28 Jul 2024 16:18:05
Looks like we have another breakthrough talent in young Collyer. Very composed last night. Rashford also showed his previous self, even after losing another Range Rover.
28 Jul 2024 16:52:38
I can see him being the first this season followed by Amass and Oyedele to break into the first team squad by end of the season.
28 Jul 2024 17:53:26
I doubt they will amass 100 mins between them all season for the 1st team.
28 Jul 2024 18:35:43
Why do you doubt Tumble?
28 Jul 2024 23:16:41
Because they are miles off epl standard imo. They look like good prospects particularly amass who is well regarded a long time.
29 Jul 2024 11:26:10
What is Collyer lacking Tumble?
29 Jul 2024 12:39:33
From what I've seen so far I'd say Collyer and Fish look ready to get minutes in the senior team. They have played their pre-season minutes with a confidence that they know they can play this level and that competing with grown men isn't a problem.
Amass, Oyedele and Wheatley all look like they can/ will struggle at times with the pace/ strength of men's football. They need to learn how to use their bodies better. While they also look too keen to impress, it's like they are trying to force it rather than just playing the game.
They all look like a good loan where they play regularly at either Championship or even league one level would be ideal experience for them. Get them physically competing with men every week, learn to relax into a game and how to use their body to withstand a more physically competitive level of football.
I think they might be ready for first team minutes next season rather than this one.
29 Jul 2024 12:59:48
Exposure to men's football, know how, speed of thought, physicality.
A loan or a full year training with the squad perhaps some bench opportunities In Europe in particular might arise but unless we have very serious Injury issues again I wouldn't have thought he will play too often this coming season.
29 Jul 2024 13:29:20
To be fair, Mainoo’s loan and Garnacho’s loan to get them ready for senior football helped them out ??.
29 Jul 2024 13:59:14
Ports for every mainoo or garnacho there are 20 Tyler blackets jacuzzi machedas or Borthwick Jackson.
Mainoo is a generational exceptional talent. I was laughed at after his debut saying he would play with rice and Bellingham in the euros.
Some players are special mainoo is one of those. Garnacho not so much but certainly good enough to do his learning on the job.
Amad needed his loan and still looked short last season.
29 Jul 2024 14:43:33
But how long ago were those players you are talking about Ken? 10 years? Games changed, players have changed. I think the game now is easier to bring in young kids then it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. I also think there is more need to bring kids through with financial elements of the game. There will never be another class of 92 but I can see more kids coming through. If as a club we bring 1 through a season we are doing very well. I just think this next crop there are a couple of gems. That’s with Lacey still not even mentioned and wouldn’t expect to see him til next season at the earliest.
29 Jul 2024 15:17:16
Who did shortire sign for today?
29 Jul 2024 15:23:50
1 a season would be great ports.
There are a few with potential but the gulf between epl and academy is massive. Lots of good players and most will carve out a professional career the vast majority of those will be away from united.
Ports you may feel its easier now to bring kids through but the stats say something different. Less players are finding their way through from academy to 1st team in the epl than they did in the 80s 90s 2000's so you may feel that but it's distinctly not true.
29 Jul 2024 17:26:20
Ports, I disagree with that. I don't think it's easier at all, In fact I think it's much harder.
We have seen a steady stream of young English lads moving to the Netherlands and Germany to get a chance and breakthrough into men's football.
That never used to happen. Getting relegated from the EPL costs a club 100's of millions. While competition at the top of the league is greater than ever. Which clubs can afford to give youth players a real chance? Half a dozen teams who'll be comfortably mid-table perhaps, or those that have no choice due to circumstances.
Would Garnacho and Mainoo have got the chances they did if we had a strong squad full of top class players and were battling Man City for the title? Probably not.
We've got a strong bunch of kids in the academy right now, if 2 or 3 make it at our club as genuine first team players then that would be a massive success.
How many clubs have 3 or 4 former academy players playing regularly in their first 11? Let alone teams that are genuinely fighting it out for major honours.
That alone highlights how hard it is for these kids to step up into the first team.
Managers getting sacked left right and centre. When they know that a few bad results could cost them their job, how willing do you think they will be to take a chance on a youngster?
LvG gave loads of academy kids debuts and chances, yet only one of them actually made in in the first team. He must have given 15-20 young players chances in the first team. Yet only one made it.
That step up is hard, tougher that ever I'd say. I'm excited to see which of our youngsters are able to make that step up. I know that with our current manager they will at least get a chance. Then its up to them and probably a healthy slice of luck to seize that opportunity.
29 Jul 2024 17:27:51
Ken, that’s not true though and unfortunately just because you think it is, it’s not. In 2022 the premier league published a report about the 10 years of the EPPP (Elite Player Performance Plan) . It showed that compared to 2012/ 13 season when the plan launched, twice as many minutes are being played by English U21 players. There was 566 homegrown premier league debutants. Of the 1,866 players to feature in the premier league since 2012/ 13, 47% have been homegrown. Now, comparing the game to the 80’s and early 90’s is ridiculous because the money wasn’t there. I compared it to 20 years ago (2004).
So you may think less players are finding their way through from academy to 1st team but it's distinctly not true.
29 Jul 2024 18:37:49
That's not true of academy graduates. There is a difference between academy graduates coming through too the epl and homegrown players.
30 Jul 2024 07:09:44
Ports, let's play a game, how many EPL clubs (and the players) can you name that are regular (first choice if everyone is fit and available) for their club who came through that clubs academy?
30 Jul 2024 08:09:36
Completely different discussion Shappy. Breaking into the 1st team squad as was the original statement and becoming a regular starting player is very different.
Tell me where I said they’d become regular starting players. A homegrown player must have been in the academy system for at least 3 years before the age of 21. Collyer hasn’t been at United for 3 years but has been in our academy and is classed as homegrown. And the stats clearly show young players are getting more opportunities in 1st teams. Which is the original discussion. It seems you and Ken want to change the narrative of this discussion for some reason.