20 Apr 2025 19:26:07
Does anyone actually like the 5221?
20 Apr 2025 19:48:53
Nope.
No progress on the pitch, become worse if anything.
Nit sure if the stat is correct but apparently since joining the prem, the wolves manager has gained 16 more points than amorim. Beating him home and away, playing the same formation.
If that is correct it is shocking.
I just don't see the hype around amorim. He should be doing better.
20 Apr 2025 19:54:32
Amorim.
20 Apr 2025 20:27:20
Wolves have a lot of players who fit that system to be fair. They also have a squad that's much better than their position suggests, with some very good players in Cunha, Andre, Gomes to name a few.
It's very hard to judge Amorim until he gets to assemble his own squad.
20 Apr 2025 21:05:07
I understand results are the most important thing but if you don't see why sometimes one step backwards for two steps forward is the right approach I can't help you. Our attack is hopeless but there are multiple reasons to expect us to be considerably better with a few key recruitments. We've half a really good side playing with half a terrible side right now. This year is now about Europa League and preparing players that will be around for next year.
20 Apr 2025 21:38:03
We were by far the better the team and we created plenty opportunities to win. Hojlund is hopeless. Could have had 3. He's always late and easy to mark. He also had a great opportunity to slide the ball across the penalty area on a break to an open player but decided to go it alone. Chance squandered. Everyone's shooting was abysmal. Mount missed two, Fernadez one. The only forward who had a decent game was Garnacho who was a lot less selfish and provided some great passes into the area. The system was not the problem. With a back 3 of Mazraoui, Lindelof and Fredricson we restricted Wolves to 4 shots of which 2 were on target. Our players simply failed to execute in the final moment. Basically the same problem we've had all season. You can't blame the manager for the dross he inherited.
21 Apr 2025 00:00:28
Where is the 5221. I can clearly 522 but for the life of me I am missing the 1.
21 Apr 2025 07:27:13
Happy with the formation here and happy with Amorim.
In my book he had a completely free hit up until the opening of the summer transfer window when he joined.
Next season we can judge him. Hopefully with the likes of Osimhen and Cunha on board!
21 Apr 2025 08:06:19
If we had players who could score maybe the system would work better.
21 Apr 2025 08:29:59
Doesn’t matter what formation you play with the (experienced) strikers we have.
21 Apr 2025 09:30:32
Obviously it helps having a centre forward who can score, but goals need to come from the whole team.
Very few Utd players look capable of scoring a goal even when it's on a plate.
Mount missed a couple of sitters yesterday. Garnacho fluffed 1 on 1 with the keeper against Lyon. Dorgu seems incapable of getting a shot on target. I don't think Yoro knows the opposition can also concede. I could go on.
21 Apr 2025 10:51:55
Nothing I've seen has convinced me of the formation, and there's clearly a reason none of the top PL teams play it.
As for Amorim, the jury's still out for me, but as someone said he has a free hit until the summer and I hope he comes good.
A good coach should be able to improve all players that are willing to improve regardless if they fit the system. So far the only player who looks to have improved is Bruno.
21 Apr 2025 11:26:40
Our attackers are truly awful. But they have proved they can score goals before, so no idea why they look so bad now. Is it the system, the manager, or confidence? Possibly a bit of all 3.
It’s probably true that RA will get a free hit this season, even though he’s likely to finish 17th. Looking at the fixtures, I can’t see where a win will come from. It is worrying that the results are so bad though. There’s always a chance the higher ups pull the plug before investing more millions into players that RA wants.
However, if RA doesn’t get some kind of miraculous recovery next season he will definitely find himself out of work by Xmas, and we start again. Not sure how likely it is that a team this bad can add a few players and suddenly become decent. It’s likely most of the players in the squad will be ones from this season. The additions probably need to be exceptional and not more untested young players.
Im hoping the recruitment team know what they’re doing this time, and they look at more than what they can do on the pitch. They need to be mentally strong as they will be under the spotlight 24/ 7.
Yoro looks decent, but other than that the signings in the last year or so haven’t filled me with confidence. The only real signing under RA currently is Dorgu, he’s youngish, it’s early days, but so far he doesn’t look that great.
21 Apr 2025 12:04:24
The system works best when you have two wingbacks who spend more time attacking than defending.
21 Apr 2025 12:26:44
People need to stop being so preoccupied with the formation. Effectively it's the same formation most teams in the EPL play regardless. Most teams in the EPL have a build up shape of 3223 or 3232.
You have three players deeper to give you more build up options and to limit a teams ability to press you high up the pitch as they would have to commit too many players forward to press and cut off passing lanes.
A box midfield has been very popular for the last two seasons as it gives you extra security through the middle and potentially allows you to have an extra man to either use to play through midfield or to effectively press and win the ball. Some teams have done this with a 2-2 shape others have used the diamond to try and find more space between the lines or to have someone do a man marking job to stop the opposition from being able to build through the middle.
Most teams then have a front three, with at least one if not both "wide" players playing Inverted or in the inside channel rather than on the touchline. This is both due to it helping solidify the middle of the pitch from a defensive point of view (leaving the only space to advance wide near the touch line where it is easier to press and win the ball back), and because you create more higher quality goal scoring chances from being closer to the goal rather than wider of it.
We don't really play any differently to other teams in terms of team shape. We start off in a 3421 shape, they tend to start of in a 4231 shape. Yet once the whistle blows either a midfielder drops between the CB's or a fullback stays deeper and tucks in creating a back three, with four in midfield and three players as part of the attack.
The formation isn't the problem for Amorim and our squad. The problem is both the quality and selection of players he has available to play how he wants to play.
A formation isn't a style of play, it is a team shape that should help support the style of play. You can be a sit deep and counter attack team in any formation you want. Likewise you can be a possession based team that looks to build up play and create chances through manipulation of space in any formation you want.
Amorim's style of play isn't a formation. He wants his team to have more possession of the ball, he wants that possession to be in the opposition half of the pitch, he wants to use players rotating positions to create uncertainty in the opposition that can create openings and goal scoring chances.
To do this he tends to play a high line defence to vertically compress the pitch and to keep the ball in the opposition half.
He likes his striker to be able to both drop deep and link play (in doing so they will often drag a defender out with them, and to be able to play on the shoulder for a quick transition if the opportunity arises.
He prefers his wingbacks to be more attack minded, and offer that attacking width. He has often played wingers as wingbacks more so than full backs. He will also want his wingbacks and his inside forwards to be happy to rotate positions when attacking, with the inside forward moving out to the touchline and pulling a defender with them and his wingbacks to then under lap, often then looking to make a cut back pass either to the striker who should be making a near post run, the other inside forward making a back post run, or to a midfielder making a late run into the box more centrally.
From a defensive point of view he wants to congest the middle of the pitch and make it almost impossible to play through, he tends to do this with two more energetic ball winning midfielders deeper, with a preference for one of them to be a ball carrying threat to break the lines rather than a passer. He doesn't look to play quick counter attacking football, so doesn't need a midfielder with an expansive passing range to make those quick longer passes to open teams up. Quick, mobile, energetic players who are intelligent in their movement to win back the ball and to stop the opposition from playing through the centre. Once they win the ball they need to make short to medium passes to the inside forwards or the wingbacks to start attacking pressure, or to run through the opposition line of pressure with the ball to open up space before making that short to medium pass.
The problem he is having has nothing to do with the team shape and entirely down the the squad make up. We have had two managers previously who looked to play as a more counter attacking/ transitioning team. Both Ole and EtH got their best results and performances playing on the counter. The players they brought to the club for the most part were players to suit playing that way.
That is almost the opposite of how Amorim wants to play. He wants his defenders to be high up the pitch to compress the space, not deeper to open up space behind the opposition.
He wants players who can hold possession, and make intelligent movement both on and off the ball in attack not players who are looking to just run in behind and shoot.
He has had less issue with getting the defenders to adjust to his demands than the attackers. They are more capable of playing a higher line than our attackers are at learning to be more intelligent and technically able in smaller spaces.
That is why players like Rashford and Antony have been allowed to leave, Højlund doesn't really suit the role but we don't have anyone else. Garnacho is more suited to a counter attacking set up but might be young enough to mould into what is needed. Players like Bruno, Amad and Zirkzee have been the most useful in attack as they are more capable of playing in smaller spaces and make more intelligent passes in the final third rather than play head down, run into space and shoot.
The other issue Amorim has had in attack is that he uses attacking wingbacks, and we didn't really have any. Amad when used at RWB was probably our best option for what Amorim wants. Dorgu has been signed to help solve that on the left. With maybe Amass and possibly Mantato coming up from the academy to keep an eye on.
In midfield it's no coincidence that Ugarte and Casemiro have tended to be the best options. Although another option to Casemiro is probably needed here as he isn't a long term solution.
Defensively we've been fairly good as a team. Where we have slipped up has mostly come from individual mistakes, especially at keeper. But that will happen while the team gets used to how we are supposed to play and until we have quality options in all positions meaning players further forward don't make mistakes that force the defence to do something different to mitigate it, which leads to mistakes or players being out of position.
The issue has been in attack, in terms of a lack of attacking wingbacks, a striker who can hold up the ball and link play, and creative inside forwards.
Fix the attack and suddenly we would look like a much better team. We would score more goals, carry more threat going forward, control the game better and conceded less chances because of that.
That is the issue under Amorim, we are transitioning from a reactive, counter attacking style, with most of the squad bought to suit that to a more proactive, possession based team, currently without the players suited to play that way. It's nothing to do with the formation.
21 Apr 2025 13:22:04
Tom,
If you think we’ve become worse then there isn’t much people can say, I think there has quite clearly been progress, we are playing much better we just can’t put chances away and our goalkeeper throws the ball in the net.
21 Apr 2025 13:58:52
People too hung up on formations, Onana still useless whatever formation along with all the front line.
I am not sure how anyone can say this front line scored plenty of goals before.
Garnacho always been hit and miss
Rasmus only ever scored against lowly EU teams hardly ever been better than 1 in 4 striker
Zirkee not great finisher
Couple that with slow ponderous CBs and Ugarte who can’t pass a ball 10 yards and we got what we got….