16 Dec 2024 10:48:59
Under appreciated aspect of the rashford and garnacho thing is:
1.) In this 3-4-3 system neither one of them are natural “10s” behind the striker and neither of them possess the close control and dribbling skills required (see Amad for reference) . Neither of them are going to be wing backs also.
2.) Both being academy players means that selling them would be an instant benefit in FFP/ PSR calculations than say Antony or Mount.
Would not be surprised to see them shifted in January so we can get the Wing Backs and extra forward required for Amorim to take this team forward.
16 Dec 2024 11:00:28
I agree, wouldn't be surprised to see one of those two leave if it helps fund a more suitable replacement, we'd be short without replacing them. In Rashy's case a loan seems more likely unless someone wants to take a punt on him, and I'm not sure that helps us with £.
On another note Zirkzee may be ticking the boxes behind the scenes in the way Rash/ Garnacho aren't but I find him so uninspiring. I get that we need different types of player and he is quite technical but this system needs pace and energy, watching him close players down nearly sends me to sleep. I don't see it. We got him simply because of the pricetag IMO.
16 Dec 2024 11:13:18
For over 80 years we have had an Academy player in every match day squad, yesterday, there was just Mainoo. I hope we can keep this amazing run going.
16 Dec 2024 11:38:29
I made a similar point about Garnacho when Ruben was announced, and was told that he would adapt.
His role is as a left wing forward. He doesn’t have the space he needs to use his pace as a number 10. He doesn’t have the discipline to be a wing back. His ego won’t allow him to be a squad player.
I think it’s only a matter of time until he’s sold. Tbh, I think it was always inevitable that he looked for a move. He just doesn‘t strike me as a one club player. Hopefully we can get a good price for him.
Rashford, I’m less convinced will move. I don’t see any serious buyers for a player in rapid decline on €300,000 a week.
16 Dec 2024 12:07:51
AJH
I pointed that out on Live chat as soon as I saw the squad.
16 Dec 2024 12:59:03
Imo, Rashford and Garnacho can only be sold in the summer, and the reason for this, imo, is obvious.
Because of how restricted the club is regarding PSR, other clubs will be fully aware of our need to sell before we buy. Irrespective of the two being academy graduates, interested parties will naturally want to maximise the benefit of buying either, and that's precisely why a January move for either shouldn't happen.
Each has 3.5 years remaining on his contract and there is value to that. However, Rashford is still the biggest financial obligation amongst the playing staff and Garnacho will 100% seek more than he's currently getting.
Rashford knows he's a marketable brand and his financial expectations will have a significant impact on any prospective buyer's flexibility with PSR/ FFP rules.
Garnacho, like Rashford, probably already knows he might need to adapt and fight beyond his capacity to maintain his career at United, but he knows he could fit in at plenty of top clubs around Europe - but he's still an emerging talent so he's still a bit of a gamble.
United will not get the full value of either player - not even in the summer, but we'll be mugged with a January sale.
For United to sell both sensibly, the respective agents need to be told what figures the club is looking for and let them roll with it - they will also not likely look at January as an attractive proposition for their clients or, more importantly, themselves.
The distinct requirements relevant to signing either player make them viable options only for a very select bunch with money to burn, but these options aren't usually driven by committees of idiots like the one we had until recently so, imo, selling either in January would be foolish.
16 Dec 2024 13:10:28
Thought Cas was our biggest financial obligation?
16 Dec 2024 13:12:24
Times like these we miss ed002 for facts not assumptions drawn from little or no knowledge and experience.
16 Dec 2024 13:48:42
No idea on what’s true about sales etc but when I saw the team yesterday I didn’t think oh my god he’s dropped Rashford and Garnacho, I thought on recent form neither of them should be in the squad or team anyway, i get why it’s a big deal because it’s united and Rashford but it was the correct decision and Amorim is making a lot of decisions I agree with.
16 Dec 2024 14:01:30
Not surprising but one of the many United on line fanzine/ podcast thingys claiming to know Rashford and Garnacho dropped for being out clubbing and story to hit mainstream media very soon. who knows if any of it true these days with them all clambering for our attention and clicks.
16 Dec 2024 14:46:31
I don't see United selling Garnacho in January. If his indiscipline can be tamed, there could yet be an excellent player there. He is still very young and, with his emergence during a time of great uncertainty, his ego has clearly got the better of him for now. Amorim may be able to resolve that issue. In any event he's on a relatively modest £50k a week which will mean he could well have plenty suitors in the summer, particularly if he does buckle down.
Rashford is a different kettle of fish altogether. At this stage in his career he should have put youthful indiscretions behind him and be at his peak. It's hard to see anyone coming to our rescue and resolving the £55m in wages we're committed to until the end of his contract and also giving us a transfer fee. Rashford obviously has some great qualities but I'm sure he's now seen as a bit of a one trick pony. He's far from a complete footballer. He has hardly any defensive qualities. But maybe, like Sancho, he would thrive in a better team or a less competitive league.
{Ed001's Note - I really don't see it, what is excellent about Garnacho?}
16 Dec 2024 17:17:31
Been saying that from the start ed. Agree 100%. I see a bit but nothing title challenging class. He’s going backwards if anything.
{Ed001's Note - people seem to have been blinded by one great goal.}
16 Dec 2024 17:53:09
I think he has raw potential Ed001, due his pace and the directness of his game. In the right system he could be very effective.
But, he needs to develop his game. At the moment his decision making is very blinkered. 99% of the time he’s looking to run onto a ball behind the defence, cut in and shoot. That makes him easier than he should be to defend against.
On top of that, his willingness to track back is often lacking. Rashford has the same issue. I feel like they both want the classic Ronaldo role of being excused of defensive duties to put them in the best position to score on the counter. The problem is that neither of them are anywhere near prolific enough for this. If you’re banging in 40 plus goals a season, the rest of the team might be able to live with covering for you. If you’re struggling to hit 20, then you get your arse back to help out.
I see it as a big issue with a lot of younger players who are tipped to be the next big thing. They don’t have the wherewithal to work on developing their game, and end up stagnating.
16 Dec 2024 18:03:25
In a team that struggles to score, Garnacho stood out as someone who could breakdown defences. He still has many areas of his game he needs to work on, which everyone highlights on here regularly.
Fortunately Amad has stepped up since Amorim has come in and outshone everyone. The challenge for Garnacho is to raise his game, does he have the mentality, we will see.
{Ed001's Note - Amad was always the better player. Garnacho is miles off being of any use.}
16 Dec 2024 19:15:52
Amad is special.
Garnacho I think flatters to deceive. Personally I’d like him coached to be CF as he doesn’t have the pace or skill to beat a man. He’s certainly not a 10. i'd make him watch videos of Luis Suarez and model his game on him.
16 Dec 2024 19:48:24
Come on, 'miles off being any use' lol? You're better than that Ed.
{Ed001's Note - he has been part of your problem all season.}
16 Dec 2024 20:09:43
Utd Road
You said Garnacho doesn’t have the pace, you do know that in October stats showed he was the quickest player at the club.
I have been a staunch defender of Garnacho, clearly has a lot of talent, young. However there have been signs that his development has stalled. I may be wrong but he is at that age when players take the next step, where confidence is important, but arrogance is not good. He has been making poor decisions, giving the ball away recently which make you question his focus. I suspect the manager has seen that and fired a big shots across his bows.
16 Dec 2024 20:13:23
Amad and Garnacho are perfect examples of why you need to give young players time.
Amad struggled initially, even during his loan to Rangers playing in the SPL. He needed time and space to develop.
While Garnacho burst onto the scene while very young and as such may have been overhyped.
If you put his and Rashford's stats next to eachother when at the same age and it is not the Argentinian who looks like a potential world beater.
While Rashford is the example that talent isn't the only thing that determines success as a footballer.
Garnacho has talent, but he needs to show hard work, discipline and character to develop and become a top player. If he doesn't then he could end up being Januzaj 2.0 rather than the second coming of Ronaldo that he thinks he is/ wants to be.
It's a funny old game, 6 months ago you'd have been certain that Garnacho was going to make it and Amad would likely have to leave. Now it's Amad who looks the cert to become top class and Garnacho who's future is starting to be in doubt. Maybe in another 6 months it swaps back.
{Ed001's Note - I disagree on the end bit. I have always said to Ed77 that I am not impressed with Garnacho but think Diallo has something about him.}
16 Dec 2024 21:04:51
When Garnacho was firing early in the season, Amad was for the scrapheap, according to most on here. Now it has switched.
IMHO, both are worth keeping, there are others that need moving before Garnacho. many others.
16 Dec 2024 21:29:21
Both Garna and rash are not in good form from a team perspective if you are looking for players to be servants of the team rather than the other way round where everyone plays to set up things for them. I suspect both will either earn their keep or be sold depending on what happens in the second part of the season.
16 Dec 2024 21:30:37
Ed001, Garnacho has talent, but I agree I'm not sure exactly what type of player he will become. He seems to be a player who likes to get players 1v1 and then burst past them. He's quick, but not lightening quick. He's not a silky technical dribbler like Amad. His shooting is fairly average, lots of shots either from poor positions or too close to the keeper. He's very greedy and plays with his head down. Yet many of those issues can be coached and improved, but that does require him to do the work. I don't think he's lazy, but it's difficult to work on something you don't think needs improving. The fact that his biggest issue is decision making and he hasn't looked like making any changes other than to shoot more rather than trying to find a team mate, shows that he doesn't seem to see it as an issue.
I think for us he actually looked best when playing on the right, making it unnatural for him to cut inside and shoot off his weaker left foot. That made his game less predictable. The problem is that it seems he's still playing on instinct rather than experience and thought.
The issue is he doesn't have that one really stand out trait. He definitely played on instinct and adrenaline for that first 12 months where he became a regular starter. Or maybe it was that he was a bright spark amongst some pretty dire performances.
The issue is that he still makes the same mistakes now as he made in his first few appearances, which is a concern. When you have a player who is 20 years old who hasn't significantly improved in 18 months as a first team regular it raises questions over their potential and development.
{Ed001's Note - his attitude stinks. He plays for himself, not the team.}
17 Dec 2024 08:47:15
Bit of a snowball effect going on here lol. Before the game I suspect Garnacho was in most fans' first XI, now he's worthless and needs to be sold? Fickle.