26 Dec 2024 22:26:17
Previously the players true colours show, they stop putting the work in and the manager is sacked.
This then leads to the players getting a kick up the arse and they start working hard under the new manager. We get that new manager bounce and things look like they will finally improve under the new manager.
Then after a while the players true colours show and the cycle repeats.
However, with INEOS in charge it looks like that cycle has been broken at long last.
We've sacked the manager and hired a new one, but we aren't getting a new manager bounce. It's almost like the players have no motivation to work hard under this manager as they know their days are numbered.
Previously when a new manager has come in all the players got a clean sheet and given time to "get it right". But as we are seeing with Rashford, if you don't buy into the new manager then off you f**k.
The players clearly now realise that they're time is up, so there is no motivation to put a shift in for the new manager and we are seeing too many players who are putting in half arsed performances.
The problem is that this will continue until they leave the club. Make no mistake, our club is in a relegation battle now.
26 Dec 2024 22:58:26
It makes no sense though. I get it when they have no loyalty to the manager but ETH bought in players he managed before. They should have the attitude and playstyle needed. Why would they not perform for him? Either the toxicity is so strong it negatively changes all new signings.
I think under amorim we are trying a shift to tactics the players aren't used to or in some cases suited to whilst rock bottom on confidence.
If it's the toxic atmosphere spreading as you suggest then short of selling them all at once (which isn't feasible) and buying a new sqaud it will continue.
27 Dec 2024 00:15:29
Scubaspartan, Bad attitudes spread like cancer, especially when the chips are down.
To see a big change you're right that we need sweeping changes immediately. But as you say that isn't feasible.
What we will have to do is isolate the players with the worst attitudes who are affecting the most other players and move them out ASAP.
Once you remove the biggest dissenting voices then others quieten down. You then need to add leaders, strong positive characters to replace them.
Then slowly replace those who aren't good enough both in terms of mentality and ability.
Over time things will get better. People need to wake up and realise that this is a 3-5 year project.
Obviously don't expect a title challenge this season, next season, or the season after.
The reality is Liverpool might be back on the perch by the time we are ready to seriously challenge again.
Next season (2025/ 26) a realistic target is top 6. Obviously we need to aim higher, but to expect anything better than 6th is wishful thinking.
The year after (2026/ 27) it should be about cracking the top four, 3rd would be a great finish.
Then if we get everything right then we might have a squad/ team to challenge (but probably ultimately fall short) in the 2027/ 28 season. With a realistic target of winning our next league title in 2028/ 29 season.
I'd be absolutely stunned if I was to see us lift the EPL title before May 2029.
Lets be real, who in our current squad do we think are genuinely good enough to start regularly for a title winning team?
MdL, Mazraoui, Onana, and maybe Martinez are the only ones based on current ability (and past record as title winners in various leagues) .
So that's maybe 4 players, all of which will be 28 or older by the time we get to the 2028/ 29 season.
We then have a few young players who might become good enough, players like Yoro, Mainoo, Garnacho, Amad and Højlund.
So if ALL 5 of them make it (which is highly unlikely) and the other 4 stay and prove themselves good enough then we have 9 players who could be part of our next serious title challenge. Which leaves our squad 16 players short at least.
Given financial restraints and the issues with trying to integrate too many players at once then we are looking at adding 5 players a season at most. Which means that's 3 summer transfer windows until have have brought in 15 players to build our title challenging squad. That takes us until the 2027/ 28 season just to actually replace the 16 players who just aren't good enough.
To then be able to challenge at that point we still need the four good enough players to still be here and be good enough.
The 5 youngsters to ALL hit the heights we hope they can reach.
And finally we'll need every single signing to be a unmitigated success.
The likelihood of even one of those three things happening is unlikely, two of them and we will be freakishly successful, all three and we are seeing an actual miracle.
Which means we are probably going to need another season or two to replace those players we already have who don't turn out to be good enough by that time, or to replace the signings we make that inevitably don't work out.
That is why it's not worth getting your knickers in a twist over the next 2-3 seasons when you see poor performances or inconsistent results.
It's taken 11 years to disintegrate our last title winning team, and create something that is mid-table to top 8 at best.
It'll take at least 4-5 years to dismantle this crap and build something better.
That's how long it took Liverpool under Klopp, and Areta is in his 4th year as Arsenal manager.
We don't have a special right or magic powers to be able to do it quicker.
Newcastle with all their new spending power are still 3-4 years away from a title challenging side.
This will be a long are arduous journey, and we probably haven't hit the bottom yet. Before you can rebuild the delapidated house you need to knock it down. That is where we are now. We are having to rip apart the team we have to have any chance of building a better one. That will lead to worse performances and results in the short term.
We need to ride it out, support the players and manager, and back the club to make the right decisions.
As fans we can't make this process any easier or quicker, but we definitely can make it harder and take longer. We can be strong and show our support, or we can be weak, crying and whining creating more problems for the club to have to deal with.
We can be men or we can be boys. The choice is ours.
27 Dec 2024 05:35:50
Shappy have to disagree completely. One thing I cannot fault the players for is their work rate. I was watching the first half and thought we are working really hard across the pitch and were very competitive. We were winning the ball back but once we have it, we really do very little with it. No in between the lines stuff to carve out good opportunities, a bad pass, over hit under hit stuff or just a bad decision.
Saw Hoiland getting mad at Amad a number of times yesterday as he came inside, shifted the ball to his left foot numerous time and instead of looking to shot. Watching Dalot refuse going down the line game after game when the space is there and coming inside is getting very frustrating. He bought Bruno that second yellow imo for giving the ball away.
There is a lot of industry there but a complete lack of end product in the last third. The current set up is not working and we are getting embarrassed by teams that no one is ever going to convince me have better squads. They might have a couple of better players in certain positions that's all.
Watching garnacho in this system is like watching someone who has completely regressed to an academy level player and he looks clueless and useless, taking 5 or 6 touches, loses the ball and no idea what he is suppose to do. People said eth did not coach the young players well, Does kobe or garna look like they have progressed or regressed. Both look completely lost imo. Can't be hanging out hat on oh look amad is doing well so the changes are working as the rest are all over the place.
The set piece coach is useless imo, we have conceded 10 goals from set pieces so far and 6 coming in the last 5 games. Whether its a foul or not, people will have a different view on the subject. One thing i think we can all agree is where is the protection from our defenders for the goalie.
We had somewhere between 8 to 12 injuries most of the season last year and played poorly and finished 8th. We have added 5 good players to the squad and lost 3 who people wanted gone. We are pretty healthy as a squad and getting humped by average opposition.
If this continues Amorim will not survive imo. Ineos sacked a bunch of managers at Nice and one season went through 3 although one left on his own accord.
I get the idea he wants to change our style but there has to be some tweaking of stuff with what he has at his disposal until he has the players if that's the current thinking.
Every manager at any level never has his ideal team but you get the best our of what you have until you can make the appropriate personnel changes. Doing the same thing every game and looking like donkeys is not progression and I am wondering why even tune in to watch this. I was going to the nc game and just cancelled my trip. Better stay here and play some golf and not worth the aggravation.
The idea of waiting until we buy a whole new team and then we will see its all going to be hunky dory is a ridiculous notion and never going to happen in football today.
I really like this manager and will be one of the last to advocate for change but this cannot continue. personally, I would start with not playing Dalot on the left side. He has become a liability playing out of position and not having a go at Dalot but he is no good there in this type of system.
27 Dec 2024 05:38:02
IMO Mazraoui is the only player who strikes me as someone the best clubs in Europe would want. Sure we hear about interest in Martinez/ Garnacho/ Rash from massive clubs but they’re just agent/ newspaper talk imo.
It’s definitely going to get worse before it gets better. 3 defeats in our next games I reckon. Startling.
27 Dec 2024 06:14:28
Bwahahaha! A couple of weeks ago we were going to win 5 out of the next 6 fixtures.
The reality is, and anybody who thinks otherwise is far more confident than I am, that we are bottom half club this year. Get used to it then you will not be disappointed and happy if we finish higher.
Sadly its going to be a loooooong time before we are competing.
Two years ago it was going to be 4-5 years, and now it’s still 4-5 years.
27 Dec 2024 06:41:55
Old gaffer would win these games one way or another, this boy is being taught a lesson. He will be gone by June.
27 Dec 2024 06:50:07
I think it's just the fact the players are dross and can't play the system.
Amorim is in a pickle. He doesn't know anything else but the players can't do what he wants. We have no money unless we sell players, yet who would want to sign any player from us?
He's going to have to work hard to get something from this group as we are in a relegation fight.
We can't score, we can't create any clear cut chances and we can't keep a clean sheet. Both strikers are hopeless and both goal keeper.