Manchester United banter 90733

 

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01 Jun 2022 19:39:47
All information points towards DeJong being happy at Barca, new house, champions league, says he's happy, yet all gossip says we are talking about the transfer, is it a just lying reports.

Agree0 Disagree0

01 Jun 2022 20:03:03
Both can be true the reason he's available is because Barcelona are struggling financially.

I believe if we can get an agreement with Barcelona the deal will happen until then frenkie will continue to say and probably want to stay at barca.

Personally i believe we will get him i'm not sure anyone else would commit the money required to sign him.

01 Jun 2022 20:06:38
This has got the feel of Moyes/ Fabregas to it. I say move on if he doesn’t want to come.

01 Jun 2022 20:11:26
Ridiculous, he doesn't want to come. Pursuing another player that doesn't want to be at the club. These guys are really a bunch of numpties.

01 Jun 2022 20:32:48
There is a difference between not wanting to come to united and not wanting to leave barca.

He doesn't want to leave Barcelona but if Barcelona need the money and are willing to sell that might change. He may need some "convincing" which would probably be, the plan going forward, and his part in it. Which i assume every play likes to know, but nothing out of the ordinary, especially with us in europa league and all the stories about our squad last year.

01 Jun 2022 20:33:13
Angelred, since you know it can you please provide the list of players who have personally informed you that they want to come here.
What do you expect a player to say until the deal is done? I am dying to get out of here?

01 Jun 2022 21:37:31
UA, he has strongly stated that he wants to stay and wants CL football. Out of the horse's mouth buddy.

He could have said nothing at all, that would have done. Instead he was straight out there stating how he doesn't want to come here. Not sure what more you need.

What are you talking about 'list of players' haha.

01 Jun 2022 21:36:45
If de Jong wanted to come the deal would've been done by now. But it looks like de Jong does not want to leave Barca.
Please move on and go after someone else. I don't rate the guy in any case, but we want committed players as we have plenty of idiots in our club who are not committed.

01 Jun 2022 22:12:55
Angel red think you need to listen again to his interview he says he would prefer to stay at Barcelona never mentioned champions league though i agree he would probably prefer we were in it but he never expressly said he wouldn't join united.

01 Jun 2022 22:17:22
If he doesn't want to come then move on, he's a good player and he's linked because of the new manager, but he he's made it clear he doesn't want to leave barca. We need to move on from wasring time chasing players that don't want to come.

02 Jun 2022 06:25:28
Brooks, he said enough for me. He didn't have to say anything at all. That tells me he wants to stay at Barcelona.

There are plenty of midfielders out there, let's focus on ones that want to come.

02 Jun 2022 08:46:38
Angel rio was happy to stay at Leeds read his comments from the time. Rooney was happy to stay at Everton. ' Everton is my team since a started playing football why would I want to leave to go to manchester'
Evra preferred a move to Barcelona at the time he was being signed.
Don't believe everything that's said.
Footballers are as inconsistent as shappy. Well nearly.

02 Jun 2022 10:13:20
I gave up long ago believing what is said publicly by any famous person mot just footballers or trying to analyse or find hidden meaning in words, it's basically guesswork.

02 Jun 2022 10:58:46
Agreed Oakbark, players are coached in how to handle the media and answer generic questions throughout the week.
You get the ones who can have a bit of banter or be more honest like Grealish or Maddison did this season.
Then you might get a Lukaku who tries to go off-piste and be a bit more cryptic, and when they do that things get blown up until they generally get what they want a few months later.
Typically though they're just robotic and are going to give the same generic schpiel to everything. Managers are the same.

It's obvious de Jong doesn't want to leave Barcelona but it seems he might not have a say in it, and his only choice is going to be where, not if. If he wants to win the CL then he's going to have to wait a while with Utd, but if he wants a stab at working under the manager who put him in the spotlight, playing in the best league and trying to restore what is still regarded as one of the biggest clubs in the world then why not.

02 Jun 2022 11:06:57
Ken, is this the Rio who handed in a transfer request at Leeds and his agent saying 'although loyal to Leeds, he would happily join Man Utd'.

Rooney was a blue, born and raised, playing for his boyhood club, and he was happy at Everton. But it was he who chose our club when he knew he had to leave.

De Jong, unprovoked, has come out with comments stating how he wants to stay at Barcelona and that he wants CL football (All in line with what Ed002 has told us)

Red flags all over this, and with our history of buying players who don't want to be here, I'd steer well clear, no matter how good he is.

02 Jun 2022 11:19:10
I'm not getting my panties in a wad over any rumors, press reports, player or agent statements. I don't want any player at the club who isn't 100% committed and trust - until proven wrong - that the ONE lesson management have learnt over the last decade is that paying over the odds to bring in prima donnas who are more worried about their hair and where their agent can ship them of to next, is a loser's game.

I have no idea who we will end up with, and in a way I actually don't care. The only criterion going forward is whether EtH can bring out the best in whoever wears the shirt. If the psychology of the club, from top to bottom, on and off the field, does not change, he will not succeed. That's job one. We must start from an acceptance that we are now a mid-table club. We are no longer the biggest or most valuable. We are not the most highly regarded. It's wait and see time. Just relax.

02 Jun 2022 12:26:28
Of course top class players are going to need convincing.

Why would they willingly leave on of the biggest clubs in the world, with a manager who is proving himself very capable, who trusts the player and sees him as a key part of his plans, a club playing UCL football next season and will be in the mix for the league title.

Why walk away from that. He isn't stuck on the bench with a manager who doesn't fancy him. He isn't struggling to adapt and settle in the city/ country.

To join a club that hasn't won the league in 10 years, isn't in the UCL and has failed to qualify for in in 5 of the past 10 years.

If he didn't need convincing then he'd need his head testing.

Of course top class players will need convincing.

What we have to trust is that the manager knows the player well enough that he thinks that the player will give 100% if he joins, even if he needs convincing.

Also his comments weren't unprovoked, he was asked in an interview. If we are fair he had little choice but to say what he did, if he said anything else he'd had created a media storm.

While I agree with many fans reservations over signing players who aren't falling over themselves to sign for our club. My bigger concern is if our new manager has to consistently take his 3rd, 4th or 5th choice signing.

If EtH wants De Jong to build his team around, then they club should do whatever they can to bring him in.

02 Jun 2022 12:28:30
Ken, so which is it? Are players happy to sign for United or will they need convincing?

You seem to be flip-flopping all over the place.

Yesterday you said players will want to sign for United, today the wind changes direction and you agree they will need convincing to get them to join.

02 Jun 2022 12:32:39
I am with Shaw in that I don't actually care on who we bring in only in how they do when here.

Like many people on here I have my opinions on who I would like, for me it's Rice and Bellingham over next two Windows who i would want over anyone else but that's my unprofessional opinion as someone who watches football.

Whilst I think these two are the best 2, if they signed two geezers I never heard of From Gosport Borough and Stalybridge Celtic and they became the perfect Midfield duo I would be just as happy.

I am just hoping this summer we get some good players in and start the process of building a team to challenge.

02 Jun 2022 13:09:22
Frankly it’s more a case of where would you rather live too. Manchester, or Barcelona……. I know where I’d go for. Give you a clue, it has some sunshine on occasion.

02 Jun 2022 13:50:15
Shappy how desperate are you to deflect from your latest bout of contradiction.
All players that have multiple offers or indeed if we are their only option need convincing that it's the right move or move they should make. So much to consider because it's the real world not just you behind your keyboard. Everybody needs convincing. Eth needed it. Bruno needed it. Keane needed it to sign a new contract so stop being a numpty I'm not flip flopping at all.
Stop digging. Stupid deflection.
You have made yourself clear. You wouldn't sign for united if they offered you a contract you think any other player that has according to you better options would be mad to sign for united.
You are a flake. You just look over the fence everywhere else with envy. You don't believe in the club you don't think top players should sign for united.
If that's what you believe then fine so stop with all the nonsense of suggesting transfers.
I'll ask again.
Was vvd mad to join Liverpool. What would you the genius have advised him back then?
Mane? Henderson? Allison? All had more successful clubs chasing them.
You are a fair weather supporter.
I would make you very akin to some of the flakes in the squad. Just not up to the challenge of playing or supporting for united.
Completely defeatist attitude but maybe you will get back on the bus when things are looking up and we are playing better again.

{Ed077's Note - I will just say this:
I think we should look elsewhere than FDJ because he has repeatedly come out and said that he is very happy at Barca and doesn't want to move, anywhere. After Pogba and Di Maria, I don't want anyone who wants to be somewhere and is here only because his current club want/need the money and no one else is willing to meet our bid.

And you really go very hard at Shappy. I know he can take it but still...
No need to question anyone's fandom.
There's nothing bad in being a fair weather supporter either. Football isn't everything for everyone, for some its just a mode of entertainment.

02 Jun 2022 15:28:09
Ken, That seems like I hit a nerve. I'm not trying to deflect, i just wanted clarification.

On one day you disagreed with me when I said players with better options would be mad to choose United. Surely not a controversial thing to say, but you took offense.

I mean surely it is a little mad to pick the worst of three options?

If you want to argue that Manchester United is a better option for a young player to move to over Real Madrid and Liverpool currently then I'm all ears.

I said if I was a young player now I'd have reservations over signing for United given our performances over the past 10 years. And if i had better offers I'd take them.

Both in terms of success on the pitch and track record in developing and improving players.

Again, if you want to argue that United have been successful over the past 10 years in terms of trophies won and the development of players, then I am all ears.

Tells us why a young player would want to sign for United based on the evidence of the past 10 years.

There have been many occasions over the years where a professional footballer chooses a different club to his boyhood club, even turning down his boyhood club.

Aaron Ramsey was a boyhood United fan, but chose Arsenal over United.

Jordan Henderson was a boyhood Manchester United fan and chose Liverpool over United.

If you think I'm a flake and a fair weather supporter because I am of the opinion that United aren't in the best and strongest position right now, and will need to convince players to join and will likely lose out if the player has better options then that's down to you.

Personally I think that's just common sense, Living in the land of reality and not some fairy kingdom.

If you're of the opinion that United can go 10 years without a league title or even a real title challenge. Not win any major trophies in 5 years, only qualify for the UCL in 5 of the past 10 season, be on their 5th manager in 10 years (as well as 2 temporary managers), and have a track record of improving ZERO players in that time.

Yet still be a top draw attraction for the world's best players and that they would happily choose United over other more successful teams then I'd like to try whatever medication you're on.

My view of a flake or a fair weather fan is someone who stops watching games because they don't like the manager, someone who hopes for things to get worse so the manager gets sacked, someone who would happily bring turmoil on the club because they have a dislike for the manager.

That's the great thing about opinions though, they often fall in that grey area between reality and fantasy, true only in the mind of the person who holds them. They only have as much power as you let them.

02 Jun 2022 16:08:09
Henderson chose the club that made a bid for him over the club that didn’t.

Ramsey chose Arsenal over United because he felt the club wanted him more. This example in itself goes against your whole argument of why would a player choose United over a current more successful club.

02 Jun 2022 14:54:54
I would be a fan of fdj Ed but I agree that he needs to want to choose united if he has to move.
If he does choose to move from Barcelona if they make it clear he is not part of their plans I hope he chooses us.
Maybe you think he would be better off like bale just sitting tight and taking in the sun while his carreer ebbs away.
If they don't want him he has a choice to make.
I don't believe I'm being hard on him do you not read his paragraphs of lectures and opinions on who and what the club should be doing yet he thinks than any player that has options of cl clubs would be mad to sign for united. That's possibly the most non supportive statement I've ever heard come from a united supporter.
Shappy has actually morphed into his idol ole.

{Ed077's Note - ideally Barcelona want to keep FDJ but their financial plight means him being one of the more sellable assets means they are open to listening to any big offers for him. If you look at the Barcelona squad they have only a handful of players that can bring them big money.

And I'm not trying to have a go at you, or saying you're saying anything too bad. Just saying you're very harsh on Shappy. I know(think) Shappy can take it and you guys are friends (can I call you guys that) away from the site. Just saying others might misconstrue by only reading them without all the info.

02 Jun 2022 16:30:42
I think there is a romance too for Dutch players, especially Ajax graduates.

Your following the footsteps of Michels and Cryuff to one of the very biggest clubs in the game, whose philosophy echoes that, or rather has grown from that of the club where ypu learned the game.

I don't imagine it's easy to walk away from especially as for many it will have been a dream since you were a kid.

02 Jun 2022 18:17:57
Why can you not answer a straight question shappy.
Was vvd mad to sign for Liverpool
Was your example Henderson

Allison mane Robertson? What had they won before they signed where were they in the league for previous 10 years.

Your being a clown.

If those players listened to someone like you and took the cowardly or easy option they may not be as happy as they are now and will not have all achieved what they have.

Your mentality has been laid bare.

02 Jun 2022 18:33:39
Shappy maybe I'm drinking what vvd Robertson or mane were.
Or lampard when he went to a winless Chelsea or duff or robben.

02 Jun 2022 16:30:42
I think there is a romance too for Dutch players, especially Ajax graduates.

Your following the footsteps of Michels and Cryuff to one of the very biggest clubs in the game, whose philosophy echoes that, or rather has grown from that of the club where ypu learned the game.

I don't imagine it's easy to walk away from especially as for many it will have been a dream since you were a kid.

02 Jun 2022 20:55:30
Ken, if you want me to hold your hand and guide you through why those transfer were different then very well.

Henderson chose Liverpool for the reason Ports suggests above. It was move to Liverpool or stay and a sinking Sunderland. He took the best option available to him.

Robertson was at a relegated Hull, so a move to a Liverpool side in the UCL was an obvious upgrade. I can't recall Real Madrid or City being after him at the time.

VvD was at Southampton and there was no other clubs prepared to pay what Liverpool were. His choice was Liverpool or stay at Southampton.

Alisson probably a similar situation.

The difference between joining Liverpool 2-3 years after Klopp took over and joining United now is that you could see the Liverpool project taking shape. There are no guarantees that EtH will be a success, the club's track record and recent history has to raise questions.

The Chelsea lads went to the best offer they had on the table.

There is a clear and obvious recurring theme, players take the best option available to them.

This summer if we are the best offer a player has then they will likely join. If they have better offers then they will go elsewhere.

02 Jun 2022 22:19:03
Shappy, your own argument has now gone full circle and you state the blindingly obvious with your last comment. The problem is, you are stating what the best offer players get and stating this as fact. You gave 2 reasons for a young player to move, 1) To improve and develop -fair point 2) to win trophies - fair point. But you don’t mention 3) game time they’ll get 4) the vision/ project sold to them 5) THEIR role and importance in the team.

You just have to look at what ETH has done at Ajax as a coach and the players he has worked with and that would fill players with confidence. Manchester United are still a big draw currently from a global and commercial aspect so a player wanting to play on the stage United are still on, unbelievably by the way is not that ridiculous to understand.

Opinions are what this page is about but you state your opinions as fact but you need to stop contradicting yourself if you truly believe your points.

02 Jun 2022 22:19:28
given everything is PR these days, what if Frenkie has privately told ETH and United he wants to join so United PR team want to milk it and make out ETH and the project have the pulling power and suddenly after an abysmal season there is "positivity" at the club. He will have loyalty bonuses and would not want to jeopardise this. United are the best at spinning stories. they even hired someone from one of the papers as a PR advisor few years ago so I would not put this past them.

03 Jun 2022 05:04:34
Ken, is Nunez likely to get more game time behind CR7 than if he went to Liverpool to replace Mane?

Shappy may have overstated it slightly initially, but come on, this is ridiculous. Suggesting that a player with a choice of Utd or Real Madrid/ Liverpool is going to need serious persuading to choose us, should not be a controversial statement. It’s common sense, and iirc you’ve said it yourself in the not-to-distant past.

03 Jun 2022 07:16:33
Forget football for one moment.

If I lived in sunny Barcelona and was settled into a dream job and new home, I would really take some convincing to move to anywhere in UK.
BUT.
If my employer suddenly tells that they are going to dispense with my services because they can't afford to pay me it would focus the mind.
There is no similar company in Barcelona and some one in Manchester offers a job then somewhat reluctantly I will listen even if the only sunshine comes from people's backsides and the only tan I will get is from standing out in the rain and going rusty.
If I find the new boss really values me and the firm has real prospects I will soon feel more than gratitude.
However, I would initially I feel miffed and backed into a corner and yes, like FdJ I would need quite a bit of convincing.

03 Jun 2022 07:29:56
Thanks for your input Thorne.
I never said a player won't need convincing all players need convincing eth needed convincing.
Shappy said he would not sign for united he said he would advise players not to sign. He said any player with another offer would be mad and crazy to sign for united. That's nonsense to me.

03 Jun 2022 07:30:50
Thorne that would be up to the manager.

03 Jun 2022 09:19:39
This was my original post the irked Ken so much:

"Also other teams are supposedly keen on him. Liverpool are one club, while Real Madrid have been touted as another who might turn to him as they were unable to convince Mbappe. While Chelsea's new owners will want to stamp their own mark on the club and possibly have a statement summer. With Lukaku not looking sharp they have need for a star striker.

To be honest if any of those clubs come calling for him then he'd be mad not to move to one of them over us. "

All three teams I mentioned are in the UCL, all three teams have a manager who has won the UCL with their current team in the last 3 years. All three teams have a much better chance of winning their domestic league next season. All three clubs can point to numerous players they have helped develop and improve over the past 5 years.

In pretty much every measurable sporting facet that judge success they have more successful than us over the past 5 years or more.

If the aim of a footballer is to be successful, to be the best they can and to win as much as possible then based on recent history you'd be mad to choose the least successful of the options available to you.

Again that isn't controversial, it's just common sense with the rose tinted glasses taken off.

As for me saying I wouldn't sign for the club, this is what I said:

"So yeah, if I was a young footballer and Manchester United came calling for me this summer, I'd want to maybe give it a year and see whether anything has truly changed this time or whether this is another false dawn and I'd be tied to a club that refuses to sell players for the next 5-6 years of my short career. "

So clear hyperbole from Ken again. I never said I wouldn't sign for the club at all, just that I'd wait a year to see if EtH and this new beginning is actually a new dawn or another false one.

Prudent don't you think after the new dawn of Moyes, and the new dawn of LvG, and the new dawn of Jose, and the new dawn of Ole.

How many times have the club been about to have a new dawn and get back to the very top?

This is our 5th attempt in 10 years. Why believe this one is any different to the last 4?

That's why I said give it a year. Wait to see whether things have really changed for the better before tying yourself down to a club for potentially the next 5-6 years.

That's the advice I'd follow and it's the advice I'd give someone else if they asked me.

But then I'm an honest person and say things as I see them. I wouldn't lie or mislead someone to do something because it was to my advantage and not theirs.

03 Jun 2022 10:13:57
It didn't irk me it exposed you for the type of person you are.
Run with the hares chase with the hounds.
Don't accept a challenge and take the easy option.
Vvd mane Henderson Robertson all signed for Liverpool and they hadn't won a title for 25 years. But they accepted the challenge believed they could do it and went on and did it all.
Players and people with real character. Had the Courage of their convictions.
Keep looking over the fence shappy and admire the cows in the other field. Let the real men play for united.
You have made yourself crystal clear.
Imo in life or in your career you have to accept the greatest challenges imo not just follow the glory.
You build and bring others with you you don't jump ship.
You think players would be mad or crazy to join united. I don't.
I hope we get good players and I hope eth improves existing ones and if he fails we go again we don't cry and stop trying to attract the best.

03 Jun 2022 10:22:57
From your post earlier in the thread.
'I said if I was a young player now I'd have reservations over signing for United given our performances over the past 10 years. And if i had better offers I'd take them.
So you said you wouldn't sign for united you would take other offers.
From now on you shall only be referred to as Amber or AH.

03 Jun 2022 11:10:13
Geez I hope something concrete happens in the next few days so we have something to actually talk about. Idle hands etc. :p

I don't know the answer to this specific debate but I hope we are still considered enough of an attraction to lure players maybe not in the top tier but one or two rungs down. Teams of that ilk with good management and a structure can give the top teams a run for their money and even surpass them.

Top four, a serious cup (any) challenge and an improvement on the pitch will make it the most enjoyable season we've had since Fergie went. I'd prefer us to be targeting 'lesser' players who put their heart and soul into it rather than the ones who fancy a bumper signing on fee but lose heart when they see all their mates lifting the CL that season.

03 Jun 2022 10:18:33
Ed077, my point exactly, stay away from players like that.

03 Jun 2022 11:48:08
Spenno I don't care if we sign nobody if that's what the manager wants.
Angel I'm assuming you want the manager backed. You've criticised the club as has everyone on here for not backing managers and for managers to have to settle for 3rd and 4th choices.
I have no idea no more than anybody else but if ETH says fdj is povitol and his 1st choice. If the stars align and they need to sell and we want to buy and fdj has to accept he has to move then do you want the manager backed?
Of course fdj could do a bale and refuse to move and sit tight but I'd imagine his working environment would be a little hostile.
I can't think of any reason why a player would not want to sign for united right now.
But it depends on your character and your point of view.
Some will chase the glory and want to go to the current top team some will embrace the challenge that united have trying to climb back up.
The opportunity at united is huge.
I'm OK with needing to convince players of that.

03 Jun 2022 12:24:21
Ken, if I've only ever taken the easy options in life then I'd love to know what the hard ones are?

As I've said time and again the players who joined Liverpool at the time they joined Liverpool were not considered the best in the world in their positions.

They all got plenty of criticism by fans of opposition clubs when they moved to Liverpool.

Mane was good but lacked top class quality according to many. A lot of United fans turned their noses up at him when we were linked with him while LvG was here.

Robertson had been relegated with Hull.

Henderson was considered average at Sunderland my United fans.

VvD had poor positioning and only his pace saved him apparently.

Salah was an EPL flop at Chelsea.

These were all views shared by many United fans and football fans alike around the time they signed for Liverpool.

Did they have the option to join City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea or Bayern Munich?

No they didn't. The best offer on the table when they signed for Liverpool was the one from Liverpool. Liverpool while not having won anything of note in many years were a step up from the club's they were at (Southampton, Sunderland, a relegated Hull and Roma) .

You talk about taking up a challenge, then why don't you see top players join clubs that regularly finish in the bottom half of the league.

Surely the greatest challenge is winning the EPL with Brentford, Palace or Brighton.

Why don't we see players like Messi, Ronaldo and co looking for the greatest challenge of winning with unfancied teams. Or do they lack character to only sign for what is considered a top team.

03 Jun 2022 12:48:51
Psg and united is where Messi and ronaldo play.
How many cl titles in last 10 years?
United bid for vvd and mane. Mane was invited to united but chose Liverpool.
You are an Amber.
The challenge needs to by matched with remuneration ambition and proven capability. Your just being a silly Billy.

03 Jun 2022 13:28:24
Ken, I'd imagine that at this stage in their careers both Messi and Ronaldo have won everything and are the two best players of their generation if not ever.

Are they still as ambitious?

I suspect Ronaldo's move to United was a mix of nostalgia and the biggest paycheck he could get rather than with any real expectation to win the EPL and UCL last season.

Messi went to the club that would pay him the most money.

It depends do you want mercenaries who are past their best?

We can definitely get those sort of signings.

But I thought the aim was to move away from signing players who's best days are behind them.

Fans say they want young exciting players who'll become the best in the world once here.

Those players might be a little harder to convince that United is the place to match their ambitions and help improve them as players. l, given our track record over the past 10 years.

03 Jun 2022 13:32:53
Who was considered better than Allison he was largely coveted and went for a World record fee so did vvd at the time. Fabhino highly coveted, big fees. They had plenty of options they were klopps choice his intuition his belief.
They believed in klopp and his ambitions for Liverpool.
You don't believe in eth or the club you want more evidence, you think a top player that does belive in that is mad or bat crazy. That's fine you are welcome to that opinion.
I think we will attract the right players I think eth will make improvements quickly I can't see any reason why not, afterall this is Manchester United.
Clear out is taking shape playing staff coaching staff and upstairs.
Hopefully we can get 2 or 3 1st choices in for eth despite your concern for their mental well being.

03 Jun 2022 13:54:11
They ronaldo and Messi were your examples. ???.

03 Jun 2022 14:09:25
Ken Maguire went for a bit fee, highest fee ever paid or a defender.

Does that mean he was highly coveted?

Did Harry turn down Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, City etc to sign for United?

Fabinho was rated by many, but no other sides declared an interest when Liverpool went for him.

Alisson had a long contract when he signed for Liverpool and Roma didn't want to sell. So they had to pay a huge fee.

VvD was an interesting case, it's believed Liverpool paid a higher price due to them tapping him up the previous window. So Liverpool paid a premium to avoid Southampton reporting them to the FA for an illegal approach.

03 Jun 2022 16:15:15
Wow nothing has changed on here, very good player fdl by the way.





 

 

 
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