Manchester United banter 92752


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10 Nov 2023 07:19:27
I was having a long heated debate yesterday with a friend of mine on United and led me go do some research and look things up.

He was like many saying eth has spend money and we should be doing better and like many using Antony as a rod for the manager.

Arteta is 4 windows has signed 29 players at arsenal. 5 loan deals but higher quality stuff like odegard, raya, . 657 mill spent

Pep has signed 52 players at city in 7 seasons and one loan deal. Their spend is quite interesting as they don't do cheap signings and all seem to be in certain bracket. They also seem to move players on if they don't work out and purchase someone else. 1.15 billion spend.

Klop has signed 45 players in his 8 years at liverpool with 2 being loan deals. 850 mill spend. They seem to sign more free transfers compared to city and arsenal.

Eth has signed 16 players at United with 6 loan deals in 2 seasons. 4 of those loan deals are gone now and 2 players currently on loan. 384 mill spent

If we get into net spend, which i did not have time to look up properly but we are way off all these teams as they seem to do well moving players on and getting good fees.

If you look at spending since eth has come on by top 6 rivals.

Chelsea at 966 mill
United at 384 mill
Arsenal at 375 mill
Spurs at 374 mill
City at 343 mill
nc 295 mill

Some surprises are westham at 295 mill and forrest at 265 mill

Proceeds form sales NCare the worst and then its United and we are off by some margin comparatively to the rest.

The data is interesting and you can form your own conclusions.

Agree3 Disagree0

10 Nov 2023 07:33:11
Sorry missed liverpool

They spend 260 mill last two windows.

10 Nov 2023 07:55:40
And all of them above us in EPL apart from Chelsea and all of them playing better football than us.

Really it’s net spend that matters if no return it’s totally wasted money.

So dress it up how you like but at end of day you wasted much time yesterday to try prove a point and achieved zero.

10 Nov 2023 08:50:53
Who cares about money it’s not mine or yours

The only thing that matters is trophies and the style of play.

10 Nov 2023 09:08:37
Blackpool. 100% correct.

10 Nov 2023 09:28:46
And they have spoken. pearls of wisdom.

10 Nov 2023 10:49:53

Rangers is him again, don’t rise to it.

10 Nov 2023 11:08:28
And arguably all spent so much wiser, at least how it looks currently.
I'd love to be able to look back in a few years at some of our signings in this period and say, well he had a shaky start but came good. Sadly I don't have much optimism that's going to happen.
Antony is the latest United player under the spotlight, seems like they've all had a turn in recent months but he's an easy target. £82m.
Doku - £55m. One of the most exciting players I've seen in recent times and has genuinely improved the best club side in the world.
Mitoma - a hilarious £2.5m. Ok, you can argue he's left-sided, and hasn't hit the heights of last season. But come on. Urgent overhaul of the transfer process, from scouting to negotiating, required.

10 Nov 2023 11:55:14

Pl standing 2021/ 2022

City 93
Liverpool 92
Chelsea 74
Spurs 71
Arsenal 69
United 58
Westham 56

When people say style and look we have spend money and where is our cruyf football. The rest are spending and no one is standing still and coming from a much better base imo, nc being the exception as they may not have had the players but looks like a very good setup working to a plan.

Everyone is much further down the road than we are, operating in a stable environment with Chelsea being the exception but that is going to change soon imo and they will come good later this year.

We finished 35 points behind city and 13 points off 4th place and it is very subjective in terms of what is the gap to bridge and how many players and more spend is needed to compete for the league.

I actually thought we would push on and do better this year but the injuries first and foremost, prolonged takeover saga and I assume the instability that comes with it. Then Sancho, Antony, Greenwood and the three ring circus around the club have tempered my expectations.

We need to catch a break, get the noise level down and operate in a semi stable environment that includes avoiding injuries, ownership clarity, no player issues and just some normalcy of what should be standard around a football club.

10 Nov 2023 11:57:55
blackpool red - regarding the money; it comes from us in varying ways, the tickets, the shirts, the subscription to tv and on and on. We as fans have no other main option other than to not go, not watch and not buy product but that is shooting ourselves in the foot and with the fan base as large as it is there will be plenty to fill the stadiums and eventually succumb to the sales and marketing. So sorry, but it is important that we as fans have an opinion on where the cash is spent for our enjoyment. In saying that nobody who deals with finance at the club is going to listen lol.

10 Nov 2023 12:12:55
Our spending, recruitment and being wise don't go together. That's a structural thing at the club.

10 Nov 2023 13:30:21
The manager didn’t spend the money. They help identify the players, and it’s up to the club to agree a fee. We’ve overpaid for dozens upon dozens of players, which has been used as a stick to beat whichever manager is in place at that time.

10 Nov 2023 17:32:38
Clearly we have had a major issue with our recruitment. We have invested in many players for no return when they leave. We are paying ridiculous wages. Which in turn inflates even our own internal wages.

Eth has not had more recruitment that others who took on similar big challenges. He also is not getting the support to remove players that do not suit how he wants to play. Players need to leave. New players need to come in to fit the style. Then you will see a big improvement.

But if you don't see that, there is no debate. You either believe I the project of you dont. The director of football and CEO need to change. Then they will be responsible for that decision.

To look at EtH now and say he has been a failure in my view is wrong, he is fastest to 50 wins in our history. Doesn't sound like failure to me. He has a crazy amount of off field issues. Injuries galore.

I am just backing this guy above the players until the club gets it's sh1t together. I live varane. don't know what is going on. But eth is te stability and strength we need right now, so back him and let's get going. I would drop every 1st team player and play kids before turning on him.

10 Nov 2023 19:33:48
It's no shock that Ten Hag signings haven't been great, he didn't build that Ajax team, Overmars did, he did an excellent job of coaching what aovermars gave him.

United should have got in someone who has built teams to build him one.

Murtaghvjas never built a team either so not sure what United were thinking tbh.

10 Nov 2023 20:56:38
I tend to agree dodgy, a good read I enjoyed that.
There are issues that eth has handled well imo and others not so well again imo.
He has players he believes in and trusts and they also believe and trust him. However, he also has several who don't believe in, like or trust him nor he them. So it's a very divided camp and not a great environment to help produce your best form. Eth needs to sort that out as priority no 1 imo. If there is no unity there is no united.
January won't sort it but he needs to put some sticking plasters in place till the summer. That's within his control and he needs to find the answers from within himself. Too much stick and not enough carrot I've seen it described as.
Horrible run of luck with long term injuries. Horrible run of luck and noise with off field issues, horrible run of luck with VAR.
He is limited in his ability to play his preferred style from the back because his players aren't up to it. This renders onnana! s best assets redundant. This also nullifies his whole philosophy to a certain extent.
But he is the leader he needs to unite the dressing room to a better extent.
There is no doubt he is in a tough spot with SJR and team arriving soon it remains to be seen if they want to get on the eth bus or start their journey with their man.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens.
If we stick with eth with the correct structure around him great if they put a new structure in place with their man in, then great.
Either way it's going to be a couple more seasons of ups and downs before we see real consistency and the benefits of whatever they put in place.
In 2 years time I'd be surprised if any more than 6 of this seasons 1st team squad will be at the club.

10 Nov 2023 23:08:29
The reality is that rival fans make everything out to be a big deal and will always look for sticks to beat us, the media love to create a "United crisis" story, especially if they smell blood in the water. While there is a weird section of Manchester United supporters who do everything bar support the club.

I've watched pundits totally excuse City dropping points, despite the world class squad and Pep as manager, on the basis that they had Rodri suspended. City missing one player and its understandable that they drop points. While those same pundits don't feel that its a reasonable excuse for United to drop points despite having 5 or 6 first choice players missing.

There are biases and agendas everywhere you look and they rarely reflect well on our club.

Case in point this post. Despite United having been horrifically mismanaged for over a decade, to the point of now needing to rebuild the entire squad. People will point to the money United have spent under EtH and say he has to be playing better. Yet most of his rivals have spent a similar amount of money over that same period and all of them had the luxury of doing so with a squad in a better position of strength. so their signings were those that elevate an already good squad. As opposed to the signings United will have to make to just get us to having a decent squad.

As I've said previously United probably need to move on 15-18 players and buy 12-15 players to replace them. More if some of the younger players in our squad don't reach their potential. Given that the average player bought by a top four side to go into their first 11 is currently at around the 50m mark that would equate to between 600-750m minimum just to get the squad to where it needs to be from this point.

I also don't believe people are being totally fair when judging the players signed under EtH. Yes we have overpaid for several, but that is not down to the manager.

Casemiro almost singlehandedly held our midfield together last season and was arguably among the best CDM's in the world. He helped carry us to two cup finals, winning one of them for our first silverware in 6 years. In terms of impact in the first team he has absolutely been a success. This season his form seems to have dropped off, but given his age it was always going to be a short term signing. Also I think his bad form is being made to look significantly worse this season due to the injuries of his teammates and how that has meant the defence is dropping deeper while the forward line still looks to press high. This creates much more space in midfield and leaves them exposed more than they would be if the defence was capable of playing a higher line.

Martinez has probably been our best signing in a long time. He was excellent and again one of the best players in the league in his position.

Eriksen has been a very good signing for us. He makes a difference when he is on the pitch. Again obviously not a long term signing.

Malacia has been a completely fine signing, generally good when he's plaid. While his presence did seem to push Shaw on to play better. He's a player that for what we paid for him and given his age was actually a fairly smart signing. Someone who was inexpensive, signed on a relatively low wage. A player who has potential to kick on and become a very good player for us, or one that if he doesn't kick on we should be able to sell him for at least the 12m we paid for him, if not more.

Antony has been the flop, we knew we were overpaying for him when we signed. Although I don't think any of us realised just how much we were over paying.

Yet 4 out of 5 of EtH's first summer window signings have been a success. The problem is that 2 of them were never going to be long term options.

There is literally no point talking about the loan players. EtH has literally been forced to use the loan market as the club haven't had the ability to bring in proper targets on permanent deals.

This summers signings I don't think are bad signings. Certainly it's too early to say one way or another. Onana is a good keeper who can play in the modern way. His transition into the team has been particularly tricky given all the injuries and constant chopping and changing we've ben forced to do in defence. Given his age, profile and the current cost of players I don't think his transfer was a particularly expensive or overpriced one. He is a highly rated keeper, 27 years old and entering his prime but with space for more improvement (keepers often peak later), and he was playing for a top side and helped them make the UCL final last season.
Mount given his contract situation we have probably overpaid for, but I'm still confident that he'll prove to be a good signing for us.
Hojlund again debatable if we paid a little too much, yet in the first couple of months he looks most likely of the summer signings to be an undisputed star and valuable first team player for years to come.
Bayindir was brought in as a back up keeper for 4m. It's a nothing signing and almost impossible to fail at that fee given the expectations of a back up keeper.

So of the 9 players he has signed to actually be a part of his team (and not loan players brought in to fill out and patch up a poorly constructed squad) . Only one can be considered an undisputed flop so far (Antony), all the others have either done well, been useful for the role they were signed (Malacia and Bayindir), or it's too early to make a real judgement.

The only real complaint is that we have overpaid for several of them (Antony, Casemiro, Mount and possibly Hojlund) . Yet the fees paid are not down to the manager.

Is EtH the right man long term? Who knows. Certainly with all the upheaval we are anticipating behind the scenes it might become clear that the club and the manager have different ideas about the direction of the team. In which case a parting of the ways would be inevitable. However, for this season I think the manager has earned his right to be given the chance to continue and work through this bad patch.

I mean we are 11 league games into the season. Eleven games ago EtH was the manager who had dealt with several massive issues such as Greenwood, Ronaldo, and the sale upheaval. He had started to move out players who were clearly not good enough, and had made signings that had generally been a success or were exciting signings ahead of the new season. He has just presided over a successful season taking the team from 6th place to 3rd in his first season, winning a cup and making another final. He is also the quickest manager in our history to 50 wins.

Nothing that has happened this season undoes any of that. This season he has had to deal with an utter s**t show quite frankly. The continued disruption caused by the sale of the club. A situation that clearly hampered him and the club during the summer transfer window. He's had Sancho kicking off and acting like a spoilt brat. The utter shambles the club made of attempting to reintroduce Greenwood to the squad, the media backlash, followed quickly by the club backtracking. The ridiculous injury list and the having to constantly chop and change his team. Then finally the media's hounding and trying to make a storm in a teacup.

While all of this is going on, while he deals with all that going wrong, most of it totally out of his hands. Not once have we seen him lose control and throw his toys out the pram in the manner that Arteta has done last weekend when bless him his side had a couple of decisions go against him. God knows how Arteta would have coped if Arsenal had anything like the long list of appalling poor decisions that we have had to endure this season. he'd have probably bombed the PGMOL headquarters by now.

I actually feel the way EtH has been able to keep his head and stay calm despite everything that is going on around him and the club this season just further highlights his top class mentality and why he is a manager deserving of working at the highest level. He has the right temperament to work in the pressure cooker environment. That isn't something many have.

11 Nov 2023 06:06:01
Some amount of excuses for a ropey manager he's spent a fortune on bad players if you can't see that do you even watch games? ETH is really struggling most well run clubs wouldve binned him by now the blame lies squarely at him for your non existent zombie style football i'd be worried if my club had a manager who spent heavy money on likes of Malacia Antony etc even Martinez he's had a few good months rest of the time he's been pony as well fair play to you for seeing some positives but come on you were just completely outplayed by Copenhagen over 2 games who spend nothing and are basically a conference/ europa level side if these performances carry on your dutch fella be gone by xmas even the glazers won't let such a slide continue.

11 Nov 2023 08:59:58
Don't worry Gers, we know your family has to share the same single brain cell and it hasn't been your turn for quite a while ?.

11 Nov 2023 13:15:05
I am truly behind this manager and was trying to get rid of the throw away comments we have spent money, news flash everyone is spending money.

He took over a broken team with so many legacy issues that it takes a a few years to clean it up in the best of circumstances and we all know we don't have anything resembling that. We finished 35 points behind the winning team in the pl. if people want to hang a overspend on Antony on him as being a bad manager they are trolls imo and i see we have a few who change their usernames but post the same nonsense stuff.

We will get there if he is given time and the culture of the place is starting to change. Benching varrane speaks volumes to me, if you are not playing well, you don't play just based on name recognition.

11 Nov 2023 13:35:12
Ooooft coming from you shappy that is rich a man who rambles paragraph after paragraph yet says nothing of note and in fact contradicts himself even in the same paragraph you my man have way to much time on your hands. Have u ever played or Coached in any capacity i have at a reasonable level and would back my knowledge of how things are ahead of yours any day not been nasty here just the way it is . Bet you thought Ole was the man as well at the time?

11 Nov 2023 14:19:07
when you said I back myself you lost me. Problem with most men sitting on their sofa drinking beer/ wine and thinking that way :)

12 Nov 2023 09:56:17
Ahmad i wasnt trying to find you pal your another absolute authority on how a club is run i forgot that my bad UTD is badly run very for a so called big club but the excuses you fellas make for managers is unreal everythings the Glazers fault why even have a manager if nothing's there fault? A big problem at UTD is these ridiculous 3 year rebuilds why even 3 years? Basically the manager has to show very little progress for 3 years or until he has X amount of his own signings whatever happened to actually coaching at UTD improve what youve got its a squad full of international players look at Newcastle relegation candidates Howe comes in makes a few transfers changes a few players positions ie Almiron Joelinton there a top side. It doesn't take years look at it this way UTD highest spend in EPL highest wage bill in EPL biggest stadium in EPL biggest support in EPL so youve definitely been punching well below your weight since Jose won the europa league. Could be along with having a shocking DoF your stupidity in backing managers making little progress ie writing of seasons is holding u back . 1 big trophy the europa in what 5/ 6 years is shocking.

12 Nov 2023 11:27:45
Ahmad also what's a legacy issue that's just a buzzword surely? Domt think anybody would look at just Antony in isolation tho that's definitely been the worst signing maybe ever in the epl at the price surely u can't think anyone who dosent think the managers very good is a troll UTD usually get booed of after a home game are they all trolls as well? Maybe TH will turn it around but there has to be a timescale has to be goals every season there is even at amateur level management. In football there's only winning and loosing there's no culture that's just excuses only culture that matters is winning in any sport no trophy's or title challenges at big clubs means sacked i'm afraid ?. Time utd stopped with these pathetic buzzwords culture changes etc and started winning trophies. Agree on Varane tho he's done at this level McGuires a far better player and needs to keep his place him and Mctom are by far your best players atm i think.



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