Manchester United banter 83681

 

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01 Sep 2019 15:53:26
Hope everyone's in a bit better form today.

Seeing plenty of disagreements etc, but I just wanted to throw my thoughts in. I'm not looking to have a go at anyone, but I'm trying to give what I think is fair and balanced view of where we are at the moment.

Looking at the squad we all know about the lack of depth, nothing further needs to be said. The issue we have is that we have not necessarily replaced the players who have departed from the starting team, ie Lukaku and Herrera. Which again is something we can debate.

Now there are two ways we can look at it, one being it's truly horrific management from the board in the sense of either a lack of backing, poor recruitment or whatever. Or we can look at it from a different angle, as ed001 says Louis Van Gaal (regardless of anyone's opinion on him he's just the example here) would have a squad of maybe 15/ 16 senior players and rest supplemented by youth. Long term, this could well be a benefit for us. We know off the talented youngsters we have in Gomes, Garner, Levitt, Williams, Chong and of course Mason. Given time those lads could end up being starters, and having that platform to develop playing first team games would be great, and in the long term could be the making of a great side, but they need a chance.

Personally I think the balance is somewhere in the middle, I think we needed one or two more players this summer but I like that we didn't seem to buy for the sake of it and haven't stood in the way of some of the younger lads potentially getting a chance. However, in saying that I would have loved to have seen Bruno Fernandes here, but if there's a plan for someone like Angel Gomes to get his chance then I'm happy to wait. I genuinely think there has to be some understanding between ole and the board with regards to his position this season and how this club moves forward. We will likely know come Christmas whether this is a plan or Ole just wasn't backed.

Now onto Ole, many on here know I back him. Reason being, he's not an arrogant man who cares about himself. He cares about this club, which is refreshing. However it's a results business, and off late they've not been good enough. Tactically we've had some great days under him, away at spurs, arsenal and Chelsea in the cup for example. We've also had some shockers, ie the wolves games last season and the palace game at home.

Yesterday I was happy with the changes, I felt they were the right ones. Matic freed Pogba to get further forward, shame he was rubbish. However, at the moment he likely hasn't got the tools he wants at his disposal, which is a shame because I think the way he wants to play would be quite exciting. Time will tell with Ole, but I don't know if he will be good enough. I don't think anyone will, because I don't think his vision for what the team will be, is anywhere near complete. I can't think of any manager working with this squad of players who would produce top results week in week out, and that's down to failure in recruitment of players and former managers.

I guess to conclude, I think this is going to be another long season. Another season of patchy results, and some good ones too. I feel we are at a stage where Liverpool were when klopp took over. It hurts to say it but they got it spot on over there, they've waited for the right players for his style, bought players to specifically play a role in his style and look at them now. I think we will find out we are doing something similar and waiting for the players ole wants to play his way. Regardless, it's all going to take time, and in that time we need to be prepared for the good and the bad.

I hope this post makes a bit of sense, I've tried to be balanced and look at it from all points of view. I just hope there's a plan, and if Ole is given the boot around Christmas for poor form it will show there isn't one.

Just to end on a positive, Dan James looks a cracking little player. Reminded me a lot of mane when he was a bit rawer yesterday. Lots of movement, good attitude to working and a cracking goal. More of the same please.

Have a good one folks,

Caolán.

Agree10 Disagree0

01 Sep 2019 16:15:07
I reckon we are more a stage when liverpool had dalglish as manager and spurs had Sherwood as manager. Both temporary stop gaps who slightly reset the culture of the club before a top quality manager came in to take the reigns.

We need a klopp, pep or pochetino level of manager, i realise they don't grow on trees and also that doesn't mean i want ole sacked this instance but if say for example pochettino was suddenly to become available at the end of this season, i would bite the bullet and offer him the most attractive offer to entice him to the club and thank ole for all his efforts.

01 Sep 2019 16:21:37
The problem is that Ole isn’t resetting the culture. His appointment has allowed the deferral of hiring a DOF/ Sporting Director, and he is trying to recreate the culture under Fergie, a culture driven by Fergie’s personality.

01 Sep 2019 16:22:39
DSG,

If I’m honest with you I agree on Poch. I said to my mate who’s a Liverpool fan when Jose left we should move heaven and earth for him. I get the impression Ole could be the one we look at who hit the reset button, and will appreciate his work in a few years. I’d rather him succeed and manage us for the next 30 years winning trophies etc, but I’m not naive. Just hope we are patient and give him a fair crack at it.

01 Sep 2019 16:28:12
Danny,

Off course he’s trying to bring back the culture from sir Alex, because that’s the biggest influence on his career, and that culture brought us the most success. We’ve moved from that and started going after global stars, who are here for a pay check.
I liked the business ole did in the summer, I like that there may be a chance for the youth. I think in time his own stamp will go on it (if he gets the time) but I feel it can only be a positive if he gets the club back to getting players in who want to be there, and understand the importance of being at a club like united?

01 Sep 2019 16:35:05
I don't like to say this out loud Coalan but we should have gone all out for Klopp when we had the chance. Lots of United fans will shout me down for saying that now that he is in charge of the arch enemy and doing well.
I think the fans on here who doubt him are just blinkered because of whom he is managing. But at the time lots of us would have chosen Klopp, and personally I think he would have been the perfect fit for us - more so than Pep. Attacking, exciting football, gives young players a chance and tactically very astute, but also with experience of managing at the highest level and winning trophies.
But alas, that is all history now, and here we are on our 4th manager and still struggling 😕.

01 Sep 2019 16:45:59
The structure of the club under Fergie is completely incompatible with the modern era.

Fergie was overseeing almost every aspect of the club, and this eventually resulted in the stagnation of our academy and recruitment. This is with Fergie, and all the authority he brought to the fold.

The club has needed massive restructuring since he retired. Moyes, LVG, and Jose have all said that the club needs to modernise. The desire to get back to Fergie’s culture is driven by nostalgia and a lack of understanding in regard to how modern successful football clubs are run.

Plus, you don’t give young players the best chance to develop and succeed if they are dropped into a struggling side, lacking in quality, experience and leadership to guide them. We have lost 5 senior players since Ole took over, and only replaced one. It’s a paper thin, young squad propped up by youth players with limited top level experience.

01 Sep 2019 16:53:47
Danny that is all off field issues that ain’t Ole’s doing though? Like I said he can only work with what he has, and the structure he has.

If we got the footballing structure right off the pitch who knows what he could achieve. Ultimately no one will achieve anything without that imo.

01 Sep 2019 17:11:43
Ole is a symptom of the club’s refusal to spend the time, energy and resources necessary to compete at the top level of English and European football.

We were told last year that pressure was being put on the club to bring in a DOF or Sporting Director to overhaul our recruitment structures. After Jose was sacked the club promised to spend the rest of the season identifying the right manager and DOF to get the club back on track.

They used the good run in Dec/ Jan to give Ole the permanent job. DOF went on the back burner, Ole said that there was nothing wrong with our recruitment structures and strategy, and by the summer we were trying to bring in Rio or Fletcher for some Micky mouse role to fob supporters off.

The summer was business as usual, with us failing to bring in players needed in both midfield and attack. Ole applauded this, even stating that we didn’t need to replace our highest scoring attacker because we had a youth player with no experience who could take his place.

The last three manager’s have complained about our recruitment. The only reason Ole is in post is because he won’t.

01 Sep 2019 17:38:56
The only solution is the sale of the club and the removal of Woodward.

01 Sep 2019 17:43:16
Danny that’s complete speculation though? Just because he’s not throwing a strop in public doesn’t mean he’s not happy? Everyone criticised Jose for it.

01 Sep 2019 18:27:08
We did talk to Klopp and he was less than impressed with the vision Woody outlined. Tells us a lot doesn’t it.

01 Sep 2019 18:44:26
Mort,

I agree.

We have won a lot under the Glazers and they have backed successive managers in the transfer window, but their time is up, as is Woodward's time as being in charge.

Move Woodwars to commercial and sponsorship dealings only, get in a DoF and sell the club. They will make a fortune.

But we mustn't forget that the grass isn't always greener and as much as we would like a decent owner, we could end up with a Mike Ashley. shudder.

01 Sep 2019 19:00:02
AJH, I think I am right in saying that on separate occasions there were people high up in the club that were not convinced by either Klopp or Pep when interest was shown, hence interest never went any further.

I may we a little off the mark, but I think that was the case. If correct, how silly do those people feel now?

Actually they probably don't care. The corporate side is OK.

01 Sep 2019 20:24:45
Why do people think the we build the club looking backwards. You learn about history to ensure you understand how you got somewhere so you can build a better future. However, trying to recreate the past never works well

Great point Danny, the SAF years were built on his leadership and personality, the strength of that to drive success. Creating or trying to create an image is just a copy of the real thing, a cheap copy because the real heart, i.e SAF himself isn’t there. This is a massive flaw in what OGS is trying to do, replicate the past. Wilf McGuinness, lovely man btw, tried to recreate the Busby years and you can’t. If those sitting there think recreating the SAF years is a good move forward it tells you a lot and will only end in failure.

01 Sep 2019 23:37:28
I think Ed001 mentioned earlier Klopp wanted to manage Liverpool one day. So moving to Manu won't be a option I think so.

01 Sep 2019 23:52:25
That's right stg. He's always had an ambition to manage Liverpool and has never entered into any negotiations with Man Utd. I don't know where these rumours about him being rejected or rejecting Man Utd are coming from.

02 Sep 2019 07:27:30
Klopp himself has said that Man Utd showed interest in him - even contacted him- a year before he joined Liverpool.

I never suggested we turned him down. Klopp has made it clear he wasn't interested and has ambitions to manage Liverpool.

Certainly there were people at United not convinced by Pep, and I think/ thought that was also the case with Klopp. I just wander how hard we tried or how persuasive we were.

Doesn't matter now anyway. It's history.







 

 

 
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