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03 Feb 2020 13:53:35
It's clear to see martial is not up to being our first choice number 9.

Out of curiosity, who would people realistically go for if we were to sell him in the summer?

The issue would be finding someone who will not stall greenwood's progress but also somebody who can effectively lead the line.

Agree0 Disagree0

03 Feb 2020 14:16:07
There’s a lad for inter who’s already hit 16 in the league, and looks like he can lead a line.

03 Feb 2020 14:54:48
Just my thoughts but you're way to far ahead of yourself red whiskey

Right wing is a must another dm so bruno doesn't have to drop back again and another b2b midfielder for when pogba goes.

Then a centre forward who offers a plan b and a pacey centre back

And after all that aslong William's has developed as we hope then think about selling martial if you wish and replace him

We can't have another lukaku situation where we get rid before we have adequate cover.

03 Feb 2020 15:38:53
Stall Greenwoods progress? geez this is really how far we fallen we are wanting to give players a free ride.

03 Feb 2020 15:57:15
How is it giving anyone a free ride, laughable comment.

03 Feb 2020 16:50:44
Yeah god forbid we actually look to create a pathway and have a plan for a promising young academy player to progress.

We are actually lucky alexis sanchez was such an unmitigated disaster at the club which meant rashford could come through and play so well at left wing this season before his injury.

03 Feb 2020 16:55:41
If Martial is staying, which he almost certainly is given the fee we would demand and the wages he is on. Then I would go for Raul Jimenez as he offers us work rate and is an excellent back to goal striker who could provide plenty of chances for Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno.

If Martial was to leave then my dream target would be Lautaro Martinez. I think he is going to be top class. Works hard, makes intelligent runs, clinical, low centre of gravity makes him hard to knock off the ball and makes space and chances for his team mates. However, there is next to no chance that would happen.

I think Martial will be here for at least another few years, let's hope he can develop the weaker areas of his game as he does have some great attributes. Fast, clinical, quick feet, great link up play.

I think both Martial and Rashford struggle with the same issue, both very good players, but they struggle to do it on their own. When Martial was out injured Rashford was thrust upfront on his own, he isn't at his best when playing centrally and he became isolated.

When Martial came back, Rashford moved back out to the left and scored 14 goals in 15 games. Yet it wasn't just the positional switch, but the fact that teams had two players to worry about.
Martial also looked very good and scored a few goals before Rashford's injury.

Once Rashford became injured Martial has often been isolated and the only focal point of our attacks. As such space is harder to come by and he is often doubled up on, and less effective.

They both play best when they are BOTH on the pitch together. Neither can carry the attack on their own and become deadly the moment there is more space created because of the presence of the other.

My real concern with Martial is will he be able to stay fit long enough to make a telling impact.

03 Feb 2020 17:19:47
Why do you keep saying that Martial has great linkup play?

He is consistently muscled off the ball when he gets it with his back to goal, and misplaces every second pass he tries on the edge of the box.

Who is he linking with?

Since you love stats, he has created 3 big chances this season. Hardly impressive.

03 Feb 2020 17:55:51
Danny, he doesn't link up like an old school centre forward. Who'd just back in to the centre back, hold them off and lay the ball off to a runner.

Martial links up through give and goes, moving the ball quickly. A flick, or a quick one two. But to do so he needs players close to him as he doesn't have the strength to hold players off for 10 seconds while the midfield or wide players make their way to him. That's why he works better when Rashford is playing on the left looking to cut in and playing closer to goal.

Unfortunately we don't play a high enough line or press in numbers, or attack with several runners. So Martial doesn't get to show off his clever flicks and link up play as often as he could.

03 Feb 2020 18:08:23
I’m saying that when he tries to move the ball quickly, he misplaces it half the time. And if he doesn’t want to play like an old school striker, why does he keep coming short looking for the ball to feet with his back to goal? Why isn’t he running the lines, or stretching the defence to open up space for others?

03 Feb 2020 18:23:18
My main issue with martial is his application. He is not capable of fixing his issues because he is too lazy.

03 Feb 2020 18:26:18
In my opinion martial's link up play is decent it certainly isn't bad, it is better than rashfords link up play and certainly better than lukakus.

Martials job as the link man is to be the forward base of the attack, I hate keep using liverpool and firminio but its the best fit. Firmino drops deep regularly it pulls the centre back out of position and leaves space for mane and Salah to run into and get goals. Firminio may never touch the ball in the move so doesn't notch one of the golden chance created stats but was important in it.

When rashford and greenwood play they do the mane and salah job well not as well but still well, hence why until certainly recently rashford, martial and greenwood had scored the same as salah, mane and firminio

James, perriera, mata lingard don't make that run when martial drops deep and are either not yet, never will be, no longer are or never have been good enough.

when everyone's fit I still don't like 4-2-3-1 with our current players, with the injuries we have that formation should be in the bin it does not get the best out of what we have left at all.

If we only have 1 available dm play 433 or 4141. Before we got bruno we didn't have a good enough 10. solution don't play a formation with one then, again do 433, 352 there's lots of options.

03 Feb 2020 18:26:33
He comes short for the give and goes, if he ran the lines then with the gap between our midfield and our forward line would be titanic. Hopefully with Bruno now in that won't be the case anymore.

The idea is supposed to be slightly similar to what Liverpool do with Firmino. Where he drops almost like a false 9 to collect the ball, in doing so he drags out a centre back, he then plays in one of Salah or Mane who make diagonal runs into the space he has created.

It works better when Rashford plays, but we don't have the quality or two threats from out wide the way Liverpool do. We also don't move the ball quick enough.

03 Feb 2020 18:33:57
I will be perfectly honest but I don't see Greenwood as a number 9 anyway he seems more of a wide player or an attacking midfielder to me than a striker. We shouldn't be thinking of not getting a striker in to effect Greenwood. It's a squad game and we simply don't have a good enough one.

Mad to think by the time we play our next game away to Chelsea we could be as low as 9th in the table. Yes NINTH in February how depressing is that! I think the board will panic if the slide continues after the break. I will be stunned if we are below mid table and there is no job losses in the club.

03 Feb 2020 18:37:44
When Martial first came the expectations for him were high, I thought he was going to be a Man Utd legend.
Unfortunately:
He seems to be operating in stand mode most of the time. He's parked his head and forgot where he left it.
He's like a man on a mission but can't find the instructions.
His mind wanders and doesn't come back.
His reaction time (at times) is longer than his attention span.
he looks lazy, uninterested and uninspiring, says a lot to me.

03 Feb 2020 18:40:12
Personally I'd get a deal done for Werner asap before the window opens if possible.

As for greenwood he shouldn't be heavily relied upon yet he's just turned 18 he needs to be eased in.

03 Feb 2020 18:59:32
Dbrooks agree on werner however I feel he'll most likely end up at bayern or liverpool.

I like the look of martinez but again I reckon he'll be Barcelona or Madrid bound. Maybe even city to replace aguero as he strikes me as very similar to kun.

03 Feb 2020 19:37:19
here are some stats; in the last five seasons Martial has scored 11 4 9 10 8.

I don't care how you dress it up but for a forward player that is ineffective rubbish.

Ergo, Martial is crap. End of.

03 Feb 2020 19:51:35
One name I don't think I have seen mentioned on here is Ciro Immobile. Scoring for fun.

{Ed025's Note - most of united,s team are immobile RW.. :)

03 Feb 2020 20:02:15
RW why would we not go and buy the best we can for the best we can afford just because of this academy star? We need someone now that is going to win games, win titles, not some half arsed Martial whos a stop gap whilst Greenwood gets older and gains experience.
Greenwood should be playing in a side where its dominating games and winning things that's where you will get the best out of him, he will get better that way, and you won't get that without a top top striker scoring goals for fun, that's where Greenwood will learn from others experience that can do it.

03 Feb 2020 20:02:42
Martial is a complete waste of space money and wages. Awful player. Awful to watch i'd say awful to play with.

{Ed047's Note - I cant believe this whole thread is about that bone idle can’t be arsed waste of space.

There is way to much defending of bang average players on here that shouldn’t even be in your squad let alone anywhere near the first team.

03 Feb 2020 21:31:23
Bang on ed047. And don't mention the manager😂😂😂.

{Ed047's Note - I daren't Ken! 😱🤣

03 Feb 2020 22:14:44
Including Lukaku. Italian league is total pants.

04 Feb 2020 04:37:09
If the club has ambition, they should go all out for either Lautaro Martinez, Raul Jiminez or Timo Werner.

04 Feb 2020 06:57:35
Ambition? No

The club has a useless manager in place, sells its goal scoring centre forward without replacing him, then goes searching or scrambling for a loan signing at the end of January. This whole strand shows we have accepted mediocrity, mediocrity in manager and in players. Martial is a nice to have sub who can run at tired defenders as long as he has the ball at his feet facing goal. Beyond that he isn’t a centre forward. Everton have more ambition than United, at least they have appointed a manager who knows what he is doing.
As we sit tucked in midtable just behind the mighty Sheffield United, with a win rate this season of 36%, with a manager who has won less than a third of games when permanent, whose major attribute was a relegation, why does anyone think we are anything other than mediocre?

It’s no good putting fancy top level players names as ones to sign. They won’t want to play for a club with such little idea how to get success, or play for a manager of this calibre. When Liverpool looks to buy the top level in summer have a weep over your beer as we herald a new era in mid table obscurity. Martial fits in just fine to that.

04 Feb 2020 08:15:16
Think we're missing the point here. Martial clearly has talent, just doesn't seem to have the application.

He is hands down the best finisher at the club and is being told to drop deep and attempt link up play, which he can't do because he spends 90% of the time rolling on the floor.

Why he isn't being told to stay in the box, something we were desperate for against wolves, god only knows.

It's purely down to poor coaching, failing to realise the strengths of each player and force them into playing a tepid brand of counter attacking football that's devoid of any ideas or creativity.

04 Feb 2020 08:40:25
lukaku and martial are both pants.

martial just strolls through games, now and again will have a decent game.

04 Feb 2020 08:52:23
Sepp, how many managers has he had now and his problems still remain. Not down to poor coaching at all.

04 Feb 2020 10:01:16
Ciro Immobile has struggled in every league he has played in bar Serie A. So although he is in great form I would give him a wide berth, as he has struggled in both the Bundesliga and la Liga with Dortmund and Sevilla. I can't see him doing well in the rough and tumble of the EPL.

For me I struggle to look much beyond Raul Jimenez. He is EPL proven, he is a very different type of striker to what we have so would give us a different option.

04 Feb 2020 10:19:14
Jimenez would be my first choice.

04 Feb 2020 11:26:29
Ah yes Angel, because we've been spoilt with attacking coaches since his arrival.

04 Feb 2020 12:11:52
Ah okay sepp, so it's always been the coaches fault? What?

How's he done for france then?

04 Feb 2020 12:49:49
Just read what I put initially.

04 Feb 2020 15:59:29
'It's purely down to poor coaching, failing to realise the strengths of each player and force them into playing a tepid brand of counter attacking football that's devoid of any ideas or creativity'. Sounds like you're blaming the coach here.

I mean, there comes a time where we can point the finger at the actually player. After 3 coaches at club level and 1 at national level where the player has consistently been poor, the blame is not 'purely down to poor coaching'.

I think you need to re read what you wrote.

04 Feb 2020 16:56:42
I don't know what you're arguing over. Read over the whole thing as a whole rather than taking an excerpt.

Summary.

Martial talented, but poor application.

Coaching. Poor and unable to get the best out of the players.

04 Feb 2020 16:56:51
Angelred/ Ken and those who feel martial is awful and consistently rubbish - genuine question for clarification in terms of uniteds problems where does martial sit?

In previous posts I've put uniteds priorities as getting a RW, a CDM, a pogba replacement, a plan b striker, a pacey CB

I would probably put a keeper that commands their area and has good distribution before looking at replacing martial but then i feel martial is doing alright not outstanding but he is doing fine.

04 Feb 2020 17:23:04
He is rubbish schnauzer.
Just like januzai. Waste of space.
I'd sell him pogba and ddg in the summer and build from there.
Add mata matic smalling jones lingard andreas and shaw to that list. All either rubbish over the hill toxic or just should never have been signed.
Ddg being the exception i just think henderson will be better.

05 Feb 2020 09:12:14
Ken - I agree on all of that except the martial part, I would expect martial to do better for whatever team januzai is playing but maybe he is having a banger i ain't a clue how he is doing these days.

At the end of the day as long any player is replaced by a better player I won't be complaining, not sure I trust united to do that though.

05 Feb 2020 10:31:16
That's fair mate.





 

 

 
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