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02 Oct 2019 12:59:49
It looks like Pochettino is coming to the end of his time at White Heart Lane. I think if we are to get out of this slump, we are going to need a coach who has a record of improving individuals and making the team greater than the sum of its parts.

We will see a major overhaul of the team over the next few years. It is a pivotal time that we are on an upward curve so we can attract the players we need to move up the league. Will players of the sufficient quality want go join if we fail to finish in the top 4/ 6?

Breaks my heart that Ole is not cut out for the job but he hasn't impressed tactically. Which players in the team has he improved? Are we a team that is underachieving or are these group of players the 6th best team in the league?

Poch is exactly what we need. Knows the league, has a clear style of play. Carries himself well. Not afraid to play youth. He is everything Ole talks about doing without delivering any of it.

The only sad part of this is that we will have to go through another horrible patch before Ole will go and that is not something anyone wants to see. Ole will have to get it right very quickly or we should be doing everything in our power to bring Pochettino in.

Agree12 Disagree0

02 Oct 2019 14:25:30
With Zidane looking dodgy and Madrid top of La Liga, why would Poch come to us?

02 Oct 2019 15:15:46
you could get pep in to manage us and this team would still be where we are,

we have a few decent players but that's not enough, we are an average team that needs at least 6 or 7 players to come in.

but yet again the manager is taking the brunt of it.

02 Oct 2019 15:34:13
Mumbles,

Will the same people who let Moyes go into a season with just Fellaini signed without any of his top targets, blocked Mourinho from making the changes he saw fit, from giving him a CB and then gave Smalling and Jones new contracts and let Herrera, Lukaku, Fellaini, Sanchez go without any replacement be in charge if Pochetino arrives?

If so, nothing will change. Its just another good manager with a good reputation that we will destroy.

To answer your question. This squad, at least the first 11 is not even a top 6 first 11. I would put City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Leicester as the best first 11s in the league in that order. Probably squads too.

Two midfielders and a right winger were an absolute necessity at the start of the summer even before selling Lukaku and Sanchez after which a striker is also a necessity.

02 Oct 2019 15:37:17
Mumbles - sorry but disagree re us needing Poch. His teams reach a certain level and then break up, players moving on and it seems like big issues at spurs atm . Would rather grovel to Allegri for the summer when he will be available as he is still in some sort of contract with Juve: get rid of 5 of our existing and bring in a mix of first team players and squad players whilst promoting certain youth players.

02 Oct 2019 16:08:24
Allegri doesn't play attractive football though.

02 Oct 2019 16:25:34
For me the issues run too deep to bring any other manager in right now.

Sadly I don't see Ole as being the long term solution, although I would love to be proven wrong.

The decks still need clearing, we have at least half a dozen players who need to be moved on. Either too old to be a long term member of the squad (Matic, Mata and Young), not good enough to be in the squad (Jones, Rojo, Andreas Pereira) or players who should only be squad players (Smalling, Fred, Lingard) . We then have players who maybe don't want to be here (Pogba and Sanchez) or players who due to their inability to stay fit should be moved on (Bailly, Martial? ) .

That leave us next to nothing to work with.

I think Ole was brought in to be the fall guy, the guy who clears the deck, resets the "culture" and starts the process of moving the squad in the right direction.

Yet any manager who over sees such a turn over will suffer backlash from the players. Unfortunately as much as we would like to see it no club can afford to pick the manager over the players. The playing squad is the biggest expense for a club, hundreds of millions spent bringing these players in, and hundreds of millions more spent on their wages. When they decide they aren't going to play for a manager there is little a club can do. You can't sell 25 players in one window, and unless you can move on ALL of the disgruntled players then you run the risk of a few bad eggs turning the rest of the of them.

Gone are the days when you can get tough with the players. Just like gone are the days where a player like Keane could bully his teammates into running harder and giving more.

If we bring another manager in while the clearing process is still on going then that manager runs the risk of getting the backlash.

Ole might be the best manager available, but he might be the one best placed to do the dirty work that needs doing, setting the club up for success further down the line.

We need to accept there are no quick fixes for where we don't ourselves currently. It will take 2-3 summer windows to clear the decks, bring in young hungry players and for our own youngsters to develop and be ready to challenge.

The reality is we are a project that isn't going to come to fruition until 2021/ 2022 at the earliest. Probably looking at the 22/ 23 season as being the first where we will truly challenge for top honours.

Which top manager will join knowing that they will have to survive 2-3 years of not meeting the fans expectations (winning every game with great performances if live chat is anything to go by) to have a chance at the end of that of winning something. Few managers even successful ones stay longer than 3-4 years at a club.

We need Ole to stay for at least this season and probably next season to. It won't be pretty, and we will have to endure some games rather than enjoy them.

But bringing in another new manager who will want instant success will only hamper us in the long run.

02 Oct 2019 18:13:20
Allegri is the Italian Mourinho. Most of his successes have been with Juventus - a very big fish in a small (Serie A) pond.

02 Oct 2019 18:14:26
I don't think any fan out there expects instant success. All we can hope for is that we are going in the right direction. As of right now we are not. How far can this team drop down the league?

I agree the squad still needs a major clear out but my main worry is that Ole has shown very little in terms of light at the end of the tunnel. He has no history of implementing a plan. I still don't know what we're trying to do on the pitch. We're not solid defensively, we're very slow building up play from the middle and we're toothless up front.

Ole will be the latest to feel the heat from the higher ups at the club being clueless. But the majority of the players have regressed. If we fail to get top 4 this year which is a very clear possibility, will players be busting a gut to join Ole? We don't have the structure in place to plan ahead in the transfer window. We can't continue to throw money at the situation. And I don't think Ole and the club on a downward spiral, will be able to attract the players we need to get out of this mess without offering silly money that will put us back in the mire.

Pochettino would give us a clear direction on the pitch. A blue print to build upon over the next few years while the rest of the club can get it's act together (unlikely I know) .

If we leave it too long, the calibre of our next manager may be completely different then it is right now. Ed002 often jokes about United fans deserving Sam Alardyce. Keep sliding down the table and that may be the situation we find ourselves in.

02 Oct 2019 19:20:11
Mumbles, I've been saying for some time that the club structure needs changing. From owners, to Woodward, to the physios, the scouting team and the players.
We can hire and fire as many managers as we want, but as long as the Glazers and Woodward are here, this club will be going backwards from footballing stand.

They simply do not give a flying . about the football side. And in Woodward, they have a totally inept idiot in charge of footballing matters.
This is here for the long term, so best to forget about it and accept mediocrity until the owners decide they've had enough.

02 Oct 2019 19:49:58
Sorry to disagree but with De Gea Maguire AWB that's three thirds of a very good back five. Am not sure about Lindelof and for me Shaw gets caught out of position too easily. In midfield Pogba is the only player I woukd keep. Up front I would keep Rashford Greenwood James and Martial. To sum up we need maybe four more players to have a really good team which could compete.

02 Oct 2019 19:56:07
Shappy

You say “We need Ole to stay for at least this season and probably next season to. It won't be pretty, and we will have to endure some games”

Frankly if that happens the clubs will be skirting the relegation zone and few of the better players will not go anywhere near us. I despair at the continuing idea that just giving someone time will automatically work, it won’t. Denial, it is denial of the simple fact Ole is in way over his head, continuing to perpetuate this idea it will all be sweetness and light because he has time is sheer folly, it puts the club at risk of failing. If someone was in charge who had the relevant experience it is a reason to wait. Right now it is a crossroads and the abyss waits.

02 Oct 2019 20:04:28
Shaps, glad you are now starting to realise the deficiencies in both the squad and OGS. Although some players need to be moved on and some need to be brought in, OGS should not be the guy to reset the process etc. He needs to be moved on now.

And what manager gets 2 to 3 seasons in order to build to get honours, absolutely none, living in a fantasy there.

The Glazers need to make decisions and makes decisions now, restructure the upstairs, move poch in and get him what he needs now. He won't be given 2-3 years. The club need to make urgent decisions now if they want to ensure that they don't go through another 4 managers.

02 Oct 2019 20:53:30
to be truthful there aren't a lot of top top managers available; our brief at the moment should be to get some points, build confidence then we can play keepy up, or rabona wars. Just watching the bin divers and confidence is key as they are (just been sick) playing attractive stuff and getting results. Saltzburg aren't a pushover also.

02 Oct 2019 22:14:53
Spot on that shappy couldn't agree more.

03 Oct 2019 06:41:15
Agree with Shappy.
The transition wouldn't be pretty. Ole is reseting the culture but the injuries are hampering our progress.
We have shifted some players and brought in 3 who have had immediate impact and looks like the 3 best players on the pitch.

Rumours are linking us with Chilwell, Maddison, Sancho and Declan Rice.
British core, hard workers, young and talented with peak years to come.

It could be the beginning of new era. However, it all depends on how we can convince them to join us.
If we do convince them, we will start to become a dominant force once again.

03 Oct 2019 09:16:02
TRD, that is about £350 million worth a players. Do you honestly think Sancho would join us? There are players out there who weren't born in 99, the all conquering Man Utd is what they see when they watch Premier League years. If you were a young player making a move to further your career, how far are United down the pecking order of desired clubs?

We can't afford to let Ole play football manager for 2 years because by then, we could be labelled a "Sleeping giant" that hasn't won the premier league in a decade.

03 Oct 2019 09:28:47
Shappy what you are suggesting is madness.

We are supposed to be the BIGGEST club in the world and all that jazz. So we should behave that way.

We need an elite senior management team focused on football in place asap.

We have huge cash reserves and can afford to spend £600m every season.

The club need to select the youth they want to progress and then clear the decks. Then go on massive recruitment drive overpaying for the best available eg Sancho, Madison.

It could be done this season. Look at Chelsea, City and Liverpool. Good recruitment and investment brings success.

As for the manager he's a dead man walking. we all know he isn't good enough, his mistakes with selection and substitutes is open for all to see. His naivety in press conferences and constant reminders of 99 are played out and sound like the ramblings of a has-been.

The sooner we start behaving like an elite institution the better.

03 Oct 2019 09:50:21
"And what manager gets 2 to 3 seasons in order to build to get honours, absolutely none, living in a fantasy there. " Klopp?

Poch is not the answer. He's not a winner. Makes poor buys and all his teams are mentally fragile. He won't end up at Madrid either.

03 Oct 2019 10:31:14
Liverpool had a history of absolute mediocrity, challenging for the league twice in 20 years. Hiring managers like Hodgeson and then taking a chance on Rodgers. Man Utd didn't hire the Fulham or Swansea manager, we hired the Molde one.

The reason Klopp got time was because he was implementing a clear style. You could see what he wanted to do. They finished 4th and then went about and spent north of 200 million on recruitment. It's no surprise that they are improving every year.

Oles ceiling as a manager is quite low. He'll never be an elite coach. Pochettino has the potential to go to the top and Man Utd could be the platform for him to succeed.

03 Oct 2019 11:14:34
spot on that mort,


dont get the hype with poch at all.

03 Oct 2019 12:00:58
Consistently getting Spurs Champions League football while the club moves into a new stadium, improving the majority of players he coaches, sets up and plays the game the way Ole talks about. Kept the core group of players at Spurs despite interest from other bigger clubs.

It looks like he's coming to the end of his time at Spurs but he has done a really good job. He is a far superior manager than Ole. We need to improve every area of the club when we can.

03 Oct 2019 12:32:15
Guys, we can throw our weight around all we want, but as the Ed's have said over the summer that only hampered our attempts to bring in players. We thought we could bully sides into accepting low offers because we are "Manchester United", it didn't work.

In the short term world that has become football, where managers and players rarely ever see out the 4 year deals they sign do you really believe that those managers and those players are interested in what a side did 10 years ago? If you haven't won or competed in the last 3-4 years then many players and managers will start to wonder if you will compete in the next 2-3 after which most of them would be aware they might be looking to move on at that point. Unless you can show them a clear upward trajectory you will struggle to bring in the very best.

It's hard for us to appreciate because we love our club. But ask yourself what would a potential manager or top level player see in our side that they couldn't get at City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Juventus, Napoli, PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich?

Even sides like Spurs, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Inter Milan etc are interesting sides who are on an upward trajectory and could be seen as at least an equal step to us at present.

Very few top managers will choose us over those sides with the club being in the malaise it currently finds itself. We need to get back to basics and start an upward trend. That starts with clearing the way and bringing in the right sort of players. Both things have happened so far under Ole. If we can have another summer that sees 4-5 players leave with 4-5 players coming in that have a similar impact as the three we have brought in this past summer then the club is in a good position, especially if young players such as Tuanzebe, McTominay, Garner, James, Gomes and Greenwood have had a season or two under their belts and are ready to become regular key contributors to our side.

03 Oct 2019 13:06:22
Mumbles, you said absolutely none. I proved you wrong. Yes Liverpool had been mediocre for 20 years with 2 challenges. We've been mediocre for 10 and haven't challenged. We're turning into Liverpool. We didn't hire the Swansea manager true but we hired the Everton one.

There is a plan there but injuries and executive incompetence hamper us.

I say again Poch isn't the answer. He's done ok with Spurs taking advantage of the decline of ourselves and arsenal. But he isn't in that top bracket of coaches.

03 Oct 2019 13:25:01
I believe Pochettino could make that jump into the top bracket of coaches, but he isn't there yet. He's done a great job at Spurs considering the financial restrictions he has at Spurs. Regularly doing better than Chelsea, Arsenal and ourselves despite the fact that all three teams have a bigger transfer budget and most importantly wage budget.

He plays good football, and he has developed several players. Yet, he had a chance to win the EPL when Leicester beat them to the punch, and they failed to really take the game to Liverpool in the UCL final last season. That inability to push Spurs to the next level could be understandable if they didn't have the chance to do so, but they have had a couple of great chances to win one of the biggest trophies in world football and have come up short twice not due to ability but due to mentality.

Some coaches come into management with the ability to push a team to clinch their chances, others have to learn by missing out, while the others never learn to clinch those chances. That is what separates the good managers from the great ones. Good managers do well with what they have, great managers push teams to excel and win those decisive matches.

03 Oct 2019 14:26:38
My concern about Poch is his signings. Years after he took over spurs, most of the players he brought are nowhere near the players they should be replacing.
The team is still dependent on players he inherited.

03 Oct 2019 14:43:09
Great unbiased reply Shappy. The fact is, Ole will get time to prove himself. Everyone would love to see him succeed because that means United are on the up. We'll get to see how this plays out.

Mort, get a grip of yourself. "I proved you wrong". Considering we are talking about opinions, the only thing you've proved is you're a child.

03 Oct 2019 15:49:54
Mort Mumbles and Shappy seems to me there are elements of truth in all your arguments. The club structure obviously needs addressing and should be the first thing on the agenda as without a form foundation nothing of lasting value can be established. It's probably true that Woodward should be left to make money and we have a director of football to concentrate on football matters. It's probably true that we just are no longer the biggest attraction in English let alone European football nowadays with City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs ahead or on a par with us. Its possibly true that Ole is not going to be good enough and its likely that Poch may not be good enough to get us back to the very top although short term he would probably be a good move. What's also true is that there are very few top managers available or likely to be in the near future. The other thi G which is undeniably true is that even top players play better when they are confident and not worried about how they play. If and it's a big if. If Utd cN go on a long winning run we might see just how good the current younger players could be.

03 Oct 2019 15:54:25
But then Shappy that doesn't mean you downgrade yourself and start going after 3rd grade material like we have now. Ole has simply not done anything special (even the transfers that you go on about) . Maguire was wanted last season but we all know that Jose wasnt backed. We got a fresh young RB in Dalot last season and even then we knew Jose wanted AWB. So what has Ole done differently?
We all want the best for the club. You say patience and most will agree but most will say, not with Ole. Ole isn't a manager you could put your trust in to save your life. He has his calibre with Molde, that's his depth. Molde is a small pond while Man Utd is the Ocean. Ole won't survive the waves let alone the tides.

03 Oct 2019 16:11:46
Mumbles you state opinions as facts. When your wrong your going to get pulled up on it.

03 Oct 2019 16:26:53
Should gone and got Evans over Maguire.

03 Oct 2019 17:02:52
What exactly did you prove me wrong about Mort? Please elaborate?

03 Oct 2019 17:20:13
You're deluded Mort if you think a manager will get 2-3 seasons of building at this club.

03 Oct 2019 17:24:42
Shan, which third grade material have we gone after?

Maguire and AWB were two of the highest rated English defenders in the EPL. Hardly third grade.

James was a young gamble type signing, one which looks like it will pay off. So kudos to the scouting department on that one.

If you're referring to Ole as the "third grade material", well when we decided to give him a long term contract he was at the end of a record breaking run of form with our club. Form that surpassed BOTH Sir Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson, our two greatest managers.

Hindsight is 20/ 20, and if they waited until the end of the season then they might have made a different decision. But that is by the by now.

The only thing for certain to be gained by changing manager again now is another dead cat bounce scenario that everyone loves throwing at Ole.

There is no guarantee that they would do any better in the long run. People bang on about having the right credentials and the CV but as we have seen with both LvG and Mourinho that it didn't stop them from failing and neither saw out three years with us.

If there was a manager with experience of clearing out players not good enough, developing young players into world class players and a proven track record of bringing in the right players and blending that all together to take a team from also-rans to champions then let's go hire him.

But there isn't, there are very few managers world wide with a track record of staying more than 3-4 years at any club at most.

So we are at the start of a long term project that will take 3-4 years to complete which will cause the managers to suffer a backlash from the players at some point during that project which will in all likelihood cost that manager his job.

How many world class managers do you see queuing up for that job?

However, if Ole stays one more season, completes the turnover and moves on the players who aren't part of our future brings in 3-4 more key players for our future and develops a few youngsters to the point where they can step up.

Then that paints a very different proposition to any potential manager. He can come in with Ole taking the flack while he has a decent young squad and the ability to add another 3-4 players to mould that squad in his image.

Or we can kick Ole out now, hire another manager who probably isn't good enough, he will feel more pressure to get results instantly and will only focus on the here and now rather than the long term which he will know won't benefit him. He can continue trying to overturn the squad suffer backlash in 2 years time lose his job and we can be back at square one.

Whatever floats your boat.

03 Oct 2019 17:56:38
Yes Shappy, Ole is the garbage i was referring to. Record breaking run beating got him the job so similarly the current record breaking run should cost him his job. Same yardstick.

03 Oct 2019 19:51:45
Shan you are an absolute embarrassment calling out a club legend with such words.

03 Oct 2019 20:32:36
An embarrassment you say TRD, you mean like the team we all support led by a manager who has won nothing but relegation.

03 Oct 2019 20:37:16
Ah, the insults, don’t worry Shan, when Ole has us in the relegation fight the embarrassment will not be yours.

The issue I have is the give Ole time merchants have nothing to base this decision on. Nice words at press conferences, that is it.

Ole is the failed Cardiff manager who didn’t just take them down, but was given new 9 players and only when he showed he was still hopeless in the seven games of the new CHAMPIONSHIP season was he sacked.

A club PLAYING legend, not a managerial legend. It’s emotion and sentiment driving the Ole bandwagon.





 

 

 
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