30 May 2022 11:35:32
I'm not sure a lot of supporters really understand the ramifications of the RR situation.
It's yet more evidence of incompetence and poor decision making from the Club. RR's expertise wasn't in coaching, certainly not at this stage of his career anyway. His appointment was championed as a sign that the Club were finally prepared to listen and take advice from a proven football operator and recruitment expert with fantastic contacts throughout Europe. Most fans weren't excited about the prospect of RR interim manager but RR football consultant, it's the only thing that made his appointment palatable.
Unfortunately yet rather predictably RR has been made the scapegoat of a disastrous season. Forget the humblings against Liverpool and City, the defeats to Villa and Leicester, the thrashing by Watford that eventually saw Ole sacked. Forget the inertia and indecision that followed. Forget the Club sent all the players on holiday including the manager on a weeks sabbatical so everyone could hide from the media, bury their heads in the sand and hope everything would be ok. These are the people charged with running our beloved Club.
RR inherited a toxic, egotistical, mutinous, underperforming squad that decided they no longer liked the old manager, a Club legend and didn't want to play for him. They then decided they didn't want to play for the new manager. They refused to press, run or work hard. They rejected his tactics, mocked his coaches, leaked to the press and argued amongst themselves. The decision makers then refused to back him in January and forced him to keep Lingard when RR told the player he could leave. Someone at the Club thought it better to undermine RR, refuse a modest transfer fee, retain a toxic, disinterested player and pay him in excess of £100k per week, to sit on the bench, fake injury, pose in a West Ham shirt and bemoan the lack of a farewell party. The rest is history.
It's not lost on me that the first person out the door is RR. The incompetent decision makers and all the mutinous, toxic players remain. We should never forget this season, from the incompetence in the board room to the toxic players and their despicable attitude.
Some want you to believe that RR's reputation was over hyped. His coaching credentials hardly worthy of a top Club and his role as an administrator only proven with provincial German outfits. Personally I'd take RR over Murtough, Fletcher, Arnold and that rabble we call a playing squad any day of the week.
30 May 2022 12:39:41
It’s not lost at all .
We have a new manager who admitted he would not commit to us if the set up he wanted was not in place . He asked questions, made demands I’d suspect and once the deal was agreed openly said he was happy with what had been said and was impressed with the dealings he’d had with murtough etc!
If that doesn’t give you confidence what will . I’d also imagine RR would of stayed ( in whatever role he was meant to ) if ETH wanted him .
He obviously doesn’t.
30 May 2022 12:51:52
This was your opening line Dlib.
I'm not sure a lot of supporters really understand the ramifications of the RR situation.
I'm not sure that you understand.
What do you know how connected are you with The club and how are you privy to the decision.
Your scaremongering with ideas from your own head. You just make stuff up based on your opinion and assumptions.
You are as bad as shappy. Go get a job for the daily sun or daily sport and stop making stuff up on here that you have no idea what you are talking about. It's all in your own head fella.
You have no say you have no idea what's actually happening or how decisions are made you just base your thought process around your own assumptions.
If you are so clever and know so much about everything how come you are non involved in football.
Just let them get on with it and stop making assumptions when you know little or nothing about it.
30 May 2022 13:16:24
United hired an interim. He didn’t do so well. They get their permanent manager. The interim is gone.
Stop being so dramatic.
30 May 2022 13:20:17
Fully agree DLIB.
These players threw RR under the bus when he demanded they run and work hard (how dare he? )
Ken I can only assume you’re like one of these modern day parents who place blame with the teachers rather than the kids for their poor behaviour?
He was brave and strong enough to call out these embarrassing egotistical idiots.
Thank you, Ralf.
30 May 2022 13:32:29
Chris - I presume you mean just like RR insisted on a consultancy role before he accepted the interim coaches job. Look how that worked out.
If you want to trust the likes of Arnold, Murtough, Fletcher and the Glazers then of course that’s you’re prerogative.
I presume RR must have been given some assurances when they persuaded him to take the interim coaching job. In January they refused to buy players and undermined him regarding Lingard. The inactivity in the January transfer window was said to be a reluctance to buy players that the new manager might not want yet this was against the advice of the consultant they employed to help them set a new strategy and recruitment policy that wasn’t necessarily dependent on the manager thus trying to prevent the scenario of different players recruited under different managers creating an unbalanced squad. An underperforming Bruno was then awarded with a lucrative new contract despite not having a new manager in place. The decision making at the Club is appalling and their explanations contradictory.
I don’t trust them, I don’t fall for their spin and unfortunately the evidence strongly suggests they haven’t learnt a thing.
I urge you to read Red Man and Shappys post further down the page. Of course I’m only expressing my opinion but EtH is not god. He will need help if he wants to be successful and the decision makers at the Club are not up to scratch. How long before the players don’t like EtH’s tactics, how long before we hear the Eredivisie is not the Premier League and Ajax isn’t Man Utd?!
This is not change but the same protagonists making the same mistakes. Don’t forget Murtough and Arnold have been at the Club for the past decade. RR offered some hope that ego’s had been set aside, past mistakes acknowledged and a willingness to take advice from a shrewd, well respected and experienced football operator. That facade was destroyed yesterday and we are now back in the hands of people with over a decade of failure and bad decisions under their belt. Can EtH succeed where LVG, Jose and RR failed. I won’t hold my breath.
Ken - We have a decade worth of evidence mate. I’m just expressing my opinion and trying to have a debate and understand what happened to RR and scrutinise the decision making at the Club. If you have an opinion on that I’d be interested to hear it. Maybe I chose the wrong words to start my post but some supporters just want to ignore what’s happened to RR. I just see this as yet more evidence of poor decision making and a reluctance at the Club to accept anything is wrong or take any responsibility.
30 May 2022 13:39:41
Where have I criticised Ralf for calling out the players downsie. I've praised him for that previously as I did Jose.
I'm asking dlib what does he know about why or how RR left the club.
He knows none of the detail of how they all came to the decision. He is just making assumptions on stuff he knows little about.
Downsie53 I apportion blame where its due and when I know as much facts as are required for me to form an opinion if I am to support a teacher / employee / kids etc. Although as with most things there will be a ying for every yang and the truth usually sits somewhere in the middle. Usually no 1 person or group is to blame, respect, tolerance and understanding of both sides in any argument or dispute is required before something can be really understood.
Dlib is entitled to his opinion but its only based on his own understandings and assumptions and is not based on any rounded knowledge of why RR has left.
30 May 2022 13:55:46
Dlib why you prise RR for his directness his calling things as they are, yes?
Why did RR say he is not taking up his consultancy post?
Do you think he has had a personality transplant in the last 48hrs and suddenly stopped being straight?
He said his commitments with the Austrian job means he cannot commit to the consultancy roll.
Perhaps eth and himself had a chat and are not aligned in their thinking and plans so RR decided he would be better off out of it.
Perhaps eth thinks he can do better with player RR wanted out and RR being an advisor against that would have been difficult so he decided he wanted out or eth decided he didn't want him and a lot of bad smells he created lingering around.
My point is there are stiffener decision makers at the club than there where previously there could be a dozen reasons but you only look at things from your perspective which is 100% a negative outlook on the owners and management.
There is a new coaching regime a new ceo a new structure and lots of changes afoot.
Be patient see what happens stop rattling your sabre and wait and see what happens over the next 6 to 12 months.
I'm not saying all is perfect but there is a new coach and that's a good thing imo.
You don't trust them as owners I'm sure they wouldn't trust you as a supporter.
30 May 2022 13:06:46
My take on it is, Ten Hag will have his own ideas and will want to keep certain players. The last few months it has gone to pot, so would the players he may have fallen out with feel comfortable with him in Eth's ear? After all Ten Hag is his own man.
It has gone so badly it does not surprise me he has left. I think he has good credentials and could have been a help to the club, but the way the last 6-8 weeks have gone, it could have done more harm than good.
30 May 2022 14:37:30
Yes caolan that's one way of looking at it.
Dlib has a bias and agenda against the owners and club management which shapes his perspective on this topic.
There are many ways of looking at why or how it happened but you just need to look at it in isolation not with fixed agendas or bias.
There are only 2 ears I've not 100% enjoyed being a club supporter one was the dave sexton era the 2nd was oles era. All the rest I've been happy to take the rough with the smooth.
I'm really looking forward to see how eth gets on.
30 May 2022 15:31:58
Obviously ten Hag has been aware that RR was expected to remain involved and maybe he had no problem with that. But then all of a sudden Ralf is offered an international role and fancies his hand it at - no problem with that - but ten Hag is obviously a bit of a machine. Many have commented on his work rate and dedication once he's on board, and perhaps he didn't fancy someone who was also managing an international team on the side involved. I'm sure it's amicable.
30 May 2022 15:44:35
Could be anything.
ETH and him could've had a call, and realised it wasn't going to work out within the structure that ETH needs in place or its too much to ask with his Austria role (which is fine and a positive IMO)
Or
The club have made the decision which just points to fact that the lunatics are still running the asylum.
30 May 2022 15:49:02
ETH clearly want's full control of the in's and out's. it's as simple as that.
{Ed002's Note - He is in for a huge shock then.}
30 May 2022 17:09:10
It’s true I don’t like the owners or the decision makers at the Club. I think we have enough evidence to suggest those in charge consistently make bad decisions and are rarely held accountable.
We still have the same poor decision makers at the Club that have presided over a decade of failure now promoted into more senior positions and the same underperforming players that have just finished with the lowest points tally in premier league history.
In relation to RR it doesn’t really matter what anyone thinks about him. His record as an interim coach at Utd is poor and we now won’t even get to benefit from his real area of expertise. What ever the reasons for his departure it has ended in failure and this represents yet more evidence of bad decision making on behalf of the Club in my opinion.
reputable journalists suggested RR wanted either Zakaria or Kamara in January. If reports are to be believed he also wanted a forward, he even named checked the likes of Diaz and Kulusevski in a press conference. So as far back as January and even before RR was appointed as Austrian manager the Club were not listening to the consultant they had hired to advise them.
EtH will not have full control of transfers, the guy with a proven track record on recruitment has left leaving Murtough and Arnold in charge. Some might argue they were only peripheral figures and not fully culpable for the mistakes of the last 10 years; that might be the case but where’s the evidence to the contrary.
30 May 2022 17:58:58
Dlib.
1. Where has RR got a great record of recruitment?
2. Has he ever worked for a top club or only a minnow/ underdog
3. What are RR's successes stories?
4. What trophies has he won as a coach and or head of football?
Why are you bemoaning the loss of somebody that's never achieved or won anything of note?
We are entering a new era you might find you enjoy it a little more if you have a positive outlook.
You may well be right perhaps eth is doomed to failure but I'd rather wait for some signs of that on the pitch before I make up my mind.
30 May 2022 18:31:52
100% KEN. Correct……. Ten Haag also might have seen straight through him and said I want him nowhere near me or the club if I take the job, so for me that’s the first great thing that’s happened.
30 May 2022 18:33:02
I have no real issue with RR leaving, he was to be a consultant that is all. Had he been DoF I might have been more concerned.
Of far more interest is Eds little one liner. Who exactly pulls the trigger on transfers here, because its been awful of late and who is going to be making the decision both in and out this summer.
30 May 2022 19:07:33
Ken - You’re not convinced by RR and that’s fine.
I’m worried because I don’t think Murtough and Arnold are up to the job and in my opinion there is a decade worth of evidence to substantiate this. They’ve survived Moyes, LvG, Jose, Ole and now RR. Convince me with decisions they’ve made at the Club that they actually know what there are doing. Murtough et al was responsible for rewarding Ole with a new contract last summer and we all know how you felt about him. He then kept him in post following sobering losses to Liverpool and City. He had no contingency plan then sent everyone on holiday whilst they buried their head in the sand.
Like I said earlier I was encouraged by the fact that it appeared the Club had accepted and taken responsibility for previous mistakes and hired a well respected football operator with a proven track record of building Clubs and recruiting the right players to advise them.
RR is a well respected football director with good contacts throughout Europe and a proven track record of excellent recruitment. During his roles at RB Leipzig and RB Salzburg he recruited the likes of Kimmich, Konate, Upamecano, Keita, Sabitzer, Werner, Mane, even Haaland to name but a few.
If you’re not convinced by RR that’s fine, I’m not convinced by Murtough. Let’s agree to disagree and move on.
He’s gone now so like you said let’s look forward to the EtH era pal.
30 May 2022 19:19:17
You're dead right ken, I'm glad they've gone with proven guys like Murtaugh and Fletcher ?.
30 May 2022 21:03:48
DLIB the lack of leaks regarding transfers in the British media already suggests those two are doing a better job than Woodward. Under Arnold there’s already been changes, for whatever reason change is good. There’s been some investment in the training ground, we look to be moving quicker on transfers. We’ve got a manager on an upward trajectory. He’s already done more than Woodward.
For murtough, it’s time to see what he can do. It’s exciting and they deserve a clean slate to do their jobs.
30 May 2022 21:19:56
In my opinion and it’s only that, not only is it a big opportunity for ETH but also Murtagh, fletcher to some extent but Arnold! Huge chance to put their marker on the playing side of the club . Personally I feel optimistic.
30 May 2022 22:21:57
For the want of repetition Murtough extended Ole’s contract despite not winning a single trophy or implementing a style of play. He was sacked 3 months later, they sent everyone on a weeks sabbatical whilst they buried their head in the sand and hid from the worlds media, paralysed by fear and indecision. It finally took a 4-1 defeat at Watford to jolt them into action despite a run of embarrassing results and inept performances against our biggest rivals. They then appointed RR as interim coach, a man without any relevant coaching experience in nearly 10 years and better known for his administration skills. They refused to sign any players in January against the advice of their coach/ consultant. They kept players against their will and against the advice of their coach/ consultant, losing out on a transfer fee whilst paying obscene wages for a player to sit on the bench and pose in a West Ham shirt. God knows what effect his continued presence had on an already fractured dressing room. We finished 6th with the worst points total in premier league history despite having the highest wage bill in the league. They parted ways with the consultant before they could benefit from his area of expertise. They said they didn’t sign players in January in case the new manager didn’t want them, they then rewarded an underperforming player with a lucrative new contract before a new manager was appointed.
In my opinion they have already demonstrated a staggering level of incompetence in a very short space of time. This is not how a competent Club operates.
This is not a new Utd but the same people that have been at the Club for a long time, now over promoted into positions in which they have no top level experience, track record or expertise.
I fully back EtH and sincerely hope the Club provide him with the platform to succeed. I’ve exhausted this subject let’s see what happens.
31 May 2022 00:17:05
Maybe RR have spoken at length hopefully RR has passed on his own views. Hopefully they will help ETH to decide who needs to go and eho should stay. That aside maybe during their conversation two adults decided it was best for all concerned that RR left. No dramatics, no pouting, no recriminations. Just a simple statement saying he was leaving.
31 May 2022 01:03:04
I was one of the ones who wanted Rangnick in as advisor. His jobs at his previous clubs looking after structure have been excellent. However, he took on a full time job looking after the Austrian national team. There is no way he can do that and do a consultancy job at United 2 days a month. The mere thought of it is bonkers.
ETH is a very intelligent man, he's a deep thinker and wants things run his way. I know a few Dutch ex players over here and they all praise his diligence and attention to detail. So, working with a part time consultant would not fit within his philosophy.
But as Ed002 says, whether this brilliantly run club of ours will allow ETH to have complete control over the footballing side of the club, is a totally different matter. Only time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath.
31 May 2022 08:07:41
Well good luck to the Austrian national team then, if RR's skills only extend to the vision and building of clubs rather than the tactical and playing side of things they're in for rough times.
31 May 2022 10:13:08
I think the numerous reports in the press of the exec/ management team not liking his direct assessment of the issues tells you everything you need to know about the problems at the club. The first thing you need to do when you have a problem is admit you have a problem, without taking that first step you will just go around in perpetual circles.
When the decision makers are the problem, it’s very very hard to fix. Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.
EtH could be in for a very bumpy ride at the club. He’s essentially an outsider where it appears to be “jobs for the boys”.
The club quite obviously needs a very clear cohesive strategy put in place, encompassing all aspects of the club with a clear vision set out that it’s a football club first and foremost and winning football matches drives commercial opportunity.
I’m not sure that’s what going to happen, I thought it would under RR but probably not.
31 May 2022 11:26:27
DLIB- Woodward was still in charge to around January this year. Everything seemed to go through him.