12 Jun 2024 15:52:47
Hi Ed002
What was the reason that United chose to persist with Ten Hag?
Will he still have major voice on transfers or would he need to accommodate to the new structure?
Finally is any contract extension planned for Ten Hag?
Thanks in advance.
{Ed002's Note - I have no idea about contract extensions but others they spoke to were not interested in the job. See what happens after the Euros.}
12 Jun 2024 17:24:19
If a manager became available after the euros would the club consider changing manager ?
{Ed002's Note - It is not quite as simple as that.}
13 Jun 2024 07:50:35
I can understand keeping him on a year. Perplexed by the 2-year extension.
If as rumours are circulating he still has demands for transfer and tactical control before signing then it’s a disaster if the club cave on these. He’s shown questionable ability in both areas. In particular tactical nous against a low block which for me is why we won’t get top-4.
I’m curious Eds if any of you have the time. Did Wilcox have any influence on tactics for Cup Final? The switch to a false nine the game before seems to be credited to him in some quarters.
{Ed002's Note - I really don't know.}
13 Jun 2024 09:55:51
I think it's fairly simple, the club have done their due diligence, they have assessed the situation. Sounded out potential candidates and from the options they have EtH is the best man available right now.
He hasn't done a bad job, two trophies in two years, especially under the circumstances is actually a great return. Only Jose managed better, and he arguably had a better squad and definitely more favourable conditions.
The club will have said their expectations to EtH and he will know what is expected of him and his role at the club.
The new contract could be to formalise his new role, possibly with changes to what was in his previous agreement. If this means EtH gives up certain powers or control I'd expect he'll be compensated for that in some way.
The main reason for the contract though is to put to bed speculation and to try and create an environment where the club can be successful. They have a one year option so in theory he has two year left on his deal, so there is no need to extend from that perspective. Yet if they just left it as it was and then maybe looked to either activate the extension during the first half of next season then all the speculation around the manager would continue and would make his job more difficult.
By giving him a new contract, their contract, they are publicly backing the manager. Which should for the most part put all the speculation to bed and allow the team to focus on performances on the pitch. With the added bonus of maybe having a contract that outlines the managers role within the new set up.
They don't really have much of a choice but to give him a new contract to be honest. Anything less would just see a continuation of the media BS, that has more then likely had a negative effect on the team in the final few months of this season, roll on into next season.
It'll probably be a two year deal with a one year option, taking him to 2026 (2027 with the one year option) . Which is effectively the same two years he has now as the club would absolutely have to activate the one year option (which would take him to 2026 anyway) . As they can't go into next season with the manager out of contract at the end of the season.
Personally I think EtH is a good manager, he has led the club well during a very difficult time, installed discipline, developed young players, improved most players, and has shown tactical acumen.
Is he perfect? No of course not. His main flaws are that some of his transfer signings haven't been great (Antony, Casemiro being the main two) . Although to be fair in context the spending has been oddly constrained with him making more loan signings in two years than SAF made in 27 years. While given the clubs recent history in transfers over the past decade can anyone blame him for wanting control over the signings? Only Bruno can be called a total success in 10 year prior EtH taking over, with maybe Dalot joining him. While I'd say Martinez and Højlund look nailed on successes. Mount if he can stay fit should be a success. While given the fees paid Malacia, Evans and Eriksen haven't been bad signings. You could easily make a case that on balance the permanent signings since EtH joined have been better than the ones made in the near 10 years before him. Although to be fair that's a very low bar.
There has also been rumours that he can be difficult to get on with or distant. If true that's obviously not great, but they are just rumours so that might not be accurate. Certainly he and the players seemed to have a good relationship when celebrating the FA cup win. Maybe it's true, maybe its overstated, or maybe he isn't as open and friendly when things aren't going well as these rumours weren't about during his first season.
The final possible flaw could be in terms of fitness training. Without knowing what has been happening or why it's difficult to assess. But there have been a lot of injuries this year, and a few murmurs that some players aren't happy with the demands. Firstly, if the players aren't prepared to work hard then they aren't the right players for our club. Secondly, this very much depends on what the plan is, if the focus is to try and build up the squads stamina and resilience to play a more physically demanding style then the increase in training intensity is a requirement. As long as this is done with expert input and in line with the most recent science then it's just one of those things we have to accept. If it's not based on good science or without purpose then it's a problem.
Which is why I've said it's only a possible flaw as we don't know the context of it. Also there is a good chance that the increase in injuries is less linked to the club and more linked to the peculiar circumstances caused by having a mid season world cup last year and the knock on effects of players playing back to back international tournaments along with club football and no real break or recovery time. After all we are not the only club to see a big spike in injuries this season, with there being around 28% more player injuries this season across Europe's top 5 leagues.
In balance EtH has done some things well and other things not so well. Depending on his role and the structure put in place by the club many of his potential flaws could be mitigated. If he has less control over transfers for example or if the club bring in a dedicated fitness team to plan training schedules. Then two of the three potential flaws are less influential.
Likewise I'd have expected the club review to assess everything and have a far better idea of the context in which the manager has been working and a better idea about the reasoning behind certain decisions.
If after all that they think EtH is the best man available for next season then who are we to argue. After all they are making that decision with far more knowledge and understanding than we have.
Now is the time to do our job and get behind the manager, and get behind the club and show them support. Otherwise can we really call ourselves supporters?
What I'm interested to see is what tactical evolution we make next season. EtH has shown good tactically flexibility in his first season. Changing things after the first couple of games. Then this season he seemed to change things and be more stubborn with his tactics. Now was that because he wanted to imprint a specific style? Or was that due to him wanting to limit the constant changing of tactics when there was already constant change due to injuries. Was he just trying to limit the demands on players who were already stretched.
It'll be interesting to see what we get next season, especially as you'd assume that the club have said they will want a specific style of play, and you'd assume that EtH must be willing to adapt to that (or it aligns with his preferred style) for him to be staying as manager.
13 Jun 2024 19:45:16
I think we all agree that the right people are in place in the football hierarchy now.
If they have assessed EtH and consider he is the best way forward for the club, then who are we to argue.
13 Jun 2024 21:18:21
Exactly grim.
Let's see how the news of Mason staying goes down.
13 Jun 2024 21:55:46
They have to prove they are the right people first same as everyone else does, they don't get crowned until they have earned it.
14 Jun 2024 00:26:10
Very well elaborated and understandable context Shappy. I was going to say that our defence injuries are due to the amount of forward and tracking back runs they have to do. It would make sense because AG and Rashford never had those injuries. The demand on the muscles to canter out of the box, pass to midfield. and then scurry to defend maybe?
14 Jun 2024 10:05:29
Reddevilfan, defenders tend to pick up more injuries as their role is more physically demanding. All the jumping for headers is hard on their back, knees and ankles. They tend to take more impacts during a game, they also have to change direction quickly when tracking forwards which with them typically being bigger means more weight going through those joints when they quickly change direction.
The other position that tends to pick up a far few injuries are quick forwards who rely on bursts of pace. They tend to end up with hamstring injuries from the quick sprints or impact injuries from late tackles.
Maybe the lack of cover in front of our defence has exasperated the injury issues. Yet it seems more like poor medical advice has been a big factor. With Malacia's knee surgery going wrong first time, and both Martinez and Shaw being rushed back and then breaking down injured again. While in truth both Shaw and Varane are pretty injury prone, and Evans is at an age where injuries are more common. I'd say only Lindelof and AWB's injuries are ones I'd wonder about.
The others make sense or we know what happened.