Manchester United banter 5

25 Nov 2025 13:20:24
Last night is exactly why I wasn’t gloating over Liverpool’s decline. They’re struggling, but we are not on an upwards trajectory.

The system seems to be entirely focused on exploiting a high press. If teams push up and attack, we can score on the break. However, against a deep sitting team, we have nothing.

Last night was the familiar pattern of shifting the ball from side to side, and looking to cross into the box. The problem is that there are never enough players looking to get on the end of crosses. It’s rinse and repeat with no other ideas.

Let’s be honest, the ref gave us a huge advantage, and we still didn’t even cause Everton problems. All they had to do was stay compact. No great strategy or plan to stifle us because we’re just that easy to play against.

As for Amorim, last night showed all the, “the system is adaptable, ” arguments for the nonsense it is. Despite having an extra man and needing to score, he refused to try anything different. Not an extra body in midfield. Not bringing on the young lad to play as an actual striker. Nothing. Just tottering up the pitch to play the ball slowly around their box.

All the same issues remain. Every team should know how to win against us, and I still don’t see anyway that this rigid system gets us close to competing,

25 Nov 2025 15:13:28
I think the ball coming in from the wingbacks on either side was appalling. against teams that sit in you need a lot more quality of final ball and passing.

25 Nov 2025 15:51:18
I don’t get all these system comments we changed just about everything we could in the 2nd half (have you seen our bench) unless you believe Lacy was the saviour we needed. If anything we’d too many players upfront for the last 25 mins. Just zero quality. We needed 9 players end of last season we got 3 and 2 are injured. Dereliction of duty from Ineos.

We are a very poor side any manager/formation. The big problem is where is the money coming from cause with the bench we have and not every signing always working out we still need 9 players and more. The entire senior leadership team (Bruno etc) need to be gone in the summer. Not one of them has anything of value for the future of the club.

25 Nov 2025 16:39:48
Such a typical performance for this squad. You think they've turned a corner and then fall straight back into old habits. I thought Shaw and Dalot were very poor. The midfield was terrible, it lacks legs, it lacks bite in the tackle and we just can't break teams down when they play that low block so got pushed to the wide channels. Bruno was to blame for the goal, the most half arsed attempt to tackle and just let him run and shoot. Yet again stupid longshots from outside the box rather than looking for the pass. 25 shots on goal, only 6 shots on target.

The fact there wasn't a striker on the bench is concerning, we were always a Sesko injury away from having a problem.

25 Nov 2025 16:54:24
The manager had the opportunity to play with a back 4, add an extra body in midfield, play Bruno higher, or even bring on a striker. He did none of this, and stuck with a back 3 because it’s the system. Bringing on Dalot in a like for like change illustrated this.

We needed something different, that either gave more scoring threat in the box or more penetration through the middle. Amorim simply won’t change the overarching system, even when it clearly isn’t working.

25 Nov 2025 17:34:06
There wasn’t just a lack of creativity, whenever the ball was out wide with Amad or Mbuemo, all the attacking players were stood stock still in the box just waiting for some magic. No runs, no offers for 1-2 basically just mannequins occupying space to perhaps get on the end of a cross or loose ball from a shot.

{Ed025's Note - i agree Fuser..

25 Nov 2025 18:18:59
I can be honest I dislike 5 at the back. It’s a waste of players and skews defensive.

I will be forever Amorim out as consequence. So I’m fairly biased.

5 at the back at home against 10 man Everton? Well dressed, nice hair, self critical charm and a bit of charisma goes a long way apparently.

41% win rate, is pathetic. It needs saying. Amorim has opportunities to try different formations and chooses not to. He rejects youth and reduces Bruno’s impact, (play your best player close to goal further away from the goal ?), all to accommodate his system, that is clearly not working.

At some point people will realise the club have compromised values and identity while backing a manager with money and selling academy graduates. All for a “system”.

This is Ragnick levels of dross - another canny chatter.

Emperors new clothes. We beat a poor Liverpool, followed by a good performance against Brighton but then a slow tail off to here with spots of positivity or resilience.

He’s a nice fella but it’s not good enough and he should go. Liverpool are ready to sack an EPL winning manager, we’re persisting with this.

I’d genuinely say a caretaker manager would achieve a higher win rate.

25 Nov 2025 10:17:10
Few points on last night:

1.) I don't think I have ever seen a manager wedded to a specific formation but the style of play is flexible. Credit to Amorim we have changed this year and are playing the ball long more, playing to Lammens and Seskos strengths. But the lack of willingness to change the formation last night just screamed of irrational stubbornness. People say the formation is just a way to line the players up at kick off and then everyone moves about but i didn't see too much movement or changing positions last night, it felt like Shaw/Dalot and Yoro/De Ligt were both playing the same positons last night lol.

2.) I think people were conned a bit with this "1 game a week" logic. The majority of teams in the league play 1 game a week because they are not very good. there's only been a couple of teams who have 1 game a week counts as any advantage (Contes chelsea title winning team and Rodgers Liverpool title challenging team) . I think we fall into the former camp where any additional time on the training ground is not making any difference.

3.) I am not his biggest fan and think he is over rated but Bruno F is magic in and around the box and last night i hardly saw him there and he was playing way too deep. With both sekso and cunha out, surely the logical move is to play Bruno F higher up and stick Mainoo next to Casemiro.

25 Nov 2025 13:08:59
We are just a team in waiting until bruno, casemiro, shaw, dalot, mcguire are all gone. Madness how married to these players amorim is. But he will learn like many before him. Maybe it was just too much for one manager to do all at once? Maybe we need to next guy to rip the remaining bandaid off.

He did a lot to push us forward, by removing the first half of a broken squad. But he still has these players as his leadership team and he still has bruno as captain in midfield. The result is games like last night.

25 Nov 2025 13:24:48
Bruno shouldn't be playing in a two man midfield.
We all kow that he's a much better player when he is played further forward. It's like fitting round pegs in square holes. If you're going to play Bruno then play him in his corrrect position.


We are absolutely desperate for two proper central midfielders, even when Everton were down to 10 men they were still exposing the central midfield areas.

25 Nov 2025 09:49:04
For the first time I'm going to criticise Amorim.

His subs and tactics when they went down to 10 men, baffled me. We didn't need an extra defender when they were playing with one up top. Move Shaw to LB instead of bringing on Dalot who offers nothing, and get an extra body in higher up the pitch.

Plus, playing two defenders as attacking wing backs cost us when they got into attacking positions. They just didn't have the skill or nous to capitalise when we got anywhere near the 18 yard box.

I'd also question starting a guy up top who's not played all season, instead of going with Mbuemo up front. Anyone who's ever played Football Manager knows you never start a player who's not match fit. It never works! ?

Easy with hindsight, I know, and the players lack of intensity was also a big factor, but I think this was a game and a situation where the manager's refusal to stray from his beloved system, has cost us.

25 Nov 2025 13:17:35
I agree Stevie. Playing at home, against 10 men should have been a slam dunk, but instead we were passive, the Manager did not take the bull by the horns. If ever there was a game to change formation, this was it, but no.

3 good wins, followed by 2 dodgy draws, and then last night, very very disappointing.

25 Nov 2025 14:08:37
I think he was a little hamstrung by the players available, the bench didn’t look great from the start with only really Mount who could change anything in an attacking sense as he’s too scared to put Lacey on. He should have had Obi on the bench or at least another forward player. We needed a left sided player to come on as Dorgu was terrible, he had Malacia on the bench but chose to bring on Dalot, who weirdly did exactly the same as he always does, absolutely nothing. So why have Malacia and Lacey on the bench if he’s not willing to bring them on? Pointless.

His decisions and the results will be the reason why he fails, his subs are pathetic, I understand his system against 11 men, get the players all learning it, bring in better wing backs and a midfield and we will improve, but against 10 men with Everton playing a striker without a premier league goal to have 3 at the back was pathetic and a sackable offence for me.

Not that it would have made a difference as we could have played all night but Everton spent the whole 2nd half time wasting and the ref totally ignored it. If 14 minutes had been added on I don’t think anyone could have been annoyed or surprised, yet he added on 4. Their subs took that alone, so that's to suggest that Everton didn’t time waste at all in the 2nd half? Absolutely pathetic refereeing as always.

25 Nov 2025 07:39:04
{Ed's Note - SamiKewell has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool FC Team Issues and Misjudged Expectations

25 Nov 2025 05:59:54
Another one of those false dawns. Just when we had an opportunity to go into 5h place and to stake a claim on a European place, we lose at home to a mediocre 10 man team. A weak tackle by Yoro followed by a weak attempt to stop a shot that might have been saved - the only one on target - followed by a complete failure in front of goal. It's not like we didn't create opportunities. Zirkzee had 3 excellent header chances. 23 (6) shots v 2 (1). At least we dominated. Excellent game by Pickford combined with terrible marksmanship. Zirkzee, showed why he is too slow and lacks the first touch necessary to succeed in the EPL. Bruno was particularly uninspiring. Nor for the first time, when he's needed the most, when he has an opportunity to lead by example, he comes up short. Yesterday reminded me of the Europa cup final when he also simply failed to inspire.

Without Cunha, Amorim got it completely wrong initially axing the partnership between Amad and Mbuemo and bringing in Zirkzee who frankly has never been good enough even when he was not hampered by lack of first team appearances due to injury. What was he thinking? Was he trying to outwit David Moyes? In the end though the statistics tell the story. This was a repeat of last years' lows. Total lack of conviction undid the domination. A pretty pusillanimous performance by every member of the team. Just as we were reveling in the schadenfreude of City and Liverpool's weekend losses.

25 Nov 2025 07:44:15
Maze, I don't disagree with your player assessment.
I'm not sure placing blame on Amorim is justified, such was the abysmal showing, even from the subs.
From my side, not throwing an unknown like Lacey into the equation was his biggest fault.
We are too predictable. We desperately need fresh faces to accelerate the exit of a few.

25 Nov 2025 07:58:34
It was an utter $h1t show. Appalling complacency. Walkball at its most pathetic level. False dawn? Lamentable.

25 Nov 2025 09:40:58
Even if we had won the game tonight, I don't enjoy watching this team. I am watching Utd since '85 and I always love watching attacking wingers and we have always had that in our team. I know football evolves but this is not for me.

25 Nov 2025 10:20:08
Fizz 100 percent right mate, I was worried before the match, given our inability to beat a very poor Spurs team.

I'm feeling this morning very disappointed but certainly not surprised.

Everton knew how we would setup, how we would stick to plan A and how and where to target us. 5 at the back against 10 men, Dorgu off for another defender, absolutely no fluidity, no change of system no nothing.

Rant over and on to Palace, let's hope for a good reaction to last night abysmal performance.

25 Nov 2025 01:58:19
Oh how we missed Cunha last night.
Certain players lack desire, hunger and the mental strength to churn out results.
We had the opportunity to get top 4/5 after others faltered.
Rather than take that opportunity, we laboured through the motions, even against 10men.

For me, after that abject performance, the following players hammered the final nail in their coffin.
Dorgu, Mazraoui, Amad, Zirkzee, Bruno, Shaw, Mount, Dalot.

Mainoo came on and at least had the desire to try and change the game, the others kept going backwards, throwing arms in the air, not tracking back etc etc.

If nothing else, this performance proved that we are still 6 (at least) players away from competing week in, week out.

I hope it was a blip, I hope Cunha comes back and the intensity is there again, but it should be running through the entire team, and after that it is evident it isn't.

Cut our losses, move forward.

25 Nov 2025 08:28:37
Surely you can't think that Amad and Mount - who have been two of our best players this season have put the nail in their coffin? Incidentally they are two of the players who actually run and work for the team.

Zirkzee, Dorgu and Dalot I completely agree with.

25 Nov 2025 18:25:05
I get you on Dalot but why bring him on at LwB against 10? It’s not even fair on him.

Same with a few really they just not good at what they’re being asked to do.

Mount is supposedly a coach’s dream and intelligent but he looks lost. It says a lot.

26 Nov 2025 09:14:08
JD, mount has not been available for most of his time, he was a bad purchase and we should cut him loose.

Amad is not a WB and is too lightweight. He throws his arms up more than Bruno, doesn't pass when he should, tries to walk the ball through a low block etc etc etc. he annoys me more than any other player in our squad, and that's saying something.

24 Nov 2025 18:30:42
Win, Lose or Draw tonight. I just hope we continue to see the things that we have been able to get behind over the last few games.

If we do lose, at least we see Everton go above Liverpool. As I have said before, I live behind enemy lines and it'd be great for the city ?.

24 Nov 2025 21:59:20
U got your wish…. the second part I mean lol.

24 Nov 2025 22:01:26
Well ot was plain. awful. can't beat 10 men in 80 minutes is embarrassing. Will not change, 3 at back to the end is absolutely unbelievable. and palace next. Another battle towards bottom incoming. at least try and play a midfielder.

24 Nov 2025 22:06:38
That was about as spineless as it gets tonight.

24 Nov 2025 22:49:25
Seems crazy but that could be the beginning of the end for RA. His first half was pitiful.
Palace could very easily see us 2 points from 12 which is around last season form.
Swiftly followed by afcon. Does highlight though how poor our squad is.

Sir Jim is a fool if he thinks he can challenge for Europe without reinforcements but apparently we’ve no money.
The sheer lack of effort or pride or anything from the captain down is the most gutting.

24 Nov 2025 23:05:59
Our issue is that the whole left side is a waste of time. Licha back in. Play Shaw at LWB because Dalot and Dorgu are dreadful there. Cunha was badly missed tonight.

24 Nov 2025 23:40:45
Dalot is dreadful anywhere with dorgu not far behind. We play a system predicated on wing backs providing for our forwards and amad aside all our options are total crap.

24 Nov 2025 23:45:10
Shaw doesn't have the legs and is injury prone. More importantlt we still need two top midfielders. One defensive and one attacking. The latter to take the weight of being creative off Bruno who can't always provide the i.

24 Nov 2025 23:59:07
Pathetic. Hopefully Gana went into our changing room and slapped every one of them.

25 Nov 2025 11:07:46
Salford7 I get that Shaw is injury prone but he's played a good few games now. He isn't really going to play at LCB with Licha back. And we're basically playing with 10 with Dorgu and Dalot out left.

He is our only option there. And if he can't play there then a LWB is our highest priority above the midfielders. We can only attack down one side of the pitch. It's insane.

23 Nov 2025 14:21:18
Big clubs spend huge amounts of money for a player to come in and create records and achieve things other's can not.

Case in point being Alexander Isak, £125m for a world class striker, he was going to propel Liverpool to dizzying new heights. Well, in fairness he may well go on to score plenty, but he has already managed to equal a 119 year old record!

Seemingly he is the first person since the inimitable Percy Saul in 1906 to lose their first 4 league games, for Liverpool, where they have been a starter.

You can but congratulate such an achievement and wish him luck in continuing the run!

23 Nov 2025 16:00:50
He has had no pre season then got injured and looks well off the pace.
I think he has to try and play him into match fitness and put up with it until he is back up to 100%.
He looks like a really good player to me but I think issak is the least if their worries.


Ekitike imo has done well and looks better so far than any of goykeres sesko issak delap etc of the big club signings.

24 Nov 2025 12:49:43
Shout out to Woltemade too. Not comparable to an in-form Isak, but right here, right now, Newcastle must be laughing!

24 Nov 2025 13:45:23
Isaak is a quality player, there's no doubt about that, top scorer last season, probably in top 3 players of the season so understandable why Liverpool chased him.

The question mark over him, IMO would be his character which we only got to see during the summer transfer window and the whole handling of it by himself and his team. Now whether he was poorly advised or he threw his toys out the pram, his behaviour was not what you'd want from a top professional, he was contracted until 2028 with Newcastle so should have got his head down and worked hard preparing for a season with Newcastle but hoping for his transfer to Liverpool.

That's my only criticism of him and what would have raised a few concerns for me. What happens if he gets into form and Real Madrid coming knocking? Do you want that character around the club? Guhei was the model pro of how to behave but sadly I feel more players would act like Isaac than Guhei.

The longer Isaac's poor form goes on, the harder and more pressure on him will increase and the only way out of this is him getting his head down and working hard. Sadly for him, this would be a lot easier if Liverpool were playing well. But he is a quality player and I think he will score loads for Liverpool when he gets going, unfortunately.

24 Nov 2025 16:47:27
Guhei is the only player this summer that didn't get what he wanted or deserved. All those who put pressure on their clubs got their movement which is not as it should be.

23 Nov 2025 11:38:26
Both City and Liverpool losing, awesome. The League is weaker this year with a lot of teams beating each other, and we are stronger than last year, that combination opens up possibilities.

Tomorrow will be an interesting test, and a win propels us the table, I wonder if the players realise that, or if it is simply 1 game at a time.

I just want to see urgency and pace, and a sign we are up for it. Amorim has hinted that intensity has been the issue which feels like a relatively easy fix. There have been some encouraging signs, we are scoring a lot more, but conceding too many, I am intrigued to see how we progress.

If we do win we will be 5th or 6th, I didn't see that a couple of months ago. Of course if we lose.

23 Nov 2025 12:26:12
It’s great for us ?

I’m sure the players and manager can sense the opportunity. I hope the board sense it too. Get the cheque book out and sort CM in January. £160M on Wharton and Anderson and we’re in a fantastic position.

It also a provides Amorim a fair platform to assess him against.

23 Nov 2025 13:03:33
Good results so far. Fingers crossed we can keep building

We have been good at home so I'm hoping another 3 points are on the way.

I think we have a decent run of fixtures, after our difficult run so far. I'm very optimistic that we will be in the mix for the top 4 come Christmas.

And as fergie would say, the season starts again on January 1st.

24 Nov 2025 11:56:49
The league is weaker? I don't think so i'd say the overtake standard of the league is stronger than before. This makes it more competitive there is fewer teams that you can count on winning 3 points against easily. Big improvement in the league depth of quality imo.

22 Nov 2025 20:40:13
Liverpool page is pure cinema ???.

23 Nov 2025 07:52:21
???.

23 Nov 2025 10:31:51
I want to meet the guy who found the magic lamp and his first wish was "Make Liverpool and United's fortunes swap", and shake his hand. Bravo sir ?.

23 Nov 2025 12:27:31
It’s nicely reassuring that we’re not alone in being traumatised by our club.

Shame Citeh have no fans, their page would be a curiosity.

23 Nov 2025 14:15:41
I’m not gloating too much.

They have the makings of a good side, it’s more a case that they’ve parts that don’t fit. Last season nothing was expected and Slot found a way to work with what he had. Basically tinkered with what Klopp left him, and won the league without anyone really pressing them.

This time round he wanted to shape his side, and I don’t see what he’s aiming for. Felt like they bought players without thinking about building upon what worked last season. Wirtz is taking a lot of flack, but the midfield two isn’t a strong enough base for a playmaker like him to shine. Frimpong Is the biggest head scratcher. Trent was a key player because his passing range allowed the front players to get in behind. Frimpong is worse defensively, and looks to get onto the end of passes, rather than delivering them. The two strikers aren’t getting service, and the new lb is struggling to make the step up.

For me, this is a lesson on sticking with what worked, and not ripping everything up just to prove it’s your team now. The fact that they didn’t buy any centre backs is damning. I would be looking to shore up the spine of the team after Christmas. Bringing in a quality cb, and going back to the midfield three of last season. Put Wirtz on the left until you have players that can give him a platform to dictate from the middle.

Can’t see Slot lasting much longer though. Think this is what ed001 has been saying too. Very difficult to get players to buy into your system when it’s clearly inferior to what helped you win last year.