Manchester United banter 83856


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04 Oct 2019 23:41:53
Okay let's just look at Ole has to work with.
De Gea: contract signed, committed
AWB : great signing committed
Maguire: great signing committed
Shaw: still inconsistent, unsure
Lindelof: improving, committed
Young: past it, but committed
Pogba: doesn't want to be here.
Matic: past it and wants out
McTominay: very committed, worker
Mata: past it but committed
Fred: trying, but not at the level
Periera: not good enough, but committed
Lingard: big ego, squad player
Rashford: maybe ego getting in the way but committed for now
Martial: think he's committed now as a CF
James: great potential committed
The rest are kids trying to make it, and all are committed. So the squad is very weak and our senior players are either past it or want to leave. Once we get in a few (DM, RW and AM) first team players who are committed, we then become a team working together, all fighters and hard workers and that will be the foundation. It is so important that we get the right characters in during the next two Windows and then we start to rise again, like a Phoenix from the flames. I think this is what Ole is trying to build, but will he get the support from the board? and will he get time? are the two big questions.

Agree11 Disagree0

05 Oct 2019 00:00:53
I don’t know many top quality players willing to commit themselves to a club with mid table form in the hope that it will magically turn into a title challenging side a few years down the line.

Ole is left with a small young squad lacking quality. But he has to give some hint that he’s moving in the right direction.

Our form since Feb has resulted in the sack for previous managers, and it seems to be gradually getting worse. Does anyone see a game plan other than being fast? I think a lot of us realise that this is the worst United have consistently played in decades. It’s not all his fault, but what is he actually building, and who would want to be part of what we’re seeing every week on the pitch?

05 Oct 2019 03:41:13
How are we supposed to get these committed players redconl? You think likes of Madison or sancho or any actually good players will want to come here for anything but money?

05 Oct 2019 07:33:54
Okay Danny I can almost taste the negativity from you. What do you think needs to change in order for us to be attractive to the top players. Please give the name of OGS's replacement and why you think your plan will work. Are you able to give any assurances of success? Not trying to goad or troll you but there is a lot of (justified? ) criticism here without solutions being offered. I'm keen to understand what/ where/ how, but with the names, our future restoration to success and glory will be. I'm becoming a tad worn out by criticism without solutions. Others who do nothing but criticise and berate please feel free to give your solutions but please include names not just blah blah.

Thank you.

{Ed001's Note - why do they have to include solutions? That is up to those employed to do so, nothing to do with posters on here.}

05 Oct 2019 07:59:50
A good post Redcon, but even with the players he's got at his disposal, we should be doing a lot better. We've had lots of injuries and that's been a big problem. But he has persisted with 4231 despite the fact that we do not have a striker who can play that role. It shows a genuine lack of flexibility and tactical awareness.
Personally, I think we need to somehow convince the Glazers to spend money on Sancho, maddison, Fernandes, mcGinn and possibly another striker, and then get rid of pogba, lingard, Jones, matic, mata.
I think only that level of ambition is going to get us on the way back, and even then, we'll need coaching staff and a manager who can play to their strengths. I think the above can play a 343 formation with fernandes and McGinn playing on right and left of midfield and Maddison calling the shots.
Then and only then we'll see a true footballing team with serious aspirations.

05 Oct 2019 08:55:44
I know this is meant to be an overall post on the state of the squad but Redcon how can you look at this season and say lindelof is improving.

He has regressed considerably this season, shirking responsibility, losing arial duels, giving the ball away a lot this season. He has cost us some pretty important goals, ayews against palace and vestegaard against southampton spring to mind.

AWB has had to do a lot of covering for him this season and i would not be surprised if tuanzebe usurps him in the centre back ranks sooner rather than later.

05 Oct 2019 09:02:24
Ed001 because constantly complaining about the same old same old without a solution becomes pointless and one might just as well constantly post "because".

{Ed001's Note - life is a bitch isn't it?}

05 Oct 2019 09:49:23
Scooby I expect most will name the failed Tottenham manager as the number one pick.

05 Oct 2019 10:02:55
Scooby, if you had cared enough to go through the pages you would have got the names you asking for. Heres the post-

{Ed002's Note - There are numerous coaches who could do the job perfectly well but the club, should they need to, will have to think about availability, cost, desire etc. They also need to think about the level of risk there would be involved. Laurent Blanc is available, knows the club, is very good dealing with players and his overseers - and has the perfect skill set to get the club back on its feet. Quique Setien is available but there is a reason he would likely not be viable.

It is easy to argue that Max Allegri could do a good job, but he has been messed around in the past by Manchester United and it would take some persuading. Simeone could do the job but would not be interested. Carlo Ancelotti could do a fine job but wouldn't leave Napoli for Manchester United. Erik ten Hag is another who would do a fine job but has a job waiting elsewhere when he wants the move and I cannot see him being interested in Manchester United.

Pochettino would certainly be of interest and first choice but perhaps rather more expensive than the club is willing to pay. Any negotiations over the cost would be a struggle.

05 Oct 2019 10:06:18
Ed001 Yes.
Mort 😉.

{Ed001's Note - there is really nothing that can be done other than maybe start threads on different topics? Otherwise it is just going to be like this until something changes with the club. Just think it will not last forever though, eventually things will turn United's way once more.}

05 Oct 2019 10:12:20
Sha, had you cared enough you might have noticed my question isn’t directed to you 😉.

05 Oct 2019 10:36:28
Thanks Ed, I do find it strange that the price for questioning Ole on here is coming up with the solution to a problem that the club has spent years, and millions of pounds, trying to solve to no avail. But jinkies Scoob just let me bend over and pull it out of my furry behind.

My point is that it’s hard to be positive when the club is consistently performing at a mid table level. Any manager is going to be hamstrung by the ineffective structures and recruitment strategies at the club. But Ole needs to show some capacity for forward momentum.

Even if we accept that he’s doing a big reset - he has to give some indication that this is having positive effects. We need to ask two key questions:

Have the performances on the pitch improved?

Has Ole imprinted a clear and effective playing style?

I would answer no to both. The longer Ole has been in charge, the worse performances have gotten, and the more confused we seem on the pitch. In the last game the attack didn’t seem to have any guidance, just aimless.

I don’t see why people are in any way convinced that Ole will succeed here with more time. The evidence suggests that the opposite is true.

{Ed001's Note - I dread to ask, but the obvious question here is - why is your behind furry?}

05 Oct 2019 10:36:57
The Ole debate will dominate until something changes. No point talking about what's for dinner when the house is on fire.

The pro Ole fans remind me of gamblers in over their head. Throwing good money after bad praying that they hit the jackpot so all their troubles will end.

Granted there's problems everywhere you turn at the club, majority of them were here before Ole took over. But he has shown nothing, not one glimmer of managerial nous to offer any hope towards the future.

Ed001, your unbiased opinion on Ole please? Do you think he's cut out for elite level management?

{Ed001's Note - I have said from the start he is just a cheerleader there to appease the fans. He is not cut out for management full stop. Like I said a few weeks ago in an Ask The Ed, he will get given more time because he is Ole Gunnar Solksjaer, a fan favourite, that some will support just because of who he is, long past it is obvious he is out of his depth. This is the problem with bringing in past players of your club, they are judged on how they played and what they won then. If they were crap players who played in a crap team, they have to overcome that bias to stand a chance. If they were a fan favourite, like Ole or say Keane, they get given time to make a bit of a mess into an absolute shambles, long after it is obvious. People will turn a blind eye because they love them. It is very difficult to put the feelings you have for someone aside, which is why nepotism very rarely works. It is always better to have people who you can judge free of emotion working for you.}

05 Oct 2019 10:55:03
Some say my father was part dog, others that I was cursed by a witch. Either way, it has a what can only be described as a soft downy feel like a baby duckling.

05 Oct 2019 11:09:39
Well that escalated rather quickly 😂.

05 Oct 2019 11:13:02
Mort you just pulled off a Red Man :)

05 Oct 2019 11:43:29
Thanks ed. It's obvious if you look at the results but more damning is the performances. There's nothing there to suggest any light at the end of the tunnel.

Ed002 saying Blanc, Poch and if we build bridges, Allegri may be available, then I think it's a no brainer. I'd even take Wenger in for a few months while we put some effort into finding a competent manager. Leave this situation to go on too long and that list of managers won't be attainable and we'll be giving the job to Eddie Howe.

{Ed001's Note - Setien is also available if you want great football to watch.}

05 Oct 2019 11:50:25
Mort did WHAT to Red Man? 🤣.

05 Oct 2019 12:11:13
Sure why would we want that ed?

{Ed001's Note - good point, it would be horrible if you enjoyed the games. At least for the rest of us!}

05 Oct 2019 12:54:23
Personally stated Allegri before the other options Ed based on his time in serie a but having looked briefly at the others mentioned it seems Blanc could be the forerunner, based on win/ sucess rate and association to the club. Granted his players to pick from at, national and psg level were of a high quality but there you go, h can't be blamed for that. Would say that if / when ole goes, there must be some fundamental changes within the club as well as the playing staff or it won't matter who takes over the reins.

05 Oct 2019 13:16:11
I don't get this 'if we finish outside the top 4 no-one will be willing to play for us' stance. Look at Chelsea when they finished 10th, managed to sign a couple of players, including the excellent Kante, then one the league the following season. Granted, they had a better overall squad than we do currently, but they remained attractive in spite of the mid-table finish.

05 Oct 2019 13:35:21
LLV, you neglect to mention that Chelsea won the league the season before they finished 10th too. Players could see that season was a blip due to Jose falling out with the entire squad, and were rightly convinced that they could challenge again under Conte.

In contrast, we have finished in the top 4 twice since Fergie retired. It isn’t a blip, our average league position post Fergie is 5th. It’s a completely different situation, with multiple managers failing, and numerous players’ careers stagnating once they’ve signed for us.

05 Oct 2019 13:31:56
Blanc has been out of work too long.

Setien I don't know enough about.

Allegri for me is a no. Dull style of football when people want attacking play.

Poch I just don't rate. I'm not sure I've said this.

05 Oct 2019 13:45:47
Mort that failed manager at Tottenham finishes in top 4 every season and was a CL finalist last season, if ole did that you would want everyone to hail him as the next SAF.

05 Oct 2019 13:57:09
Danny, that doesn't take away from the fact that Kante, who had just won the league, left the champions to join a team who finished 10th. Now, I'm not expecting the likes of Maddison or Rice to be winning the title this year.

Sure, the team has performed well below par for several years, but the foundations and the history are still there to appeal to many players. If we begin to show signs of improvement in the second half of the season, after another transfer window, then those signs may be enough to attract. I'm pretty sure that if we didn't have the injuries we've had this season, we'd be in a much better position, Martial was looking confident up front and Pogba hasn't been able to get into any form of stride, it was clear he was struggling in the last two games he played. We'll see after the break if the team is just as static as it has been since the injuries began piling up.

05 Oct 2019 15:00:23
Blanc would be a good and sensible choice.

Poch has over achieved with spurs and that has come to a definite end. But think he would be a good fit for us. has improved players, plays a good style of football, if we back him like others were backed at this club he'd do well IMO.

But we don't all have the intelligent insight Mort has, so we are all probably wrong 😂😂.

05 Oct 2019 15:05:49
LLV another way of putting it could be kante left the then champions to join a team that won the league the prior season. Remind me when was it utd won the league?

This whole concept of wanting players who don't come for money is stupid, the really good ones also want to win things but their primary concern too is money, it's just that if they are winning they would settle for less than when they aren't winning things.

05 Oct 2019 15:30:03
CSM, I think the issue is that we haven’t been able to convince players that we are capable of challenging for the biggest prizes, and have used money as a means to fix this.

We will always have to pay top wages to get top players. The issue is if you have nothing to offer but big wages, you’re not going to get motivated players.

Take Sancho, for example. Dortmund look like they could sell next summer. He’s an excellent young player, already playing for a CL level side. If he leaves he’ll be looking to step up to a genuine top level club. At present we aren’t a step up from Dortmund, and don’t look like we will be anytime soon. What reason other than money would he have for joining us?

The bottom line is that without clear evidence of improvement on the pitch, motivated players that want to compete at the very top won’t come here.

05 Oct 2019 15:54:44
I disagree danny, I don't think our idea of how to fix our problems is at fault it is the application of it that is the problem. We could have spent the 500k we spent on Sanchez on a dybala or a kante or a varane and while it would be a lot of money it would have improved us. Same goes for the 50mn on fred or 75mn on lukaku. Spending money and bringing in players using money as the big factor isn't the problem, We just have done a really poor job of it.

05 Oct 2019 16:28:22
CSM, Liverpool haven't won a league in almost 30 seasons, they've attracted plenty of talent in the meantime (despite being in and out of Europe) . People are overdramatising, the club have created a hole, it's going to take time to crawl out of it, but panicking and over-dramatisation isn't going to improve the situation, only dig that hole deeper.

05 Oct 2019 17:01:10
The thing is CSM, none of those players were interested in joining us.

We were in for Kante, but he wanted Chelsea.
We’ve been interested in Varne for about a decade, and he just isn’t interested.
And Dybala rejected us this summer, despite not being in his manager’s plans.

The point is that relying solely on money doesn’t convince the right players to sign. There’s a reason the likes of Di Maria, Pogba, and Sanchez signed for us because no one else was stupid enough to stump up inflated fees and wages. Unless we can show top quality players that we are on the way back to the top, money will only convince players with a lack of character, motivation and ambition to sign.

They’re hardly going to be enticed by the Manchester weather and Cheshire night life.

05 Oct 2019 17:03:47
Ole is getting g things right in terms of getting rid of deadwood and players who don't want to be at Utd.

However I still do not know what is Utd's style of play. Thought it would be a more pressing style but we seem to be going back to playing deeper and on the counter. We are still to find an identity.

05 Oct 2019 17:09:04
LLV, The landscape of football has changed over the last 10 or 15 years. The top table of football has gotten a lot bigger. It's not a closed shop anymore. If Sancho for instance becomes available in the summer, we'd want to hope Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico, Juventus, Bayern, PSG, City, Liverpool and maybe Chelsea aren't interested. Because if the kid wants to win honours, they're all in a better position to over that. Let Ole have 2 Full seasons and you could add another dozen teams to that list.

05 Oct 2019 17:20:36
We have unfortunately forgotten the first rule of holes: if you are in one, stop digging.

05 Oct 2019 17:46:28
Poch hasn't overachieved. He's been helped by the decline of arsenal and ourselves. He's been awful in the transfer market. How many players has he actually improved? How many youth players has he played at spurs? How good has their form been since January?

05 Oct 2019 18:01:08
Danny the names i gave were just examples, yes likes of dimaria haven't worked out but look at what city did or what PSG have done or Chelsea did early on. You think aguero, silva, toure, neymar, mbappe etc went to their respective clubs for anything other than money?

Our problem as i said is not the philosophy but its implementation.

Take sancho for eg, he might not want to come here right now but if we pay more than others are willing we can convince him, sign a good manager and get a proper am, dm and a striker and the next time we try and get another player like sancho we won't have to overpay as we might then be in the position to win things, but to start of the process we will have to pay over the top because the only thing that can convince players that we wish to compete for titles is to get players who are good enought to do that and only way to get them is to overpay because that is the only thing we can offer.

Signing players who want to play for the pride of wearing the utd shirt is nice in theory but not in practice as unless we start winning stuff we cannot really demand that from the top ones as they won't care enough and the ones who do aren't good enough.

06 Oct 2019 09:45:39
@commom_sense Moyes. Re Maddison. I think he made it known that he s a United fan and is interested. I think in his case there s more than money on his mind.



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