28 Nov 2019 10:34:15
The biggest quality of a good manager is his ability to get the best out of the current squad which Ole is failing at the moment. We cannot and should not do a hit and trial method if we consider us to be a big club. We can't sit here for 3 years waiting for his players and then see what he can do. Sorry but that's a big risk and i wouldn't take that risk on Ole the manager. For me "knows the club" is irrelevant to what a manager can or cannot do. SAF didn't know United when he joined, Jose didn't know Chelsea, Arsene didn't know Arsenal and so on.
I honestly don't see the improvement in the team, a few players here and there are improving but you simply put that down to may be a season or two under their belts but the team as a whole has regressed. We are 9th as things stand. We bought 130m worth of defenders and still shipping in goals for fun. Each week there is a mistake and we quickly point out that it was his mistake and his mistake. Where is the accountability of the team as a whole. Ole after the Sheffield match said that the performance was good. I mean really? Bar the 10 minutes of all out attack, it was dire as hell.
I never called for sacking of Moyes, LvG or Jose even when they were boring me to death but with Ole i really get enraged. I wouldn't have asked him to be sacked if he were appointed based on his skills as a manager and if i thought he were capable to turning things around. But i really can't see that happening. You put a proper football manager in his position and i am ready to afford him as much time as he needs.
28 Nov 2019 10:57:18
Enough already. We get it. Ole is inept, clueless, inexperienced and whatever other synonyms you want to use to describe him. Feel like my eyes are going to pop out reading the same things over and over.
28 Nov 2019 11:30:05
Ed025, this was supposed to be a revert to one of your posts down the page :D. don't want this to be another in the long line of posts demeaning the great one and open up a can of worms. You see the first reply on this.
St Lucia, its a similar feeling for the other half of the spectrum when people tell us that he is good and the squad is useless.
{Ed025's Note - its all about opinions in the end shan, i respect yours mate even though i dont agree with it...but time could prove you right i suppose..
28 Nov 2019 11:35:35
Agree St Lucia, the same people banging on, I saw Red Man taking about relegation again yesterday, let’s assume that Ole is not the answer and that he is not a top coach, but let’s step back. There were clearly issues at the club, a lot of players not good enough and some questionable attitudes so some form of clear out was needed. It is clear that that is what is happening with Lukaku gone, Sanchez hopefully gone, Pogba looking like he will be gone, same for Matic. Smalling is on loan (I would have kept him) and we have made 3 reasonable signings. Add to that the continuing emergence of McTominay, the gentle integration of Greenwood and Williams, the time given to other youngsters, it becomes clear we are starting a major rebuilding programme. Perhaps the club has accepted it will take time and papering over cracks with a shiny signing is not a long term solution.
Let’s assume (and it’s a big assumption) that we sign another 3 players who integrate well and take us a step up. Let’s assume a couple of the youngsters step up and become solid squad players. Let’s assume we can offload those players surplus to requirements.
I’m not convinced by Ole but I like the changes of playing staff so far and lots more is needed. The lack of application against Bournemouth and Sheffield United was dreadful and needs addressing, Maybe he is reshaping to hand over to someone else (whether he realises it or not), maybe the club is blind and thinks he’s a Messiah. Whatever the situation, continually posting he is useless and needs to go is pretty pointless.
28 Nov 2019 12:26:10
On paper do you believe we have a better squad than the likes of City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs?
I would imagine you could even argue that Arsenal and Leicester have first teams comparable or even better than ours. Most people would snatch your hand off if you offered them Ndidi, Maddison, Tielemens, Vardy and Chilwell. That's five players from Leicester who most would swap straight into the United first team.
So if there are at least four better squads then the reality is 5th is the best we could achieve if playing to our potential. That's not factoring in things like injuries that can significantly impact a teams ability to play to their potential.
The quality in our squad is mostly locked up in young players with potential. We have DDG, Fred, Maguire, Jones, Rojo, Pogba and Lingard who are players in their peak years 25-30. Everyone else is either young and improving or declining such as Matic, Mata and Young.
Of those players in their peak years most would only sat DDG, Maguire and Pogba are good enough to be first choice. Of those three Pogba has been out injured and is uninterested in playing for us. While even Maguire has been getting criticism lately.
Compare that to most of our rivals they have 5-6 players on average who are considered good enough and in that 25-30 age bracket.
That means for our squad to achieve the best of its ability we will NEED 3-4 young players under the age of 25 to step up and perform at their full potential consistently.
Is that really likely regardless of who the manager is?
28 Nov 2019 12:29:54
Tony i agree this is painful and i, for one, am ready to take a step back and not post the same again and again. But everytime i see a post (essay) hailing him to be the messiah and that he needs time to do this and that, i cringe and the hand is forced. But yes, this has gone on far too long and i will try to not force my opinion on others day in day out. Once a week may be :P.
28 Nov 2019 12:34:26
regardless of manager the team is average,
there is a few decent players but you just have to look at our bench its awful
put any of the top 4 teams midfield in ours and we would massively improve
as it is we don't have the midfield to dominate games.
28 Nov 2019 12:35:09
Gary Nev was spot on about the effort and attitude of the front three at Shef Utd first 70 mins.
Everyone knew that Fred and Andreas were going to be under a lot of pressure against a very good midfield
Young players are going to be up and down. But the application and effort should never be in question. Martial and Rash in particular were strolling around with their bottom lips hung out as if the game owes them a favour. James was the source of almost all our threat, and made a few poor choices when it came to end product.
The coaching team will no doubt be hammering that into the players. They are young and they will learn.
When they are good, that front three can be as good as any in the prem. If they can crack the issue of consistency we will not be far away. A midfield that wins the ball and can create chances would be a good start.
28 Nov 2019 12:56:25
We drew with Liverpool and Arsenal, beat both Chelsea and Leicester. Them having better squads than us does not and should not affect us one iota when we play the likes of Newcastle and Bournemouth.
One the year the man is in the job and we look worse than when he took over. Our shiny new defenders have helped us keep 2 clean sheets this year, ironically against the two teams that have better squads than us in Chelsea and Leicester.
Jose was sacked for being 6th mid December. Our next 3 games are Villa, Spurs and City. Let's see are we 6th on Oles one year anniversary?
How long should it take for a manager to implement their "style" on a team?
28 Nov 2019 13:54:20
We are were we are and it’s down to many things. The club being run like amateurs, shocking recruitment. We are well off because ultimately the playing staff are not at the level we as fans want. That’s it.
28 Nov 2019 14:10:45
Dodgy please watch the games rather than listening to neville spout nonsense out of hindside. Rashford, Martial and James were consistently making runs and the ball rarely came 5 yards near them, periera a a midfielder had a 60% passing success rate, how exactly are the forwards suppose to do anything with that brilliant a display behind them.
The reason james was the only so called threat was because he was the poor guy who had to drop 20 yards back to get the ball and hope that he can carry it forward for either of martial or rashford to make something off it, because we rarely had any meaningful posession around the final third of sheffield's goal.
28 Nov 2019 14:30:50
CSM, I watched the game, and I thought Rash spent more time with his hands on his hips, pouting, than making runs. I didn't need Neville to point out what was staring me in the face. Yes, our midfield was creating nothing, but there was also nothing in front of them giving them an outlet either.
28 Nov 2019 14:43:38
Me too Stevie, they spent the first half pretty static.
28 Nov 2019 15:00:51
Noucamp how are they supposed provide an outlet when the ball doesn't reach them, how many through balls did we attempt in the entire game? I don't remember one. I saw awb, fred and periera mess up 5 yard passes to stationery james and martial. All 3 made multiple abrogated runs in the match as the game is called football not track and field.
Right now, this team creates nothing for the forwards. One of the reasons we struggled so much when martial was injured because rashford doesn't have a clue what to do with the ball other than shoot it when he can see the goal, james is raw and has a long way to go to be consistently creating chances for others. And no one else is good enough to step up. Especially ole's 2 golden boys lingard and periera.
There seems to be a weird blame culture among utd fans right now where we keep blaming the only part of the team that is working right now. let's not criticize the midfield who outside of mctominay don't help in defense or attack, let's not criticize the backline which folds every time an opponent attacks us, let's all pile on the forwards because it is their fault that we create nothing for them to finish, its their fault that we keep conceding soft goals, their fault that the rest of the team can't keep possession.
28 Nov 2019 15:21:32
The criticism should be aimed where it's warranted. The forwards shouldn't get a free ride, just because they're better players. In fact, you could say that being better players, they should be criticised more when they're not pulling their weight. Despite the midfield's ability limitations, there's no denying their work rate. That work rate needs to be replicated elsewhere as well.
It seems to be a factor when we play the so-called weaker teams, and one that they'll need to fix attitude-wise. There are no easy games, and teams like SU will not just sit back and let you play your pretty football. Rash almost looked like he was affronted that SU weren't giving him time to play. I like all three of our forwards, but their work-rate's and attitudes need to change.
28 Nov 2019 16:17:15
Well it took pep 15 months to implement his style at city and he had a better starting squad and spent how much?
It took klopp 2-3 seasons starting with a squad on par with ours and he's spent how much?
28 Nov 2019 16:45:06
Mort if we are comparing managers, why don't we compare their resumes before they joined their current teams. And you also conveniently ignore the fact that that within months of joining anyone who watched the klopp and pep teams could see what style and tactics they were trying to implement, even ole would be hard pressed to explain how exactly it is that we set up to play.
28 Nov 2019 16:26:41
Mumbles mate, I don’t think that’s the issue. I think he is clearing out and trying to build and develop. In some respects, this reminds me of around 1990 when we won the Cup. We had been all over the place yet we won the FA Cup and also whacked Arsenal 6-3 at Highbury. I’m not comparing Ole to SAF but the team could go either way. Poor purchases and we regress, good purchases, and a couple of youngsters developing and we will step up. It’s not a quick fix, Ole may well not be the man, but it will take patience.
28 Nov 2019 16:38:18
Mumbles, I think it's fair to say our squad is better suited to play sides that will come out and attack us.
We have pacy forward players, but no one behind them with the intelligence or ability to find to half spaces or a round the corner pass when teams sit deep in a low block.
The other issue is that we don't have a player to provide that shield in front of our defence. With players in some games able to waltz through our midfield at will.
Gary Neville suggested that a midfield duo of Pereira and Fred doesn't even look midtable standard.
But with no one else to play we are stuck.
There aren't any managers anywhere who can turn players who aren't good enough into world class talents. People rave about how Pep improves players, yet in three years at City he has sold or moved on all bar 2 or 3 of the original 26 man squad he took over. So why didn't he just improve the 23 players he has let go? Fact is, you can help a player develop and reach their potential, but you can't get a player to elevate themselves above their ceiling.
28 Nov 2019 17:48:00
Is it just me that is missing all of the posts hailing Ole the messiah? Really strange people keep replying to posts saying that when I’ve not seen one.
28 Nov 2019 17:59:08
I don't think he was even anyone's first choice, GDS, but it's a tried and tested tactic when trying to whip up a lynch mob. Overstate the position of the other side.
29 Nov 2019 10:07:15
GDS, Those comments are targeted at anyone who doesn't toe the party line that Ole is clearly the worst manager ever in existence.
Like Stevie says, its about overstating the other sides position to make them sound deluded or unrealistic.