Manchester United banter 90714

 

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26 May 2022 10:12:51
Us united fans are a strange bunch. lots of praise on Twitter last night for an ex manager who left the club on bad terms, winning a trophy that nobody wants to be in! Makes sense doesn't it. ?.

Agree0 Disagree0

26 May 2022 11:07:09
That man deserves all the plaudits. He may be past his best but still knows how to win. We don't want to be in the Europa League so i think EtH should just not compete and not try to win it? He is yet to lose a European final, 5 i think is the number.

Bad terms were created for him by the a*holes sitting above him. If only they listened to him back then, we wouldn't have been in such mess. He was right all along. All the players he wanted gone are the ones we are crying out to be gone too isn't it? And the players he wanted are winning trophies left right and centre. Remember Perisic, who was supposedly too old?

26 May 2022 11:11:21
Yes Tim. And Mike Smalling was man of the match!

26 May 2022 11:51:16
Yes he was and he played very well, but we did see him struggle many times for us. I just don’t see the point, what’s it achieving. Jose was right on a lot of things, wrong on others. There’s certain people online who will use everything as a stick to beat with. Just look at the response to ETH comments on maguire and the reaction that got. Roma won, well done to them but I don’t see how it’s comparable to us. That’s just me.

26 May 2022 12:26:41
Jose was a poor fit for our club, but you can't deny the guy is a great manager.

Five European titles (2 UCL, 2 Europa/ UEFA cups and now the Europa conference) is a great achievement.

However, when you look at who he won those titles with, other than the Europa cup win with ourselves, the other sides are not considered elite sides. Porto a top side in Portugal, but in truth both Sporting and Benfica are historically bigger clubs. Inter are probably the 3rd biggest side in Italy behind city rivals AC Milan and Juventus and obviously Roma are a step down again.

His style of play suits the underdog sides. He was successful but never embraced by the Madridista's, he was a success at Chelsea when they were striving to be a big club, but once they established themselves he didn't quite fit anymore.

His style of play also suits knockout football more than league football. Where a draw is a good result and not 2 points dropped. I think International football would be good for him when he leaves Roma.

Great manager and his achievements should be celebrated, just a poor choice as a manager for us, especially at the time he took over.

No hard feelings though, I wish him further success.

26 May 2022 13:03:12
Agree with UA and don’t agree with Shappys opening words. I think he was the perfect fit with the wrong structure. Jose gets his feet under the table with winning ugly and when he thinks he can will win both ways. He will dig in against teams like city yet still have a great chance with players which want to work for him. He wasn’t backed and let the players run the asylum hence why this current mess exists. xA
We will never know which players he wanted to buy, but we sure know which he wanted gone, and he is right they have been useless and a let down.
Same story at Spurs.

26 May 2022 13:52:04
Shappy, I think we were the problem in that dynamic.

If we had worked with him more, he would have been ideal.

Man United have been the root of the problem for years.

26 May 2022 14:15:36
Everything Jose said about the club came to fruition. All the players he wanted to sell stayed and have been extremely poor. Players he wanted to sign like Perisic who were lambasted for being too old went on to be integral in league and champions league winning sides.

The club and some fans weren't in the right frame of mind for Jose. Some still romanticized about a manager coming in who spoke of United DNA and the United way, well we got that and it ended up setting the club back a serious way.

I'm unhappy with how this season was tossed in the bin with so much to play for when we could have gotten Conte in. There are some fans who look down on certain managers like Jose, Conte, Simeone which I don't think is right.

But we've taken our medicine and hopefully with Ten Hag it will begin to look brighter.

26 May 2022 15:03:52
JOS WAS CLASS AND STILL IS BUT HE IS GONE NOW AND let's MOVE ON AND BACK TEN HAG.

26 May 2022 15:21:36
Angel, I think the club was almost entirely at fault in the Jose saga.

Everyone knew who and what Jose was before he joined United. Yet the clowns hired a man who would call them out, then looked surprised when it happened.

The club should have never hired him in the first place. He was a poor fit for the structure we had unless massive change was going to happen.

I also think stylistically he was a poor fit. United have never been successful by playing a pragmatic style. The United fans expect a certain style of football.

While trust in youth has been a cornerstone in our success and history since the days of Sir Matt.

Jose prefers older players at their peak and tends to play a pragmatic style of football. In that regards he is almost the antithesis of what the club is, or at least should be.

He's a top manager, but not every top manager is a good fit for every club.

26 May 2022 16:27:53
Again, I think had we given him the tools, and shown the progression that was needed, he would have done even better. He would have been a great fit.

I don't buy into this 'wouldnt have been a good fit'. Just like I don't buy it when they say it about conte or Simeone. Give them the proper tools, they will succeed.

Rail against them, like we did with jose, it won't end well.

The club were the problem, not the manager.

26 May 2022 16:41:02
Jose finished 2nd and wanted to challenge for the title.
The board gave him Fred, Grant and Dalot. An absolute slap in the face.

The amateur's didn't match his ambition.

26 May 2022 17:52:24
TRD,

Dalot was very highly rated, I'm sure Mourinho wanted him at Utd.

26 May 2022 17:52:33
Top manager. He was not allowed to do his job here the way he needed to.
Now after 4 years of nonsense we have fallen lower than a snakes belly and need to clear out the players Jose called out 4 years ago.
I was never a big Jose fan I still am not but the absolute crap spoken about him on these pages was so far from the mark so far from the truth imo it was just daft.
Jose knows what a good pro is. No matter what age they are.
I agree with shappy I think he would be a great manager for England post Southgate.

26 May 2022 18:29:44
Ken, I think graham potter has england manager written all over him and would be a brilliant choice should Southgate step down.

He would do a great job with England and IMO would be able to step into a number of 'big' jobs.

Also, yes, Jose would be a good shout for England.

26 May 2022 18:48:41
Think Mourinho is a busted flush at the top level. Football tactics look to have moved on but you can't argue with the man's record. One which was further enhanced last night. Good luck to him.

Mourinho would've been the logical choice to replace Ferguson. Still astonishing we went for Never won a thing Moyes to replace SAF.

26 May 2022 19:47:12
Angel, I think that depends on what you consider success.

We finished 2nd, but were 19 points behind Man City, that's a huge gap to close. The following season City won the league again with 98 points beating Liverpool by 1 point with them getting 97. Jose wanted Maguire, do you think if we signed Maguire for Jose in the summer before he left we would have gone from 81 points to close to 100?

Personally I think José peaked with us in his second season, and the usual third season José implosion happened. You forget that it wasn't as simple as just buying José a few more players, half the squad was against him.

Time has proven that many of those players probably needed shipping out. In which case if the club backed José and sold those players then they would need to be replaced. For José to have been successful would have taken another 2-3 years to replace those players who aren't good enough. That's assuming that all of Jose's buys would have worked out, as many of his signings didn't work out (Pogba, Bailly, Lindelof, Lukaku, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez etc) .

Would Jose have developed the youth?

Would the fans be happy with his style of play long term?

José is a short term manager, the kind of guy you bring in when you have a successful squad that have gone off the boil. He comes in knocks a few heads, buys a few players at their peaks and gets 100% out of what he has for 2-3 years before it all comes crashing down.

We didn't have a great squad, we needed a manager who could implement a longer term vision, someone who would buy younger players and develop them into top stars while adding a few top players alongside.

José doesn't have the style of play, or inclination to build something that might be successful after him. He just wants to collect medals right now and leave in a few years time.

He was a poor choice given the squad we had, and the job needed at the time. As well as being a poor fit stylistically for the club.

26 May 2022 20:09:53
As an aside, Dalot was very much Mourinho's signing. "Best young player in Europe in his position", if I recall. His words.
Seriously? I'd hate to see the worst. There are better younger players in the Prem alone.

26 May 2022 21:19:59
I wonder how Maquire would have done under Jose, more suited to his style of football I think.

27 May 2022 06:34:49
Mumbles

I agree with you

spenno

Dalot was seen as one of the best young players at the time, but he didn’t get coached properly, we put DNA emotion in charge. I strongly suspect the lack of coaching in three years has affected a few, not just Dalot.

I keep reading Jose, Conte Simeone are a poor fit, yet this comes from the romantacists on here, the Shappys who think we must have a swaggering style. It’s winning that counts, we dithered whilst Spurs got Conte and some said that was good. I still believe we should have got Simeone because it’s where we are. I wanted Klopp after Moyes because it was the right timing. The idealists think all is well, I think ETH has some real problems to solve, I wish him well, but we need to stop living in a fantasy world of wonderful football, winning is what it’s about. Jose, Conte and Simeone are hard tough winners, United has been an emotional wreck.

27 May 2022 09:53:35
Red Man, Conte and Jose are short term managers who get the best out of a squad for 2 season's before imploding in their third year.

Seeing as our squad will need 2-3 years to be capable of challenging for top honours they would both be terrible picks. They would both be gone before they built a squad capable of challenging for titles.

Simeone has shown staying power at Atletico, so would maybe be more likely to be able to stay they course until we had a squad capable of challenging.

However, what you keep forgetting is our fan base. You know the one that flies banners over Old Trafford when they don't like watching boring football. The one that goes bananas on social media every time we draw a game let alone lose.

We are a club that are 2-3 YEARS away from truly challenging for titles. That means the fans need to be behind and support the manager for YEARS before we win anything of note.

Simply they won't do that if they aren't entertained. They won't be happy to sit there and watch boring anti-football for 3 years in the hope that eventually we bore our way to a title.

27 May 2022 17:00:21
Shappy

SAF last years were dull and tough to watch but winning trophies makes all the difference and no one flew banners. Our fan base sat here all emotional over one recent manager playing awful football with odd exceptions and not winning but that was ok wasn’t it. It’s all about winning. Does anyone care the scousers won two cups so far on penalties? No, their name is on the trophies!

27 May 2022 17:36:54
Red Man, I think SAF had plenty of credit in the bank to go a few years at the end of this career not playing great football after over 25 years of top quality service to the club.

No fans were going to fly a banner over Old Trafford asking for Sir Alex to be sacked. That idea is crazy.

No new managers will come in with 25 years of great service to our club and be able to weather the storm playing poor football for 2-3 years before he challenges for titles.

27 May 2022 18:58:58
Shappy

Do you remember SAF first three years?

27 May 2022 21:11:19
I was born around the time Sir Alex was hired, so I don't remember a great deal no.

However, I don't think the two scenarios are comparable.

When SAF took over we hadn't won the league in 25 years. We were a former top club decades ago and a good cup team. The pressure on him and the global scrutiny on him isn't one tenth of what it will be on EtH or any other new manager we hire.

We have a fan base supposedly of 1 billion world wide. Our games are beamed out live to over 50 countries. Most of those fans have only known the club under Sir Alex, they have only known success and cavalier football.

That is what they expect from Manchester United.

I live in Yorkshire, and am almost certainly in the top 1% of fans who live closest to Old Trafford. The vast majority of our fans have huge expectations of the club and don't have the patience to watch poor football for three years in the hope that eventually they will win something of note.

Since SAF retired we have won an FA cup, League cup and Europa League. More than 90% of English clubs in that time. Yet I can't think of a single United fan who is truly happy at winning any of those trophies.

You take them, but what United fans really want, what they expect are league titles and UCL titles.

With this fan base you can't take 3 years playing crap football to rebuild a side. The fans won't allow it.

They turned on Ole who as you repeatedly say was an emotional choice, a man most fans WANTED to succeed. As such they gave him longer than they would give another manager who they have no connection with.

The only way to see a complete squad overhaul that will take years is if the fans are being entertained in that time. Otherwise they will turn on the manager and he'll be sacked.

28 May 2022 07:13:14
Oh my God Shappy give it a rest. Your disrespect of Jose is ridiculous. The club let him down. His football at Chelsea at times was as good as anything I saw at United, and I am old enough to remember the Sexton years yet alone Fergie’s. Equally to suggest that Fergie wasn’t a pragmatist in many games is ludicrous. Equally he wasn’t as pragmatic in some matches as he should have been. But this isn’t meant to be an anti-Fergie post, it’s just highlighting that even the best don’t get it right all the time, however some don’t get the necessary faith put in them like Fergie did… and Jose is very much one manager who lasted far longer than the support he was given by United’s execs.

28 May 2022 11:20:13
BadRedDevil, Which bit was disrespectful?

"Jose was a poor fit for our club, but you can't deny the guy is a great manager. " This bit where I call him a great manager?

This bit: "Five European titles (2 UCL, 2 Europa/ UEFA cups and now the Europa conference) is a great achievement. " where I say what a great achievement his five European titles are?


This bit: "Great manager and his achievements should be celebrated" where I say he is a great manager and honour his achievements?

Or the bit where I wish him further success?

I've said it before many posters read what they want/ expect to read and not what is written down.

I'd love for you to pick our where in this thread I've been disrespectful to Jose?

I mean is it disrespectful to say Jose plays a pragmatic style? Or is that just honesty? He does play a pragmatic style.

Is it disrespectful to say that in my opinion he was a poor fit for the club? No, firstly its an opinion. Secondly, he fell out with most people at the club and the majority of the fan base had turned on him by the end. That doesn't scream great fit for the club.

Was it me saying Jose is a shot term manager? Well he's on his tenth job in management and has only completed three consecutive seasons once in his career in his first stint at Chelsea. He left Chelsea in the September of his fourth season a the club, less than 6 weeks into the new season. Again when the evidence is so substantial I don't think its disrespectful to say it as it is.

So exactly where have I been disrespectful?





 

 

 
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