11 Jul 2022 09:13:32
Serious question guys.
Is there anything happening in the transfer market that makes you think you can make top 4.
You need to finish above either Chelsea or Spurs (and as Spurs seem to me to be recruiting really well so that I think they may have a realistic title chance) that means you need to finish above Chelsea!
11 Jul 2022 09:42:50
Most important signing has been the manager.
Spurs recruitment has been overrated for me. Bissouma is a good player, but lenglet isn’t great, Richarlison is overrated. Persic isn’t getting younger but will add a bit of depth. Can’t see them on a title charge.
11 Jul 2022 09:48:09
Even with the signings Tottenham have a far inferior squad to both Liverpool and City so cannot see them being consistent enough to challenge for the league.
Whether we can get above either of them will not be an easy task but the upside to having so many players on bad form is that form isn't permanent.
Now that we have a hands on manager giving them detailed tactics and instructions (neither Ole or Rangnick were present in training sessions) I am hoping the players will look less lost on the field and we will see resurgent form from at least a few of them.
11 Jul 2022 10:08:50
Even with no further signings after Eriksen is confirmed we will be better than last season. Spurs should be favourites to get into the top 4 along with the other 3 sides but I'd still say we will finish ahead of Arsenal as it stands.
I'd still suggest there are more than likely to be another 3 or 4 players coming in though.
11 Jul 2022 10:13:26
Agree with Caolan but also, Pogba and Lingard leaving I think we’ll see a big change in attitude. Yes, only 2 players but 2 big characters who I think were very influential/ dominant in the changing room and within the squad. This squad finished 2nd under Jose and Ole and arguably, with, imo a weaker squad then our now current squad with potentially more players to come in. City, unfortunately are the bench mark ? We know what can be done with a good coach from what Liverpool have done. Then it’s, IMO a coin toss between United, Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal. I think Tottenham currently the strongest of the 4, Arsenal the weakest and then not sure there is much between us and Chelsea based off our new manager and current/ potential transfers in and out.
I want at least 3rd, a cup and hopefully the UEFA Cup or at least a good run. Think all this is realistic too.
11 Jul 2022 10:18:31
Otts, I think Conte is a fantastic manager and he’s managed to get spurs to buy very very well, very quickly. He won the league with Victor Moses, Cahill, Pedro. He obviously knows how to get the best out of the players he wants to fit his system. I think Spurs are going to be difficult for us to catch unless Ten Hag gets 5-6 more players.
Chelsea is an interesting one, it will be interesting to see how the new owner operates in the transfer market. Going for Ronaldo, the polar opposite from a touchel player will tell us a lot of it’s true/ happens.
I believe we have a quality manager in EtH, I do worry about our transfer activity though, we haven’t really got the RB, LCB, DCM, CM, RW or FW to play the type of football EtH has played with the two incarnations of his Ajax team. Sometimes though it can be a blessing in disguise as it means youth players have to step up.
11 Jul 2022 11:14:03
There is a typical thing that happens amoungst United fans.
We always seem to think every signing a rival makes will make them much stronger and will be a top class signing for them, while simultaneously assuming every signing United make will flop or not meet expectations.
The thing is a great team can sign a great player and even if they do really well will only marginally make them better.
Yet a average team signing a great player can make a massive difference. We have even seen that recently with Bruno. He came in and made a massive difference. If we sign 5 players this summer and 2 of them have a similar impact to Bruno then we'll be massively improved on last season.
That's without factoring in that we have a top class new coach, who in theory should get the existing players to play better than last season.
If he can improve the existing players by 10-15 points, while the new players can improve the team by 10-15 points then we will have a squad that in theory could be 20-30 points better off next season which would give us between 78-88 points.
Last season Chelsea and Spurs finished with 74 and 71 points respectively.
Even just 20 points better off would have got us 3rd last season. So no reason to think we won't be right in the mix for the places between 5th and 3rd.
That's without considering that Spurs could implode with Conte at any moment. Or that Tuchel hasn't really improved Chelsea since his original bounce.
11 Jul 2022 11:43:36
'Just' the extra 20 points?
11 Jul 2022 12:10:58
I think so. Chelsea had a terrible second half to the season and have not yet addressed their defensive issues. The Tuchel effect has worn off, as it did in his other jobs, so let’s see.
Spurs have been surprisingly efficient in the window, but barring Bissouma none of their other signings I’d want to see at Old Trafford.
Arsenal - you just don’t know what you’re going to get with them.
As for us - it’s exciting to see what ETH can do with this group and a couple of editions.
11 Jul 2022 12:15:41
Some of the people on here are beyond deluded.
We have lost players that were regular starters last season, and brought in a grand total of one backup left back.
Yet, people think we’re getting a 20 point bounce on the back of a new manager.
Our squad is poor. This is a direct result of persistent transfer mistakes, particularly under Ole. The likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB, Dalot, Martial, and, on current form, Rashford are not good enough for a top 4 side. But they will be playing an integral role in our squad, unless the club brings in new players.
ETH is a very promising young manager. But it’s hanging him out to dry to expect him to work miracles with this shower of wasters. If the club doesn’t back him in the transfer market, he won’t turn things around. Simple as. Without allowing a new manager to recruit players to fit his system, they’re on a hiding to nothing.
11 Jul 2022 12:16:43
Shappy, in theory? Your theories are always bonkers mate ?.
11 Jul 2022 12:34:49
Who have we lost that were regular starters? Pogba? Lingard? Mata? Matic? I may have to look up the definition of regular.
11 Jul 2022 12:46:26
Shappy, you talk about 15-20 extrapoints as if they're easy to get. Bonkers.
As Danny says, we will gain nothing even with a good coach like ETH unless the club back the manager with transfers. And this not happening at present.
I actually think we'll get the Fdj transfer done, but we need a lot more than that. A striker, a right back, a defensive midfielder and a centre back.
We are more or less halfway through the transfer window and the season is only few weeks away, and we've only signed a left back.
The rest have strengthened massively and even Chelsea will have Sterling on board. So, how are we suddenly going to gain another 15-20 points? It's fanciful to think ETH will just wave a magic wand and everything will be fine.
It's not going to be fine unless the club back the manager.
11 Jul 2022 12:51:20
Pogba generally played when fit. Matic was a regular starter when fit. Cavani was our back up striker.
That’s 3 players who have not been replaced.
Even if Ronaldo stays, Martial or Rashford are our only back up strikers.
Pogba has not been replaced.
Matic has not been replaced.
11 Jul 2022 12:57:57
Don't forget spurs have signed Spence who will be the best rb in the league next year.
Oh wait they still have not got the deal done have they aaa. Should they pull out what are their amatures doing?
Aaa you won't be happy if eth does well as you will still be disgruntled your more interested in ownership and boardroom strategy than you are the actual football so you won't be happy ever.
11 Jul 2022 13:26:03
Ken, you're slowly becoming an apologist for this incompetent boardroom lol.
11 Jul 2022 13:45:56
No I'm not at all angel. I would like the glazers to leave as quick as the next man.
Imo this is a new begining on the pitch it's where all our focus should be.
The owners will take the dividends they are entitled to as owners.
They are entitled to more tbf. They have spent over 1 billion of their money on new players.
Yes it's been spend badly but they didn't have to didn't that much they could have taken it out of the club.
The club lost money last year and they get pelters for taking a few million out but in the same breath we want them to spend yet another 150m on players. Where is that money coming from?
If fans think its irresponsible to take dividends out on a bad financial year do they think its financially sold to spend another 200m on players?
I don't make apologies for them I just point out they are doing nothing illegal immoral or wrong. Just because you don't like a situation doesn't mean that by stamping your feet and making a whole lot of noise that it helps. The club is in good shape financially despite forking out over a billion on players recently.
I would like everyone to concentrate on the football show support.
You and I both know that if the team is doing well and winning and improving less ignorant comments about dividends and the likes will happen.
I honestly don't know why some people support the club they have not got 1 good thing to say about the club.
Sure some transient employees deserve criticism in fact plenty do but the club needs support now imo in order to give eth the best chance. Just my opinion.
11 Jul 2022 13:52:45
Angel,
If your partner is ugly but you love them you don't go around telling everybody they are ugly.
If others want to call your partner an ugly dog that's their prerogative but I don't think you should be joining in.
11 Jul 2022 13:55:03
AAA, we drew 10 games and lost 13 last season.
Turn half those draws into wins and that's an extra 10 points.
Last season we drew to:
Chelsea X2, Southampton X2, Leicester, Watford, Burnley, Villa, Newcastle and Everton.
Just get the players we have playing to their potential and there are easily 5 games we could win there.
While we lost to:
Liverpool X2, City X2, Arsenal, Villa, Leicester, Wolves, Watford, Palace, Everton and Brighton.
Looking at that lot there are at least 5 games we should have won give the quality we have (Watford, Palace, Brighton, Wolves and Everton) . Which is we turn those 5 losses into wins is an extra 15 points.
Some would argue that we probably should be beating Villa and Leicester as well.
What you're suggesting is that even with the players we have, we shouldn't be expecting to get wins against the likes of Watford, Burnley, Palace, Southampton, Brighton Wolves, Villa and Everton.
Two of which got relegated, and another 3 finished in 14th place or lower.
With no new signings and just getting the current players to play to their potential should get us an extra 20 points. I've just named 10 results that should have been wins last season that would have got us an extra 25 points.
11 Jul 2022 14:26:32
Hey Shappy, whilst I understand the theory. Without replacements/ additions drawing and losing that many games is our reality. There are some really really good technical breakdown videos on YouTube about our tactical set up etc under RR vs Ole. The most telling part is we were way more structured under RR, the players however were just not capable of doing the tasks required. Pressing from the front as an example, the players were just bad at it, formation wise they were in the right position they just sucked at it. Playing out from the back, Mctominay would sit in a blind pocket effectively taking himself out as a passing option thus making us predictable and susceptible to the press. Maguire getting pulled out of position with traps, out of possession Bruno running around like a headless chicken with no output.
My worry is, whilst EtH has shown himself to be flexible as a manager and willing to play to a teams strengths, he does however in recent years have a preferred way of playing. The squad as I can see, doesn’t posses they attributes to play that way. The fullbacks can’t invert centrally as they are not technically good enough on the ball, they also struggle driving forward. We haven’t got a DM to mop up and protect the CB’s, we haven’t got a CM that can drop back and drive forward breaking the midfield line pushing the team forward, no right wing making us offensively predictable.
Correcting the imbalances needed to play anything like the 2 versions of EtH Ajax systems is going to be difficult.
11 Jul 2022 14:40:55
*that should be lost 12, typo.
11 Jul 2022 14:57:12
Me (an idiot) - I can’t see a club that hasn’t improved their squad, while their opponents have, getting a 20 point bounce just by hiring a new manager.
Shappy (an intellectual) - well, if the team had actually won more games last season, they would have easily had more points.
11 Jul 2022 14:59:38
I tend to agree with Shappy that a proper manager, having been relieved of a number of distractions and poseurs, should be able to get more out of this squad. There was a period in RRs reign when we actually played quite well but couldn't score, losing games we should have won. We also conceded pathetic energy sapping goals at critical times. After that the confidence dried up and the team capitulated. If EtH can get the best out of what we have I see no reason why we should not be able to at least compete for top 4 and, even if they don't make it, maybe winning the Europa.
For starters, Rashford, Sancho, Bruno, Shaw, Maguire and Varane have all shown themselves capable of playing better than they did last season.
11 Jul 2022 15:52:45
Rewz, I have two counter points. Firstly, not all coaches are created equal. It is entirely possible that EtH is a better coach and is better at developing players and educating them to do the right things at the right times.
Secondly, if you as an observer had to make a guess what percentage of effort do you think the players were putting in last season? Personally at times they didn't even seem to be putting in 50% effort let alone anything close to 100%.
Which begs the question, if the manager was better able to educate and motivate the players last season would we have won more games?
McTominay standing in the blind spot when the CB's have the ball is something that he can be taught. It's a fairly simple fix. It's not like asking a legless man to run faster. Same thing with pressing, some players tried, some didn't and most didn't know when they should do it or how. That doesn't mean its beyond them, just that they weren't taught in a way that got the message across.
If players like Bruno, Rashford, Sancho, Maguire, Shaw, McTominay etc gave 100% and hit their best form last season we would have been 20 points better off at least.
This group of players do not have the ability to challenge for a title as it stands, but we aren't asking or expecting that. They are more than good enough to finish in the top four if they give 100% effort and are coached/ educated to play in a manner that gets the best out of them.
{Ed014's Note - you really are in a dream world! ?♂️
11 Jul 2022 16:07:56
Well done Danny, nice sarcasm. I won't point out the form of wit that is.
We see a new manager bounce all the time, sometimes during a season it can be enough to save a club from relegation, other times it can carry them to a UCL title.
We've just made the managerial equivalent of moving from a Robin Reliant to a Ferrari Testarossa, in moving from Ole to EtH.
We've gone from a manager most Championship sides wouldn't consider to a manager most top European sides would consider.
You'd expect to see quite a difference in performance wouldn't you?
Can you hand on heart tell me that 95% of our squad last season played the best they could? Or did you see many players play well below their best?
Are you honestly telling me that this current group of Manchester United players aren't and shouldn't be beating the likes of Watford, Burnley, Southampton, Everton and Villa? All teams that finished in the bottom 7 last season.
Are they not good enough to win against Palace, Brighton, Wolves or Newcastle?
Are you seriously telling me that those 8 teams have a better first 11 and squad than us?
Only 4 of the 15 sides we dropped points against last season finished above us. So that's at least 11 sides we were better than last season who we dropped points against.
We don't need EtH to make this side better than City or Liverpool next season to finish in the top four. Just beat most of the sides that they are better than and we are well in with a shout.
However, that is an uncomfortable truth for most fans to take, fans who just want to see shiny new signings for mega money.
11 Jul 2022 16:18:48
Haha ken, fair analogy. But I don't love united like I love my girlfriend so I can be honest and call a spade a spade. they're as ugly as you can get.
11 Jul 2022 16:48:13
Not a nice thing to say about your Mrs and her sister angel??.
11 Jul 2022 16:20:12
Come on ed014, it's a really simple fix, any idiot could do it.
Except Jose, Ole and Rangnick.
{Ed014's Note - ???
11 Jul 2022 16:58:26
I’d argue that rehashed cliched quotes are the lowest form of wit, but hey.
Having watched the majority of this squad fail 3 consecutive managers, I have zero confidence in their ability to perform at a consistently high level.
A manager can only succeed if he has players capable of implementing this strategy. Given what RR said about these players, and Jose too, I very much doubt they can implement what ETH wants. That’s why he wants to bring in at least 3 more first choice players.
Every team has games they think they should have won. Good squads tend to win more often than not.
11 Jul 2022 17:08:19
Angel that's not fair only 2 of those were idiots.
Jose is no idiot.
11 Jul 2022 17:39:36
1 manager to freak show attractions Danny not 3 managers.
11 Jul 2022 18:53:12
The Glazers have not put one solitary cent of their own money into the club, let alone £1Bn, let’s have that right. If you can find one investment into the club in any accounts since they arrived please post it.
The same people magicking up 15 to 20 points are probably the same ones who told me the 11 points SAF won the league by in 2013 were too much for Moyes to give up in his first season.
11 Jul 2022 19:17:46
What Rangnick and Jose have forgotten about football, we would never be able to learn. RR is far from an idiot.
Fair kop about the sister ken ??.
11 Jul 2022 19:26:58
Well said Red Man. Up the 1958.
11 Jul 2022 19:45:31
I mean the proof will be in the pudding. Either we'll end up 20 points better off next season or we won't. At least one of us will have egg on their face.
11 Jul 2022 20:06:04
Redman every penny the cub generates belongs to the shareholders.
They have a choice on what to do with that money that their business has generated. So they decided albeit in vein despite being the biggest spenders in world football to spend the money on players.
They don't need to make payments into their own profitable business that would be daft and you know it.
How much of their own cash do any 100m plus business put into it when it's profitable. You know that so it's a silly point to make.
You don't like the way they bought the club and the way they milk it but they are not doing anything wrong from a business perspective from a shareholders point of view.
So you wish it was different I think we all do.
We wish they would have put 500m into infrastructure.
If they first 300m on players had been spent better and recruitment on the coaching and playing side had been better then maybe just maybe there would have been money to spend on the infrastructure too instead of spending more money on players than any other club in the world.
I hope they sell I think we all do but until then we have to hope this coach can turn things around on the pitch again.
All the negativity towards the owners will dissipate to a large degree when the team is more successful once again.
But the fans like yourself and many others on here that keep banging on with all the negativity about every single aspect of the club are not helping the coach the players or anybody else.
I've said many times this is potentially a new begining ON THE PITCH. I think that's all the fans should concentrate on. It's all as fans we can really influence.
We have ridded the club of the worst manager in my living memory. A manager who brought expectations to new lows and killed all hope on the pitch.
If the new guy has any chance he needs people including players and fans to start looking forwards not backwards.
Imo he has nothing to prove to us we have plenty to prove to him as fans.
Again that's just my opinion.
11 Jul 2022 20:12:39
Angel has RRBeen a good manager for any club ever at the top level?
I never said he didn't know plenty about football but he is a very unsuccessful coach and football manager.
His record here was shockingly bad. Blame the players all you like and don't get me wrong they were pathetic and horrible but its a managers job to get the team playing for him.
His tenure exposed plenty of the players but his approach also exposed him and its clear why he has never been able to win with a squad over a sustained period anywhere.
He is a strategist not a coach. Intl football might suit him better a bit like Southgate. As a player you can put up with him for a couple of weeks but not daily for years I'd imagine.
11 Jul 2022 21:52:18
I think RR was on a hiding to nothing. I don't think you can judge him on his tenure here. Last season was terrible.
RR is well thought of by various coaches and footballing people on Europe, who am I to disagree?
Very unsuccessful? I think he's had minor successes with smaller clubs but is credited for helping and nurturing some now very successful coaches and also building clubs.
As I said, he is far from an idiot. Going back to shappy's original point about McT, if it was that simple, it would've been done.
11 Jul 2022 23:21:04
He is not a good football manager. Never had been. He has talents but he never had a job at a top club as a manager because he never did very well at managing football teams as head coach.
So he is good at mentoring coaches but not at coaching and managing players at the top level.