Manchester United banter 83882


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08 Oct 2019 12:54:32
We dithered or didn't go for it when Pep might have been an option, we dithered and didn't go for it when Klopp might have been an option. Are we now dithering again? Is there someone or a number of people unable to make a decision on what is going on? It is almost like there are ego's that might be bruised if they have to admit the mistake. Esteemed Ed002 says the mistake needs rectifying so it seems like denial of what needs to happen. If they dither again now and miss a manager like an Allegri for example it really shows the other problem, the lack of leadership higher up . Make a decision, deal with the issue now in the International break and let's move on.

Agree2 Disagree0

08 Oct 2019 13:10:03
Red Man, If the results don't improve soon, it's quite obvious that Ole will be shown the door.

However, I don't understand the obsession with Allegri tbh.
Poch has not won anything and has questionable reputation over transfers.
But he handles young players well and brings the best out of them. So for the moment, he could be the ideal fit considering we have a young squad with promising players coming through the academy.

08 Oct 2019 13:35:26
We are two years late qith Allegri but its still never too late. Better late then never and we might get back on track.

08 Oct 2019 13:36:02
First choice would be Allegri, Blanc and then Poch.

08 Oct 2019 13:48:04
Allegri would be a poor choice. His slow style of play suited Italy which is a slow league anyway. Also he was guaranteed success as he had the best squad with the richest owners and little competition. He would struggle here with this squad.

08 Oct 2019 14:44:17
He is very good Mort if you give him the resources to back him.

Klopp and Pep ain't going to be around for ever and Allegri is a top coach.

08 Oct 2019 15:05:40
Red Man - Our owners are predominately motivated by increasing revenue and the value of the Club. If this can be achieved without sporting success then I don't believe they have the inclination or motivation to drive sporting achievement. Sport is surely about competing and striving to be the best yet we have owners that are satisfied with mediocrity if steady revenue streams can be maintained.

This attitude permeates throughout the Club and without a clear vision or strategy nobody really understands their role or what the Club represents. When sporting success at any football club isn't the primary concern chaos reigns.

What the Glazers crave is stability. They desire consistent top 4 finishes, (some attacking football would help), so they can maintain revenue, increase sponsorship opportunities and exploit the brand. Forget looking at the top of the table, those lofty aspirations were retired a long time ago. Despite our retched start we remain only 5 points behind the real target of 4th. With players to return from injury and more than enough time to recover there is no need to panic or change the manager just yet.

The problem is when you set 4th as the standard there becomes no need, motivation or even desire to go beyond this. I think Mourinho suffered most from this inertia. Two trophies in his first season, followed by a 2nd place finish in the league and Fa Cup finalists in his second season; progress was palatable if unspectacular. What the Club needed that summer in order to compete and close the gap with City was significant investment in the playing squad and a determination to back the manager and chase success. In reality parity had been restored, in the eyes of the Club Mourinho was already successful, their ambitions had been met and spending was predictably restricted. No CB or RW were recruited the solitary additions being the lacklustre Fred and the untested Dalot. Mourinho seemingly seething by the Clubs lack of ambition set about his own demise. The rest as they say is history.

Some will point to significant investment in the squad since SAF retired but this is money generated by the Club and its enormous fan base. Our owners haven't invested a single penny of their own money and I think we are more than entitled to expect the Club to reinvest most of its self generated income back into the playing squad. We remain a football Club after all. If this didn't happen than we merely become a cash cow for rich foreign owners to increase their own personal wealth on the back of a footballing institution with over 100 years of rich history. We are a Club rebuilt from the brink of unspeakable tragedy and reinvigorated by a man with an iron will and burning desire to succeed. Unless are owners are able to demonstrate this same courage, desire and vision to prioritise sporting success over personal greed we will continue to languish in the shadows.

We have witnessed similar situations at Arsenal where for over a decade they have been consumed by averageness and mediocrity whilst the Club remained stable and profitable. Whilst the fans embarked on civil war and arguments raged about a lack of leadership, desire and commitment the Club consoled itself by looking at its bank balance. It all sounds a bit too familiar. I look across North London and I'm not convinced Potch's recent "success" at Spurs can be labelled that. Spurs are without a trophy in nearly a decade and whilst top 4 finishes may be celebrated in the board room their best manager in a generation becomes increasing more frustrated and apathetic. He craves success but the Club uses different instruments to measure progress and soon it will be too late to realise what they had. Soon they will find that lovely new stadium half empty and they will only have themselves to blame whilst their excellent manager seeks another Club that shares his own ambition. This isn't just a problem experienced in the corridors of Old Trafford.

Whilst I don't necessarily advocate the methods used at Real Madrid there can be absolutely no doubt about their desire or ambition to be number one. Managers and players are judged by the very highest of standards and their is no confusion or ambiguity regarding the Clubs ambition or aspirations. Only the best is tolerated and if such standards aren't met nobody remains at the Club very long. Like every Club they have periods of transition or stagnation, they have their own ruthless way of dealing with such periods but their expectations or ambitions never change.

Unless sporting success is the absolute priority it will never be achieved. There is little merit in appointing a winner if the Club doesn't want to win. It will only lead to conflict and disagreement. A new manager may temporarily improve results but they won't return us to the top unless the Club are committed to being the best.

08 Oct 2019 15:47:25
And would be given the resources? We haven't adequately backed the last 5 managers.

08 Oct 2019 16:36:53
DLIB u can hardly blame Glazers not investing lol.

This is just 1 i.e Man Utd pay Rashford, Martial, Maguire and Mata around £8000000 a year more than Liverpool pay Salah, Van Dijk, Firmino and Mané.

08 Oct 2019 16:42:07
Well said DLIB. Only new owners will change this. Pray for the Saudi's.

08 Oct 2019 17:11:00
Kop - Its self generated money made off the name of one of the biggest and most famous sporting institutions in the world. I think as fans we're entitled to expect much of that money to be reinvested back into the Club. We are at football club not a conglomerate business and success should not be primarily measured in shillings and pence.

I'm not naive enough to think that our problems can be fully solved by mere investment alone and my post was more about the Club lacking the vision or appetite for sporting success. Until the Club is committed to being the best and performances on the pitch become the priority with everybody pulling in the same direction our malaise will continue.

08 Oct 2019 18:11:36
DLIB U failed to undestand finance isn't the reason u have been rapidly going down.

U don't need tons and tons of money to beat the likes of Newcastle etc.

08 Oct 2019 18:15:47
DLIB if you check out transfer market . co. uk you'll find MU have spent over 4 times more than LFC over the last five yrs, that timeframe covers all of klopps rebuild.

Only city have outspent you over 5/ 10 yrs (not by that much) (how with ffp regs I've no idea) .

Despite this expenditure I'd only take AWB and young James purely for rotational reasons from your squad. Wheres the money gone?

Historically the team that spends the most wins and so on down the league, yet you're 3 to 6 players short according to fans/ pundits, quality strikers are 100mill plus (you need two) , quality AM and CMs are pushing 100mill (you need two) .

Your recent positive financial report (low profits high turnover)
was for the last year you were in the CL, with a warning about a expected drop in the next statement due to no CL this season, there's little chance for next season either which reports say will kick in penalties from addidas.

How you going to spend 400 to 450mill?

08 Oct 2019 18:34:43
Dlib wjy do you expect that money to be reinvested by the owners in such massive sums
To banks give take there profits and reduce their interest rates for their customers?
Do tesco reinvest their profits to make things cheaper for their customers. Do they hell. Their owners want to maximise their returns just like the glazers.
Do rolling stones do free concerts for their fans because they are already rich enough. Do they hell. very naive if you think the glazers are here to give away their profit.

08 Oct 2019 18:35:08
That is true Kop, but I think you are missing the main point. Money has been made available and been spent badly. Of that there is no doubt. But the whole culture of the club has changed. There is no longer a desire, a demand even, to be the best. The whole club seems to be happy now with aiming for top 4 just so we can achieve CL qualification - and of course the financial rewards that go with it.
To be the best takes desire and hard work and the correct attitude from top to bottom.
United don't have that any more. We are just happy to tread water and accept mediocrity - as long as the money keeps rolling in.
I know the fans are bickering and arguing, and I know there will always be some who demand instant success. But I honestly think the vast majority of United fans would be content if we could see progress being made, and the club striving towards a common goal - even if it means going without trophies for e few seasons, but that doesn't seem to be the case. We made bad decision after bad decision and don't learn from them. The answer seems to be to throw money at the problem and hope it goes away. And therein lies the problem. It's not just about the 'glory days' but more about seeing progress and correcting the mistakes.
And that is not happening at ANY level at the moment.

08 Oct 2019 18:55:04
Agree betty! Money isn't the problem.

UTD need a solid structure foundation. Despite citys massive spending they've solid structure/ foundation to rely on.

At the same time football is all abt cycles.

08 Oct 2019 19:10:45
Thanks for explaining Betty saves me writing another essay 🤣.

08 Oct 2019 20:24:23
Great post DLIB

The point is Glazer's spend money to Guarantee top 4. When it's achieved they hardly spend like Mourinho's last year.

08 Oct 2019 20:35:51
Forgot to say it was a great post DLIB, as much as I'm enjoying your clubs struggles I'm trying not to gloat, I'm just fascinated how it can go so wrong for one of the biggest clubs in the world so quickly.

That said how Fergie won his last prem title with that squad I've no idea, the rot had set in well before then regarding recruitment.

{Ed047's Note - because we were stupid enough to see them RVP

09 Oct 2019 07:02:03
Great post DLIB.

The jokers running the club have wasted the money by investing poorly.

SAF had men with character in the dressing room such as Rio, Giggs, Evra, etc, . who would give everything for the club.



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