buy, but they will try to find a creative solution or another loan. He is on the list of Michael Emenalo, but that may not suit the player. Agent wants him to move to Italy for a fresh start and has suggested to Juventus that they offer an exchange for Chiesa. Juventus will want to keep transactions clean and may be willing to pay €20M or so.}
13 Jun 2024 11:41:12
Thank you for your swift and detailed response Ed002!
Bit of a difference in respective valuations so can’t see swap happening….
{Ed002's Note - I would agree.}
13 Jun 2024 14:31:50
I think the difference in valuations has always been our issue when it comes to selling players.
Because we pay high fees AND high wages we have to sell for a certain price to avoid taking a big financial hit.
As is my understanding when we sell a player unless the buying club takes on their wages in full the club still have to pay the difference in most cases (unless the player will forgo what they are owed just to leave) .
If we sell Antony for example, he has three years left on his deal of 200k per week. That's 31.2m in wages he is owed. While there is still around 34.4m left of his fee to amortised.
If a buying club is only prepared to pay him 100k per week (and to be honest who'd be prepared to pay him that? ) then that means he'll get 15.6m over the next 3 years. Meaning he misses out on a further 15.6m which he'd get at United. Manchester United would need to pay him that to make up the difference.
Which means to break even United would need to sell him for a bare minimum of 50m (34.4m fee to be amortised + 15.6m difference in wages) . Anything less and United take a loss, and that's if someone would pay him 100k a week. If they offer less in wages we'll have to pick up the difference.
No one will pay that for him. So the decision is whether it's better to keep Antony in the squad, or take a financial loss which means we probably can't afford to replace him.
It's the same with Casemiro and his monster wages. Meaning we are probably better off selling to Saudi for a smaller fee but with them taking all the wages then selling for a larger fee to a European club who'll only pay half his wages.
In terms of Greenwood his wages aren't too high, he might be more inclined to take a slight loss to just move on and we have no fee to amortise. So it's purely profit.
However, he is one of the fee saleable assets we have, and even that is limited due to him being considered "damaged goods". Without the arrest and everything that followed he'd be a 70-100m player right now. What he's worth and what the club can get will not be the same as buying clubs know United need to sell more than they need to buy. So unfortunately for us it will have to be United to take the hit and sell for less than they would like to move him on. Especially as every year this drags on his contract dwindles along with his value. United's best chance is to sell for a smaller fee to a "smaller" club but included a sell on clause. Sell him to a Getafe sized club where he can develop and hopefully attract the attention of a top European side who'll pay a large fee for him of which we get a percentage. Rather than sell him to a Juventus for a larger fee, even with a sell on clause, as few teams will buy him for a big fee from a club like Juventus.
13 Jun 2024 15:53:38
I guess Rashy is still technically our most valuable asset, although I wonder what prime Garnacho would fetch these days.
We are lumbered with these players on longer contracts. Hopefully there's now going to be some kind of wage structure in place.
13 Jun 2024 17:05:59
If €20m is the most we can get for Greenwood then I’d rather we kept him. It would cost us four or five times that amount to sign a player of his quality. We spent €80m on Antony, and he’s not fit to clean Greenwood’s boots.
13 Jun 2024 18:03:26
redseven, selling Greenwood has nothing to do with his ability. He needs to move on for the best of both the club and the player. Now its just about getting the best deal for the club.
13 Jun 2024 18:11:47
Antony = £86m
Mitoma = £2.5m
Someone should go to jail over that.
13 Jun 2024 19:09:08
Shappy. I don’t think that letting one of our best players go for a fraction of what he’s worth is what’s best for the club and I don’t think that being sent off to another country where he doesn’t speak the language is what’s best for a 22 year-old with clear behavioral issues (nor his partner, who will once again be isolated from all of her friends and family) .
13 Jun 2024 19:53:29
I imagine Greenwood’s italian is stronger than tevez’s english was lol.
14 Jun 2024 06:26:13
Redseven, he's only worth what another club will pay for him. If 20m is that figure then he's worth 20m.
As for what is best for him, I can't imagine that is the absolute dog's abuse he'd get in every away ground in England, or the constant social media campaigns against him, or the print media articles putting every aspect of his and his young families life under the microscope on a weekly basis, etc etc.
We got a small glimpse of what to expect last summer when the club made him available for selection again and he was front page of every tabloid, and trending on social media, we had charities coming out and lambasting the decision and even politicians.
Do you think that is best for him, his partner or their child?
Many players play in countries where they don't speak the language. I absolutely have reservations over her being potentially isolated in a foreign country with a man who has been abusive in the past. Yet for right or for wrong she has chosen to stay with him and even have a child with him. She is now tied to him through that child forever.
Hopefully he is able to access the help he needs in other countries, I don't think the UK has a monopoly on therapists, so he should be able to.
14 Jun 2024 07:04:24
€20m may be what other clubs are willing to pay for him, but he’s worth a lot more than €20m to us. As per one of my previous posts, replacing him with a player of equal quality will cost us three or four times that amount.
As for the abuse, he’s going to get that wherever he goes, as we saw during his time in Spain. He’ll probably get some racist abuse thrown in there too if he goes to Italy, if their track record is anything to go by.
Ultimately, abuse is something that he’s just going to have to learn to live with. At least in the UK, though, there is a support structure in place for him and (more importantly) his young family.
14 Jun 2024 09:53:52
Is he worth more than 20m to us? If having him in the squad creates a negative media storm around the club next season that distracts the players, effects performances and ultimately results in finishing outside of the top four would you say he was worth keeping then?
As for the abuse if you can't appreciate that it would be significantly worse in the UK then your mistaken. Also the UK has a habit of targeting those around their targets as well. In Europe most abuse will be restricted to chants in stadiums. Not ideal but something footballers have to learn to deal with.
In the UK it's social media, it's at the supermarket, in a restaurant, at a petrol station, outside your kids school gates. They try to get quotes from friends, family and loved ones. His partner will be asked if he's apologised, why she's forgiven him, maybe be harassed that she's endangering her child by staying with an abusive man.
He has to take that into consideration in terms of whether he wants to stay playing in the UK. Especially at a club like United that increases that media focus 100x.
Apparently he has asked his agent to find him a club in Spain or Italy, that suggests that he doesn't want to return and play in the UK.
15 Jun 2024 09:18:31
Greenwood should 100% stay. It is silly how everyone knows better than those who are actually involved.
If Greenwood himself would want to stay and can handle the "noise", then we should keep him. Everything comes to an end, and so would the crowd noises. In a year or so, it will be an old story and a new "scandal" will appear.
16 Jun 2024 11:29:41
Trololo, it's funny how you know better than the player, the agent, his family and the club. Who all feel it's best for him to move on and have spent nearly a year exploring various moves away.
16 Jun 2024 15:10:21
Because of the fans, Shappy, and you know it. I'm pretty sure he wanted to stay, but cant, because of the so called "fans".