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25 Nov 2019 19:41:50
Ed can we have a poll on whether ogs has improved rashford and martial or rather are they better players today than they were under Mourinho or lvg? To me they just look like the same players just with more playing time and responsibility.

LLC sure rashford has scored more this season but I don't think most will agree he has improved.

Martial has improved the team, but I don't see how he is a better player than he was under Mourinho.

Shappy I agree with you on the pressure point, pochettino will have to prove he can handle it but other than that you are nitpicking a bit.

He's improved players not just young players, how did likes Schneiderlin look playing under him to playing here or at Everton, right now we have a manager who isn't improving anyone, so how is it better to keep ole than get pochettino?

The transfers have been hit and miss for pochettino sure, but again have ole's transfers worked? They are all good players but frankly if you spend 50mn on 1 and 80 mn on another being good is the bare minimum expectation. And yet they haven't played that well other than james or should I say haven't been used well.

Ole's spent 130mn on defense and yet we are no better in defense. Everytime the other team starts to attack we concede.

Mbd please tell me you are not serious about the ddg bit. Mctominay has looked good at times but has been better than under jose. Fred I will give you, but the bar there was set so low I would wait until he looks like a decent footballer consistently before praising him. Periera is trash, he is as useless as no 10 as lingard is. I don't think rashford or martial have improved that much.

{Ed033's Note -

Rashford and Martial Poll

Agree0 Disagree0

25 Nov 2019 20:41:48
You make some good points. However, its all very subjective.
For me martial is an enigma.
On the negative side he is symptomatic of everything that is wrong with the team. Simply by being totally inconsistent. Very few players make a huge and significant impact in every game so i don't expect that. But i do expect him to show the desire and work ethic to make a significant impact in every game. You just don't know what your going to get from one game to the next.
On the positive side he does have tonnes of ability and he is still relatively young.
I think mctom has come on in leaps and bounds but apart from him i don't see any significant improvement in any other player that played under previous coaches.
Our midfield is in chronic shape.
Ole thought he could build a team around a player that told him he wants to leave. That was one of the worst managerial decisions he will ever make.
To his credit ole has given williams mctom and to a lesser extend tuanzebe and greenwood great opportunities.
Personally i think greenwood is the best finisher and most natural cf at the club at the moment. He will outscore any of our other players if played there.
That would levee the opportunity for martial to play no10.
Fred, now i don't know what to say about him other than that he is a massive disappointment.
I like his energy and his desire to do well. But my o my he can't pass the ball or control the ball very well at all. It mad to think he has played for brazil and plays for United. I swear you could pluck 20 midfielders from the championship who could do better than him.
Andreas. Like, where do you start?
He has players for brazil too. Jaysus lads the world's gone mad. I mean he is not a 10 nor is he a winger or a midfielder.
Jones. Once again where do you start? Ill try to sum it all up in 1 word. Hopeless
Rash. Rash you could say is on a nice run of form probably playing as well as he ever has. Not sure he has improved as a player.
Lindelof hasn't improved under ole ddg is getting back to his best but ole doesn't coach him.
Awb got to the byline more under Roy at palace because he is a more attack minded coach than ole.

26 Nov 2019 10:33:47
Rashford is showing a lot more quality. That ball for greenwood was stunning and he’s showing a lot more than just that. I would say he’s been improved, as when he previously played from the left under Jose he wasn’t as much as a goal threat for me.

26 Nov 2019 11:02:53
Thanks for the poll ed033. Ofcourse its subjective Ken, its the reason I asked for a poll. I don't think players like rashford and martial have improved much and you seem to think the same, but many posters disagreed with this in the thread below.

26 Nov 2019 11:14:50
Rashford has more goal involvements (11) than Mane (10), Salah (9), Sterling (8), Kane (8), Son (8), Bernardo Silva (7), Firmino (7) and Maddison (6).

Only Vardy (15), De Bruyne (12), Abraham (12) and Aguero (11) have more or equal to Rashford this season in the EPL.

I think its fair to say he has had a better season so far than he has had at any point in his career and better than most give him credit for.

26 Nov 2019 11:39:20
Nonsense stats. Goal involvement what's that? The final pass or assist?
Means nothing without context.
He has come back to form but the last 6 games don't reflect the previous 6.
He is playing well just now. Snoring for england brought him out of a rut a month ago and he has not looked back. Thank god for Southgate.

26 Nov 2019 11:43:06
Shappy the nos have improved but is it because he has improved or is because his responsibilities have and how much of the attack has been centered around him. He's 3rd in team in terms of minutes played just below ddg and maguire who have played every single minute this season and if transfermarkt is accurate then the only forwards who have played more minutes than him are Aubemeyang, Vardy and pukki, He's played upfront more times than not given martial's injuries, he's taking the free kicks and the penalties.

26 Nov 2019 12:03:57
Ken, goal involvements are goals and assists. He has scored as many EPL goals as Kane and Sterling and is joint 5th for goals scored.

He has more assists than Salah, Mane, Bernardo Silva, Sterling, Maddison, TAA. All players who are praised for their ability to create goal scoring chances for their teammates. The only players to have more assists than him are Andy Robertson and De Bruyne.

All those players have played a maximum of 13 EPL games and most have played in all the games available.

He is keeping up scoring with some of the best goal scorers int he EPL and is creating as many goal scoring chances as all bar the very best creators in the league.

Then consider he is younger than all bar TAA out of those players.

He did recover his form while playing for England. However, I think its more than just having a good international break.

Rashford started the season in good form, then had a big drop off in form then has recovered it well. That pattern also follows WHERE he has been played. He started off on the left with Martial as the CF, and he played well. Then Martial got injured and Rashford was push in to the centre and his form dropped. It didn't recover again until he was moved back out to the left. Coincidentally where he plays for England, and where he played during his up turn on international duty.

Rashford needs space, he is a more complete player than most strikers, as seen by his ability to create goals for his teammates as well as score them. However, he doesn't play well with his back to goal.

If Rashford plays the whole season on the left then he will have a good season. If he keeps having to be pushed into the CF position he will have an up and down season. However, that depends on Martial staying fit and/ or the club bringing in another striker in January.

26 Nov 2019 12:49:29
Agree with some of that shappy. Is is better off the left but then again so is james and imo so is martial. Martial offers too little up front and comes in and out of a game too much to be a cf and doesn't get into 6 yard box enough. Greenwood is the only and best cf at the club imo.
Martial could make a better no10 perhaps considering we don't have a natural no 10 either.
Its crazy trying to play a system we don't have the players for and that's the coaches choice.

26 Nov 2019 13:11:17
Shappy / stato.
If you can defend rasford with stats why don't you put ole's stats up v pep and klopp and rodgers for example like you have done rashfords v kane sterling etc
You are as inconsistent as our players.
There are 20 better midfielders than fred in the championship. There are 20 better midfielders than Andreas in the championship and probably 20 better managers than ole in the championship. i'd rather have big sam or pulis in charge they are less negative than ole and would get more from our players imo.

26 Nov 2019 13:20:21
Be careful what you wish for ken.

26 Nov 2019 13:55:17
Ken fully on board the Ole out bandwagon, I think Ken is actually the driver of the wagon lol.
Only kidding, obvs you think Ole isn't up to it and to some part I agree with you but we have made our bed now we have to lie in it, changing things yet again will only cause more rebuild and Poch as well as he did at Spurs had a better core or player than we have here.
I dunno if I can take another change in manager, playing style, personnel in the back ground, players, it causes lots of disruption and what of the likes of Scotty Mac, Brandon, James, some of our highlights this season, would Poch want them, who knows.
Guarantee that Poch will have fans on his back within a few months and we will be back to this again.
Sometimes doing nothing is the hardest thing, Ole may well get to sign the right players but I believe when he has he then will step aside for someone who can take these players to the next level, Ole is the only man to be able to actually oversee our transition without too much of a fan backlash, another manager would not get that time. I think Ole will and should stay.

26 Nov 2019 14:00:57
Mort i think the longer we leave ogs in charge the worse it will get.
Who the answer is is anybodys guess.
We know the squad is poor. We know the coach is poor and very inexperienced.
Im not one of those suggesting poch would come in and get us top 4. In truth i'm not sure anybody could without 2 or 3 purchases in jan.
Personally i hope alegri gets the job.
Swapping and changing is not ideal but leaving the wrong person there is a worse decision.

26 Nov 2019 14:23:55
I don't think allegri would be a success.

26 Nov 2019 14:48:02
Although to be honest I don't think anyone could be a success currently.

26 Nov 2019 14:54:03
Agreed pal but some could do better than others i'm sure.

26 Nov 2019 15:02:41
Ole more negative than Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis. Heard it all, now.

26 Nov 2019 15:52:13
He is noucamp imo. He is a very negative coach. Sets up the team in a negative way with what appears to be a negative mindset.

26 Nov 2019 16:32:35
Wrd. I have always felt that ole should be judged in jan. However its just getting worse.
The football is the worst I've seen since the late 70s early 80s.
Boring insipid football ountuated by some decent attacking play on the odd occasion.
Ole seems to be unable to motivate the team.
Pogba his go to guy still wants out.
Its a mess and getting worse so i would don't think waiting until jan is the prudent thing to do.
Im not sure ogs is capable of getting the best out of this or any team.
Its a shame but it would be an even bigger shame if we did nothing and it gets even worse.

26 Nov 2019 20:46:07
We must be watching different games, then Ken. While I accept there have been individual negative moments under Ole, largely due to team deficiencies, I don't think anyone could honestly say that the football is more negative than that you see under the two managers you mentioned. I don't think a striker at Utd through our glory years, playing under Fergie, alongside the likes of Giggs and Scholes, could even begin to want to play negative football as the norm.

26 Nov 2019 21:44:01
The football isn’t negative. The players trying to play are not great. A top number 10 like a Maddison would transform this team. I’m interested to see someone like Levitt get a chance because he’s got a great range of passing. Things aren’t great right now, but we should look at the bigger picture too.



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