Manchester United banter 90819


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23 Jun 2022 12:57:41
Second United FDJ bid imminent according to reports, let's hope if true that it's enough to seal the deal.
Do you see us getting this deal over the line Ed01?

{Ed001's Note - Barca have to raise funds, as I mentioned in the review of the day they are about to take on a 1.5bn euro mortgage to renovate their training ground, on top of their already obscene debts. I am sure he will have to leave.}

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Jun 2022 14:19:11
Fairly sure United know that and that is why this is playing out exactly how it is. No rush, we are getting the player for years, an extra week won’t make much difference.

23 Jun 2022 15:01:42
Honestly I do read your review Ed ? that is insane what you just said. No worries there then.

{Ed001's Note - it shocked me as well, 1.5bn is insane.}

23 Jun 2022 16:28:06
Let's hope no one else comes in for him GDS.

In fairness we have only known about pogba leaving for a short while lol. Never any rush with this club.

23 Jun 2022 17:45:16
Wow a 1.5bn loan is incredible. It's always been the case though that Real Madrid and Barcelona will never be allowed to go under. I thought their 'new money' was about 700m euros which was big enough as was!

23 Jun 2022 18:51:03
Barcelona was an ownership model that redman was using to compare to ours. Told me that this was a model we should be aspiring to.
I'm glad we have the glazers compared to the guys that have caused Barcelona this heartache.

23 Jun 2022 20:39:26
Talksport (i know) on in the car 1 hour ago saying Barcelona have bid 34 mill for Lewondowski today.

23 Jun 2022 21:11:35
Ken, to be honest with what little I know of running a football club the only top side I really rate as being an excellently run club top to bottom is Bayern Munich.

Dominate their league, bring in huge revenue, have a great footballing structure that puts football at the forefront of their business strategy, they don't over spend, they have a clear idea about recruitment, they typically handle changes in management really well, knowing when to hit the button and when to stick it out, while they make few poor appointments and are swift to fix things when they do.

Just a well run ship, at least from the outside looking in.

Beyond them though I don't see too many models that I'd like to see implemented at United. So many clubs in huge debt, so many clubs flip-flop, so many clubs eaten up by internal politics and power struggles.

23 Jun 2022 23:17:24
What is everybody's obsession with debt?

24 Jun 2022 07:40:38
It’s no surprise the best run club is part owned by fans with the least debt.

People care about debt because it costs money ken, its not rocket science is it.

24 Jun 2022 07:50:43
Ken, I think a combination of several factors make many United fans have concerns over the debt.

Firstly, when the Glazers were attempting to take over the club David Gill came out and said that debt is the road to ruin.

Secondly, most of us don't run multinational companies and have little to no concept of corporate debt.

Thirdly, it's an easy thing to blame for the club's malaise over the past 10 years. It's easy to suggest the debt the Glazers placed on the club is the reason for us not being able to compete. Rather than accepting that the club has spent 1.4bn in the last 10 years, more than pretty much every other club. It isn't that we haven't had money to spend, just that it's been spent very poorly. Even our current CEO has agreed that is the case.

Both Real Madrid and Barcelona have debt 3 or 4 times as high as the debt United have. Yet it hasn't stopped Real Madrid winning 5 of the last 9 UCL titles. With Barcelona winning one of the other 4 titles it means 6 of the last 9 UCL titles have been won by clubs in significantly more debt that ourselves. Proving that debt isn't necessarily prohibitive to winning titles.

I think United fans are just tired and exasperated at not having a competitive side for the past decade. Without a clear understanding of the structure at the club and who is responsible it's easier to blame the debt.

The club seems to be going through a total overhaul of staff. New coaching staff, new heads of scouting, new head of academy, new DoF, new technical director, new CEO, new head of finance/ negotiations.

It seems like the entire set up has been changed, yet the Ed's on here still feel like the club will be run in an amateurish fashion. Suggesting that the people calling the shots have stayed and that they are making the same mistakes.

It does seem that the club has a fascination with hiring people who aren't "best in class". Ed Woodward got a job he was ill-suited to leading to over 1bn leaving the club, most of it wasted. Evra said publicly that Matt Judge was difficult not get hold of for other clubs to discuss deals with. That might go some way to explaining the seemingly drawn out negotiations our fans have become accustomed with.

Both are now gone. Did the club look for best in class when replacing them? No they promoted from within to replace Woodward. While Thomas Keane who is replacing Judge is the brother of ex-United players Will and Michael Keane.

Our new DoF was promoted from within, Ex-player Darren Fletcher was hired for a role that no one can explain and he certainly has no experience of.

Murtaugh's new assistant is a former academy coach.

We seem obsessed with hiring people with some sort of connection to the club rather than hiring the best people possible.

Many of the recent appointments have absolutely ZERO experience of doing the role they are now being paid to do.

For me this is the real issue at the club, not the debt. Why do we keep hiring people who do not have the experience to do the role, but have some connection to the club?

Is it driven by someone at the club who feels that the employees should have some connection to the club. Or is it more worryingly that they approached top professionals and none of them want to work for the club because they see problems they cannot surpass.

24 Jun 2022 08:10:19

The football model at Barca, the set style not the financial model

Obsession with debt? You said you understand business yet do you understand gearing and the debt situation within a business? I am not going into detail on a football page but debt can be good for a business, but it is what it is used for that matters. If the £600m had built us a new stadium, capital investment, that gave significant benefit to the business that can be good use of debt. The Glazers foisted £600m on the club that gained the club NO benefit whatsoever, nil nothing, only £1.2Bn outgoings on related items. That’s why the debt is important, why the Glazers have undermined the club and its future. Instead of using our financial advantage from 2003, putting us up there with Real, the Glazers not just brought us back to the pack, they have put us behind others. The extent is our CEO sitting with a beer in the pub telling punters we need money. A sad state of affairs.

24 Jun 2022 08:31:22
Redman you need to accept that the club is there to make money for the owners not to win trophies.
Their objectives are different to yours.
The debt to value ratio is very comfortable.
Nobody disputes that we would want owners that spend THEIR money that the club makes differently but they don't. From their perspective its a perfect situation.
The club is in a very sound financial position. No point stamping your feet. Nobody I'd defending them I'm just being realistic and factual from their point of view.
Of course I understand gearing and with their objectives everything is fine.
Our debt to value ratio is perfect for them.
They take no more or put no more debt on the club than any owners.
We would all rather they invest the infrastructure but they don't and in terms of selling and maximising their profit there is no reason why they should.
They will sell and know the market value and will make billions which is their objective.
We all wish they had different objectives but they don't.
They have invested more than any club in the world on the playing team but those they have employed have made a balls up of that.
Of that investment had come off there would be no noise about their dividends.



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