12 Jul 2022 08:41:30
Before the season starts I'd would be nice to gauge people's opinion.
Not on where we will finish but on the manager.
Is redman the only person underwhelmed and not convinced by eth?
I think the new manager will do well in time.
I think he needs some time to get his ideas across and to change our whole playing style a philosophy but I feel like for the 1st time in years we have somebody come in with a clear and defined way of playing.
I think the remaining players will respond to that generally and I think his transfer targets are in keeping with the playing philosophy which is important.
It looks like he is being backed or at least they are attempting to.
So who is with redman in the very sceltical side on ETH and who is going to try and support him with optimism and not jump on his back straight away?
My view is that I won't be judging in him or most the players until end of season.
I'm not expecting an instant change from zero to hero's but I'd like to see some decent progression as the season goes on and some progress made.
I'd like to tune into a game and have pride in my teams efforts.
I think I'll get that under eth.
I'd like to have some hope for the coming seasons.
I think I'll get that under eth
I want to see players trying hard for their teammates and fans.
I think I'll get that under eth.
I am very positive for the next few years and I hope the optimism that will be created will make most the fans happy.
Some will never be happy that's for sure.
Some will be frothing at the mouth to say I told you so and will hope the signings don't come off and that the struggles continue so the can fill post after post with negativity.
I think on the pitch we have a chance of a new begining.
Fans of the club need to concentrate on the football only.
It's all we can really influence and all the negativity is not helping the new coach nor the players in the longer term
There will never be a new begining while people want to concentrate and commentate and either make up or believe every piece of negativity about the club.
Stop looking backwards and link forwards is what I say.
I'm optimistic on eth we know redman is not so before we have a load of captain hindsight who is backing and behind the manager with optimism and who is not and is underwhelmed with his appointment like redman?
{Ed014's Note - I’m getting the impression you feel redman isn’t a fan of ETH. ?
12 Jul 2022 09:02:30
I've been watching the training.
TH has been involved in everything, attacking drills impressed me the most.
Punishing players for mistakes in training and screaming and making it known when they are not good enough.
Have to be honest under Ole didn't see any of that and it's left me feeling excited for a new season.
12 Jul 2022 09:06:06
Not at all ed014. He is underwhelmed by him and unconvinced but I'd imagine he would take him over ole.
I'm just interested to see who else has little or no optimism.
I know what goes on, on the pitch is secondary to a lot of posters who are a lot more interested in the ownership and they like jumping on every single negative piece of press to feed their appetite for negativity but there are also supporters who care more about what happens on the pitch than off it. Which is why I asked the question.
{Ed014's Note - it’s like anything new, no one knows what may happen.
He’s played a great style of football in a weaker league but got a team to a semi final in the champions league but as Pochettino has been described as a bottler does that also not count for ETH.
Had a final in the bag but when it mattered most failed.
The prem as we all know is a different ball game and like Arsenal your club has a rep for being weak mentally, that’s a big hurdle on its own for him to get over.
The other snag is the squad and I’ve said it many times but I wouldn’t have any of yours at Arsenal. I don’t think any of the other big 5 clubs would either.
Bonus is simply, he looks a better prospect than anyone post Fergie.
12 Jul 2022 09:41:08
I'm very optimistic. He took over a struggling Ajax team that hadn't won the league for 4 years. He built a young exciting team, developing player. His team got dismantled by sales and he rebuilt it, consistently achieving trophies.
He has a reputation for being a very strict, detail orientated coach who is extremely hard working. My only worry is we don't back him in the transfer market to get him the players he needs.
I'm really keen to see what he does with Bruno, we could see him in the false 9 position that Tadic took up in the first incarnation of his Ajax team. This would allow VdB to play the 10 role moving forward into the striker position as Bruno drops back, with VdB playing intricate passes. This was VdB's best position at Ajax and the reason we bought him, it also created a lot of goals. I always thought it a bit odd we bought both Bruno and VdB as they play the same position. If he opts for this, we would need as a minimum a RB that is good on the ball who can invert into midfield and also drive forward with the ball down the wing. A RW, Ziyech
and Antony are very different players but we need a RW to balance out the attack. And most importantly a CM that can do the FdJ/ Gravenbach type role (they did play slightly differently) but essentially the same role as this forms a huge part of the build up along with the full backs. As I say, in my opinion that's probably the bare minimum needed to play a similar style to his Ajax teams, the other positions could be upgraded over the next few transfer windows.
In the interim Varane and Maguire are decent enough on the ball, although seeing as EtH is in for Martinez he obviously wants to upgrade Maguire. Fred is dynamic enough to act as the DCM until we can get a replacement, for me Sangare is a stand out. Also a striker to give flexibility to the tactical options, someone who can hold it up and bring others in (Haller role last season) .
12 Jul 2022 09:45:41
Ken, If he can get a tune out of this current squad then I’m all for it. I said a few weeks ago, I just want the season to start so we don’t have to go through all the BS transfer window circus.
I like what I see in Ten Hag, his enthusiasm in the training clips and his style of play at Ajax.
If he sorts out central defence and midfield then I think we’ve got enough for top 4. The likes of Dalot, Sancho, VD Beek, and maybe even Martial and Rashford, who I think have been abysmal for 2 seasons, will benefit massively from some proper coaching.
If we achieve top 4 with a decent style of play then we’re heading in the right direction.
12 Jul 2022 09:49:50
This guy seems to know what he wants and how he want's to play.
It's pretty obvious that the transfer targets are his own picks and not the pick of some empty head who works in the office above.
I also think that ETH can get more out of this current squad than the previous managers.
If he can get FDJ over the line which looks more promising from the reports that are coming this morning that would be great.
It's obvious FDJ is a major part of how ETH wants us to play.
Martinez would be another good signing as he can play centre back and he can also cover that holding midfield role.
The only thing that worries me is the Ronaldo problem, this needs to be resolved before the new season.
ETH needs every player on board singing from the same sheet.
I feel excited for the coming season but i have said that a few times when Van Gaal and Mourinho were appointed.
12 Jul 2022 09:35:40
Ed014 i think your better more rounded and more mature than to assume a manager is a bottler because he lost a match they should win. Complete hyperbole.
That's a shappy statement fit for the daily sport.
{Ed014's Note - Ken you know I don’t think that but was pointing out managers are labelled as such simply because of a perceived failure like that.
Pochettino being one of those along with Ole being another example.
12 Jul 2022 09:45:16
Good point on the mentality ed014.
Yes it's in my opinion the biggest hurdle he has to face.
Ole destroyed the clubs mentality.
In my opinion many of the fans are destroying the clubs mentality.
He has many hurdles to overcome so that's why we can't expect miracles.
At a big club a new manager usually dies not have to build from ground zero but between ole and R R they left the next manager in the basement below ground zero.
{Ed014's Note - definitely mate and hopefully he’s on top of that already on the training ground.
Ole was definitely the final nail in the coffin, it used to make me cringe watching and listening to the utter tripe he spouted.
I honestly believe he couldn’t believe his own luck when he got the job and then just winged it from there on in and dragged you down when you least needed it.
ETH is a proper manager in my book and is taking a big step up which in itself is another positive because he obviously has faith in his ability.
12 Jul 2022 09:59:19
I'm very optimistic regards ETH but unfortunately he needs to be backed properly by the board and the owners.
So far this window the board have not done that, however there is still time to do so.
If De Jong, Eriksen, Malacia, Martinez, Anthony, Dumfries come in and Ronaldo stays, he will have been backed properly and we can definitely achieve 4th, 3rd or even 2nd if City or Liverpool have a big blip. However if Ronaldo goes and is not replaced and the names mentioned, or others, don't come in then we could finish 8th.
I do believe we got the right man in terms of playing style and commitment to get the team up to the required fittness levels. Doing that with good signings as well, will get us back in the top 4.
What might prove tricky is assembling a squad to match City or Liverpools with some real quality in there.
Even if ETH does all of the above we still may not win any of the top prizes with Klopp and Pep around.
We just need to be patient and give him what he needs to get us back up there challenging. This is all we can ask as fans as nobody has a devine right to win things.
12 Jul 2022 10:06:05
We did a poll last year and ETH came top so the majority on here want him. He is young and relatively inexperienced but is highly thought of, Pep is a huge fan.
If the reports about his rules and standards are true then that's good news, it's about time someone got a grip of these players, his high profile presence on the training pitch is also a huge plus, perhaps we will have a defined style and approach now.
Red Man is hugely respected on here, including by me, but we do differ when it comes to Managers. I never wanted Mourinho near our club and also don't think Conte was what we needed. ETH has huge potential so it may take sometime, but I'm looking forward to seeing what a proper coach can achieve.
12 Jul 2022 10:13:10
Ken, I am very optimistic that given the time and resources he needs (not what the club think) that we will see success under Eth.
I am realistic that this will take time and whilst we need to see progression next season that the true success of his tenure will be the 2nd/ 3rd seasons after he has had time to fully bed his style into the players, get rid of players he will be stuck with next season and bring more players in that he wants and fits his style over the next 3/ 4 transfer windows.
We as a fan base need to not jump on the players and manager when things do not go well next season, which at points will happen. Whether that is a blip of extended period. We need to have faith (earned by seeing and understanding the plan) that in the long run the methods will be successful.
I am okay with any fan not currently being positive, we know that EtH was not a universal choice and there has been nothing since to prove to those people that it was right to go this route. Similarly there would have been others if Pochitino had been chosen, and that's okay. I am hoping that the style, progression over the first few months will give hope that we are moving forward.
I still think we need patience in this window, we all want the next big shiny thing but it needs to have a purpose. De Jong for me does that for EtH and whether we think there are other options if as it appears we can get him that is one long term cog that will speed up the progression to EtH's style. we can then build around that. Without him I feel we will have a lesser version next year and try to move to that in year 2.
The existing players will see his style as a breath of fresh air, they are not imune to the negativity that has been around the club and I think the way he is, the style of coaching will suit what they need for now. Even the drills and punishments (push ups if you concede etc) are great training methods that grow team morale and camoradorie whilst also pushing you that extra bit.
I think we for the first time in a long while have a manager with a plan, a board structure that is willing to work with the manager and heed what he wants not what they think he wants (within a tight budget) .
Now let's see it on the pitch, hopefully today we see a glimpse of it. can't expect much after just a week.
12 Jul 2022 10:18:17
What I think is a little different to what I hope for.
I want to be enjoying the matches again= its been a while.
That involves a system and getting the players buying into it. I think ETH may well pull that off but I do worry that he is, like every other manager, dealing with a bunch of spoilt brats to some degree. If he continues to crack the whip (which is needed) I hope the club back him even if the players revolt: after all many are only there for a short time of their careers anyway.
He gives the impression of calm but stern and most of all so far gets among the squad and is very much a doer not a pretender. I wish him luck and forecast that it will be all over until it gels with the right personnel at his disposal, so dothery start coming good January and a solid finish with a shout at a trophy. Europa might be a decent chance.
12 Jul 2022 10:21:04
Very happy with his appointment. I probably would have leant more on the Pochettino side of the fence last year. Having said that, I'm very impressed with how he's handled himself so far.
To sit in an interview at one of the biggest clubs in the world and start to turn the tables and interview United is a great sign. He wasn't afraid to point out everything we had been doing wrong. Compare that with out previous manager and it's night and day. This was a manager who's stock was rising in the football world and he wanted to know if Man Utd could meet HIS ambitions.
We have a manager on an upward trajectory for the first time since Fergie. One of the main issues with Ole which was pointed out very early by some of us was that he never implemented any style, simply because he didn't know how to. Ten Hag made a decision about Ralf which was the right one. He's his own man and wants things done his way.
If you read about his time at Utrecht, he was incredibly pragmatic and methodical. Identified the club's weaknesses and set out a plan to fox them. Bought shrewdly and players that could match his system. When he sold players the club then used the money to invest in the facilities and he would go out again and find more players to improve. There was a clear plan on the pitch and a plan off it.
Most people would know about his time at Ajax and maybe being the big fish in the small pond is an easy gig when it comes to developing players. But that fish went into the ocean and held their own.
It's different gravy at United and it will take time but I think we have the perfect man in charge. I'm not sure exactly where we'll finish but I think we can safely say that we will be improving consistently over time. One or two of these players that were on the scrap heap might just surprise us when they're being managed by a proper coach.
I just want to enjoy watching United again. I just want to have some pride in their performances and I think we have the man that won't allow players to stagnate, he won't accept mediocrity and that's a recipe for success.
12 Jul 2022 10:32:04
I'm massively optimistic by the appointment and what he can achieve given the resources we can give him.
I just hope he's given more time than most to implement his ideas and for the side to start showing them on the pitch. When RR came in there was this huge unrealistic expectation that the moment they came out for his first game it would be a massively transformed side. It wasn't. In fact it got worse and worse. It will take time, but I hope to see much more effort and defensive organisation from the off, if not yet the quicker passing and pressing.
12 Jul 2022 11:21:24
I can't wait to see how he does, I think he could be a great appointment.
The players and fans have to buy into this and give him the time to really implement his plans. We have to be patient and accept there may be some short term pain before longer term success. A realisation of where we are in terms of quality has to be the most important thing. We will not be competing for the league but we need to establish ourselves as the best of the rest over the next couple of years then push on from there.
12 Jul 2022 11:27:00
He's a great appointment, I'm even more convinced by watching the 3 part documentary sky did on him. He is exactly what club needs.
But I fear the mechanics in the background will fail him and he will end up like everyone else.
My expectation of him and this team is top 4 and some good cup runs, hopefully one ending with a trophy.
If he can do that, he will then be able to bend the board more to his will, this giving him an even greater chance to succeed long term
Football is a funny old game that can change very quickly. Players are all built off the back of confidence. If ETH can get to grips with this bunch, show them how it's done, instil a confidence in them, get some results from the off, anything is possible.
12 Jul 2022 12:00:13
I am happy with eth as manager based on the positive things said about him and the small glimpses of coaching I have seen so far. I really have no idea how the season will go as it will take time for him to assess the players and find out who can do what he asks. I agree with some comments above though and think he needs time and backing from the board, players and fans to implement fully his ideas. I am expecting some players to struggle if they don't buy in to his ideas and previous evidence is eth will get rid quickly if any players attitude or application is not what is required so board will need to back this. As fans I personally am looking for an improvement in tactics and desire in year 1 and have no real criteria on what constitutes failure or success league/ Cup wise but hope to see there is obvious progression. I think we will have a better idea a few months into the season but at least I feel this manager has the potential to improve some players and define set tactic/ shape.
12 Jul 2022 12:19:16
This can't be Ed014, he's making too much sense these days! ??????????.
On a side note, ETH will get himself the sack keeping some of this dross here, giving them *another* chance and keep this joke as a captain, setting himself up for failure unfortunately.
{Ed014's Note - Oi! ??
12 Jul 2022 12:20:14
Ken, I'm absolutely behind ETH and wanted him more than any other manager. He's taken Ajax to a different level where they're competing consistently in Europe and looking very comfortable playing against the so called bigger teams.
He has a philosophy of playing which more in keeping with United than Moyes, LVG, mourinho and solskjaer.
I like Poch too, but I feel ETH has the right character to do a great job at United.
The last person I wanted was Simione, he's another manager who plays destructive, boring football,
and we've already had a few of them.
A point that several have made and I've been saying for some time, is that the club have to back him completely, not only in the transfer window, but also in any calls he makes on players. If he says a player is not good enough, the club has to sell the player even at a loss. We can't be hanging on to the likes of Martial, Jones, Bailly, Pereira, lingard, pogba etc. In future if ETH says a player is not right, then he should be gone in the next transfer window.
12 Jul 2022 12:22:10
I'm excited by his style. Previous 3 or 4 managers were less ridged in their coaching style, particularly in the attacking 3rd. This squad needed a complete reset and EtH is very different. Hoping that a bit of him telling them where and when to be somewhere will wake a few of them up.
Remains to be seen if his Ajax style can be successful in the EPL. I suspect he is going to play DvdB alot, but so far he has been less than impressive. Maybe EtH piecing the puzzle together makes all the difference.
If he gets his targets from Barcelona and Ajax we could be quite a small and light weight team, with a keeper who likes to stay home on crosses. This is just as the top two teams have bought two excellent big number 9s.
That said, I am optimistic. I also think EtH may take a bit of time figuring some of these issues out, like Guardiola did. But he seems to be the right character to try and build a team to challenge.
12 Jul 2022 12:55:26
Thanks guys.
Ajh nobody respects redman more than me.
We are aligned most of the time to be honest but not on this.
Poch was my first choice tbh. But the decision was made and I'd rather get behind him respect the decision than to pretend I know better.
It seems pretty universal tht most everybody has a degree of optimism and are not underwhelmed.
I think a lot of fans want to concentrate on football.
Nice thread a of of regulars responded to the question.
You could have hand picked a few that have not.
It seems at times its more important to run the club team players and board down than it is to support them.
I've no doubt at all that if united improve and start winning again a dividend won't be mentioned by 99% of fans. But some fans will never be happy.
End of season will be judgement day for me.
Really hoping for continuous improvement at the season goes on.
12 Jul 2022 14:19:34
I'm very optimistic about this season. I do not expect a title challenge, top four and a good cup run would be great, but I just want to see improvement right across the board. Better coaching, better tactics, more effort and better performances.
I really rate EtH and think he is an excellent appointment, a manager that the likes of Bayern Munich, Juventus etc would go for.
I enjoy his style of play, and I appreciate his work with young players, developing them into top class players.
Were there better options out there? Maybe. I also would have been happy with Pochettino, although I'd have EtH a shade ahead of him as his star seems to be on the rise, whereas Pochettino's seems to be stalling somewhat. So for me EtH had the momentum. Also he is supposedly a stronger disciplinarian than Poch and I think this squad needs that strong structure and leadership.
The other thing I'm happy with is that currently it looks like all our transfer targets are exclusively picked out by EtH, they look to be backing him as much as they can. Fighting it out for FDJ, going for Eriksen and Malacia, and pursuing deals for Martinez and Antony. While they also tried to get Timber.
All those players are clearly EtH targets and not club targets.
Maybe things will change a bit as the window progresses. Maybe Antony isn't possible, or FDJ deal falls through and the club need to work on other targets.
Yet the clear intent so far seems to be backing EtH to the hilt. Which is a refreshing change from recent years.
I haven't yet seem much to complain about, or be concerned about.
12 Jul 2022 15:38:40
I’m happy with the appointment, was praying we didn’t get Pochettino as although he’s a good coach his body language was all negative for me and I was never fully convinced of his cv. ETH brings a philosophy and so far the signs are there that he’s getting the full backing of the board. Albeit, I’d like them to back him with a decent kitty as I don’t we are working with a great deal of capital.
In terms of maybe a better candidate………I don’t think there was. I think we got the best man out there for us.
Of course, only time will tell, he might win the league in his first season or we might struggle. I think if he gets the players he wants and we diversify our attacking options then why can’t we grab 4th.
Either way. All I’m hoping for this season is a team who try and play a bit of stuff in the final 3rd. The amount of times I left early last season probably exceeds the times I stayed until the end. And that’s never been like me.
12 Jul 2022 16:17:25
Sorry ken, I wasn't having a dig but I can see how that might have come across. I wanted to highlight I respected him, before I disagreed with him. ?.
12 Jul 2022 16:26:30
I am hopeful, I think EtH will prov3 to be a good appointment and I like what I see and hear regarding him.
I remain to be convinced the support is in place in terms of building the squad and getting him what he needs.
Really I want to see progress, I want to see us implement a new system and develop in that system over the years. I know the pieces are not going to all be in place by the end of next summers transfer window but we should at least start climbing the first few rungs of the ladder from the depth we ended last season on.
12 Jul 2022 17:08:40
Ajh no issue. I'm not one of the snowflakes. ?
Redman and I are aligned on many things tbh.
12 Jul 2022 19:59:28
Evening
Hard day at work and the trail of posts to read is long. ETH, I am not against him at all, unlike I was with Moyes and very definitely Ole. Moyes and Ole had no pedigree at all, obvious from the beginning, their failure was expected, at least by me and one or two others.
I take a view on each manager, I see what they have done, often the cut of their jib as the old saying goes, how they handle themselves. ETH. Ok, very good coach, technical, very organised, was with Ajax who were the top club there to be shot at so knows the territory. He got teams over the line and importantly brought youth through and that may be vital. Circa three years ago United made big investments in young talent, they need a chance, if they are good enough. Why am I not enthusing over ETH? Seen it before from McGuiness, OFarrell we were told they are going to be great. I guess I have a little uncertainty over his actual level and whether he can break beyond the Dutch players, at a club that doesn’t have everything aligned to take players on a journey to the first team, where the pressure is many times higher. At the moment we seem to be chasing Dutch players he knows, safety in his comfort zone. That’s ok at the beginning but we also need a broader approach to wider and more varied skill sets. I think he needs to show a wider appeal and drive and perhaps that will come, safety first Dutch players could improve us but can he diversify, can he attract other players to the project, based on him, that is a question. He will bring a structure, I hope we see what Ole was incapable of doing, set a pattern of play. I believe we will, ETH starts at a minus position so can see a greater improvement starting from there. Leadership is vital, SAF was a great leader, waiting to see his leadership.
I am certainly not against him, nor am I skeptical, nor underwhelmed, just still to be convinced, that is where I am. I wanted Klopp and they appointed LvG, I wanted PEP yet missed and ended up with Jose. This is a more thought through appointment, so I am not starting as I did with Ole, in a negative way, it’s almost a watching brief, see the patterns, the youth development, the ingame management, what he does when we are down. I hope Ken is right, for all our sakes.