07 Aug 2024 20:13:23
Shappy has written an article entitled, Manchester United Transfer Options.
08 Aug 2024 04:42:16
Liverpool fan here and I feel compelled to reply because there are inaccuracies in your post particularly around this statement:
"Liverpool kind of did that last year, they didn't have the funds to spend big and bring in a first choice No.6 so they bought the budget option in Endo"
We were after Ugarte, Lavia, and Caicedo, submitting bids for two of them (Lavia and Caicedo) that are significant but failed due to reasons other than having not enough funds. Endo happened because we failed to bring in the above and he was deemed the next best, not because he was the budget option.
08 Aug 2024 06:03:48
Shappy
Time has come when the club need to decide if they want the top four or not. The season is a week away and we look like we are trying to show we won’t be held to ransom. There is a key position at CB and CM that needs to be filled and we are not dealing with it. If we want to get top four then do the deal for MDL and Ugarte, now. If we go back to buying a square peg in a round hole from Burnley what’s changed from the previous regime?
Zirkzee is an unknown, potential and I am actually interested, possibly more interested to see if the lad signed from Arsenal Obi Martin, gets some time.
08 Aug 2024 08:16:47
Redman it's not quite as simple as that. There are constraints the club are working under and need to comply with.
Shifting players is not easy and we need to do that while being compliant.
Even if the money is there its not a cade of biting the bullet and throwing money at it.
There is also the case of getting the right players in.
Patience is the key. Horrible mistakes have been made. I can't think of any signing that has done really well under this coach with the exception of martinez who has not been available most of the time,
I doubt very much we will see too much of a 16yo next season I certainly hope not.
Let's see how who we end up with come the end of the window I honestly don't think it matters who we sign.
I'm looking forward to seeing zirkzee who offers something different. He has something about him and the way he plays intrigues me a bit.
Yoro is a young lad that if you watch his lowlights as well as his highlights tells you he has much to learn and he will take a year or 2 before we see the best of him.
I guess we will be in better shape by end of Aug.
Signings are needed no doubt and the will happen but we need to work within parameters that are not ideal.
08 Aug 2024 08:18:01
Yep, not excited by any of the signings at all except the kid Obi Martin from Arsenal who reminds me of Greenwood . just knows where the goal is - on the limited clips I've seen.
All very well not being ripped off but you pick your battles - pay the extra 15 mill + add ons for Branthwaite, pay the fee for Ugarte =signings who could elevate us a level and sends a positive feel good message to the current squad who also need a boost going into a new season . but then dig your heels in and don't pay over the odds for the 2 Munich players - don't go looking at Fofana for 30 mill when others have offered 15-18 according to reports - i'm not seeing a clever stategy at all -based om media reports which is waht 90% of us go on outside of this site.
08 Aug 2024 09:20:56
Tumble
Understand but if we seriously want top four we cannot be sat here in 3.5 weeks at last minute. We need to get them bedded in. We need a strong start. When you see Villa being decisive and above them Liverpool, City and Arsenal, where are we with what we have so far. Yes, Yoro is unfortunate and I love seeing the kids get a chance but we let the young CB go and cannot start a season with one of the poor CB alongside Martinez. If we are playing for 5th and that’s what it looks like, at best, then fine play Collier Amass, and be honest.
We must get top four this season but a slow start will not help. Scoring goals has been an issue, as has not controlling midfield or crossing the ball so we need to see movement next week in my opinion and Berge from Burnley must not be a main signing for a club with any ambition.
08 Aug 2024 10:04:04
We will not finish top 4 on merit. We may luck in if other teams falter. We should temper expectations on that subject and instead look for a steady improvement over the next couple of years with a growing team.
If that does not look like happening then we need to move on it sooner rather than later or we will be saying in two years that it will be another 4 years until we are challenging.
Crap outlook? …. sure! But reality will become apparent soon.
We still have Antony, AWB, Maguire Lindelof, the frankly unpredictable Rashford and Sancho so don’t hold your breath!
08 Aug 2024 10:27:35
It's going to be Sander Berge isn't it?
08 Aug 2024 11:02:56
Red Man, Rome was not built in a day and I would hope that a man of your experience would have a little more patience.
The new owners cannot undo the mess that has been nearly two decades in the making in a matter of months.
We will likely have to lose out on some targets this summer and probably over the next couple as well to start changing the perception that we are a club that caves to the demands of others.
As much as I'd like to see us sign a player like Branthwaite, I understand that if the only way to sign him this summer is to cave into Everton's demands then it's best for the long term health of the club that we walk away from the deal. That is the same with PSG for Ugarte, and Bayern with MdL and Mazraoui.
The club will be aiming for a top four finish this season, it will be a long hard season and no one is cementing their place in the top four in the first 4 weeks of the season. While a quick start out of the gates is preferable, it doesn't mean much if you drop off in the mid season or towards the end.
The biggest issue we have to signing new players right now is an inability to shift out those that the club no longer deem as useful parts of the squad.
This issue is two fold in that we need to move them on to raise funds, but also that the squad is limited to 25 places (for players over the age of 21). If we sign players first then we run the risk of either having to accept lower offers as clubs will know we have to sell, or keep them and not register them so they are an expense that we cannot use.
What we absolutely cannot afford to do this summer is waste money on players who do not add to the squad, players who we will have to replace in a year or twos time. Possibly putting us back to where we are now, having to sell them before we can bring in new players, but maybe they don't want to go and accept lower wages, or clubs aren't interested in buying them from us.
This is the inevitable growing pains that we will have to endure if we are to truly move beyond being a sleeping giant and awaken to take back our place at the top of the table.
Ideally we need to move on Casemiro if we are to bring in a first choice replacement. Yet that seems unlikely, so maybe if we can't raise the ceiling we look to raise the floor of the squad instead and look to replace the squad players this summer. Move on Eriksen and McTominay and bring in a couple of midfielders who are both of a higher quality and suitability for how we want to play. Then next summer we might be able to move Casemiro on and bring in a first choice CDM.
Likewise, we can't sign a third RB this summer. We need to move on AWB before we can bring in his replacement.
Again if we are to bring in another CB then one needs to leave first. Currently we have Martinez, Yoro, Evans, Maguire and Lindelof. Five players all being paid at least 90k per week for two positions. We can't go adding a 6th (especially not someone like MdL on close to 200k per week) without one of the others leaving first.
While we also have a couple other players who need to be moved on who we probably won't look to replace (Hannibal, Pellistri) . While the club would ideally like to move on both Sancho and Antony, finding buyers for both seems unlikely though this summer and I doubt the club will look to buy someone else until both have been moved on. Probably a move for next summer.
So that leaves us with AWB, Lindelof, Eriksen, McTominay, and Casemiro who the club need to sell to be able to bring in a upgraded replacement.
Hannibal and Pellistri need to just be moved on.
While maybe one of Sancho or Antony could leave if the club can get any offers. But unless both leave then a replacement wide player won't be sought.
Ideally I think the club wanted to shift AWB, Lindelof, Casemiro and Eriksen and bring in a RB, CB, starting CDM and a back up CM.
Along with players like Amass and Collyer being used to full gaps in the squad.
However, it looks like AWB is maybe 50/ 50 as to whether he leaves. The West Ham move makes a lot of sense for him, but I understand why he might have a preference for Inter Milan if it was a viable option. Yet, will he be prepared to accept a lower wage this year, when he can stay for a year and leave next year and receive a big signing on bonus.
Lindelof doesn't seem to have any takers right now, or at least none that he is willing to move to. Whether that is because the wages aren't acceptable or because it's a move to a club he doesn't fancy who knows.
Casemiro doesn't look like he has any takers unfortunately. So it looks like we will be stuck with him for another year.
Eriksen I think will leave quietly and suddenly.
McTominay is a tricky one. Supposedly he wants a bigger role at the club, but if he isn't going to get that then he'll consider a move away. Reportedly he wasn't initially keen on Fulham, which has understandably made them wary of paying a big fee for someone who isn't convinced to join them. He'd rather move to a club competing in European competition, yet there are few of them who want him, and the few who might consider him won't pay United the fee they want.
They'd accept a bid for Sancho if one came in for 35-40m, the real question is will anyone take a chance on him for that fee and huge wages. PSG looks like one of the few possible destinations.
Antony would require a blind DoF for us to find someone willing to pay for him. I wouldn't be surprised if Sancho stays that Antony maybe goes on loan to try and drum up interest if he can maybe show some form elsewhere.
All in all United are in a right mess, they need to sell players for acceptable fees to raise funds. Yet there is a reluctance from the players to accept a move to a "smaller" club and lower wages. While clubs are reluctant to spend decent fees on players who have "failed" at United and will still demand big wages.
Even if United can shift some of these players (I have no doubt they will eventually), the issue is that signing replacements for fair fees is difficult when we have a reputation for spending silly money.
Combine those two issues with the fact that the majority of the people working behind the scenes on these moves are fairly new to their position and haven't had time to properly plan and lay down the groundwork on any deals means that this is without a doubt the most difficult transfer window our club have had to negotiate in over a decade.
I have full confidence in the new people at the club to do their best and get the squad into a better shape than the one they found.
However, I'm not expecting miracles, maybe one more first team player and a couple of good squad players is the most I expect this summer.
The vast majority of the improvement this season will have to come from keeping our players fit and playing to the best of their ability and through tactical changes to better get the best out of what we have.
No doubt that is why the club have also overhauled the medical department and shaken up the coaching staff.
It will be next summer after the club have had a full year to assess and plan what we need to do to move the squad forward, and to get ourselves into a better financial position that I might expect to see some serious changes to the squad.
Maybe move on one or both of Shaw and Malacia and bring in a new LB.
Move on Maguire and Evans and bring in another CB.
Replace AWB if he hasn't been replaced this year.
Move on both Antony and Sancho and bring in a new wide player.
Then depending on what happens with midfield this summer and over the season, probably sign at least one new midfielder. Either a first choice option to replace Casemiro, or a young squad option with potential.
Then it'll be a case to growing that young squad together and developing them, with maybe a few signings the following summer either to add those flourishing touches or to replace signings that haven't worked out. It's a three year rebuild, and this summer is about laying the foundations, next summer will see significant rebuilding, with the final touches added the following season.
Expecting us to even start seriously rebuilding this summer is a bit too much in my opinion.
08 Aug 2024 11:31:58
Dracred, fair enough, the club instead of spending big on a top target for CDM they instead pivoted and bought Endo (17m) and Gravenberch (34m), improving to squad depth rather than bringing in the top level first choice option.
If you look at the options of Lavia, Caicedo and Ugarte all of them were expensive long term options who would have been more or less guaranteed first choice options. While Endo was a cheaper, older, stop gap player who improves the squad depth.
I'm suggesting United might do something similar, when unable to bring in Ugarte (top choice) they instead might look to bring in a couple of cheaper squad players who improve the squad depth this season and look to bring in the first choice player next year.
Sander Berge might be United version of Endo last summer. While Fofana would be the Gravenberch equivalent.
When Liverpool missed out on their 50-60m first choice option, they spent that money on Endo and Gravenberch.
United could spend the Ugarte money on Berge and Fofana. Which wouldn't be a bad use of the money and still improves United for this season and beyond.
Options for the midfield duo of Casemiro, Mainoo, Berge and Fofana are definitely better than options of Casemiro, Mainoo, Eriksen and McTominay.
Mostly because neither McTominay or Eriksen are suited to playing deeper in midfield.
08 Aug 2024 11:50:51
Shappy
I am working so can’t digest a full essay. I didn’t mention Branthwaite once. For me I would have bought a more experienced forward but we have what we have. We go out and by all accounts agree terms with Ugarte agent then not sign him. Decide our key priorities and CM has to be one, if it is do the business. Haggle over the right back by all means, but the spine of the team needed serious attention. I like the Yoro and Obi Martin purchases and Zirkzee we will see but CM is vital. Am I patient? Of course, you don’t support for over 55 years without it, but key positions need to be sorted. This weekends game isn’t the most important but we play Liverpool early and that will be a barometer.
08 Aug 2024 12:26:42
There's still 3 weeks left in the transfer window. There's clearly a lot of juggling going on across the whole market, with clubs, in general, trying to rein in excessive transfer demands while cutting back on unsustainable pay packages, or conversely demanding ridiculous amounts of money for their contracted players. I'll take a wait and see approach. I'm not expecting everything to be sorted this window anyway, just that we take the correct next steps in the rebuild. If everyone can somehow get fit and performing to their highest potential within a team framework, we should be very competitive.
08 Aug 2024 13:59:55
I agree with redman.
The spine of the team need the most work. 2 center backs, 2 midfielders and a proven goal scorer would have been a great summer.
We have hojlund who shows glimpses and now have zirkzee.
Yoro's injury in unfortunate but we couldn't be relying on him, another center back needs to happen.
The midfield for me was the area that needed strengthening. Casemiro's legs have gone, mainoo is a great prospect but needs legs next to him. Every game last year we were over ran in midfield. Only when we put Bruno as a false 9 did we look a more solid outfit.
Mount has looked lively pre season but where he fits in to this team is anyone's guess.
I actually think berge would be a decent signing if that rumour has any substance. Another ball playing 6 would be welcomed.