Manchester United banter 82336

 

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10 May 2019 00:41:31
Lots of talk about the respective merits or otherwise of Moura and Lingard. I think it is unfair to Jesse to have a go at him when unlike Moura he has had injuries and also been playing in a team which has not had a defined way of playing for years,
and not had a manager who has instilled confidence into the team. More than that Moura plays in a team of very good players who for the most part are performing to a very high standard every week. Put Jesse in that Spurs team and he woukd thrive and shine. On another note I really do wonder if Alexis had a good pre season, was injury free and had the confidence of a manger to give him a run of ten games playing in a system that suits him, would finally be the talented goal scoring player he often was at Arsenal. I really think he could be.

Agree3 Disagree3

10 May 2019 07:16:29
Wouldn’t you be better comparing Moura and Sanchez as they were signed in the same window?

Really don’t understand why Lingard was dragged into this in the first place.

Better still, compare Lingard and Sanchez if you have to compare players.

10 May 2019 08:23:09
Wazza, sadly I think Lingard got dragged into this because for some reason our fans love nothing more than having a pop at our homegrown players. This is nothing new, Butt, Phil Neville, Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, Lingard, Rashford, McTominay etc etc etc. Have all been slammed by our fans. The common slur is that they would never have played for the club had they not been homegrown. Which is absolute rubbish. All of them are/ have been better than players the club have spent a lot of money on. Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, Obertan, Anderson, Smith, Young, Falcao, Blind, Schneiderlin and of course Sanchez. The player many have now pointed out should be the one we compare with Lucas Moura.

For some reason fans seem to think the homegrown lads get an easier ride of it. That they get some sort of favouritism. Which isn't true. They have to fight for their chances, it is so much harder breaking through at a top club where you have to displace potentially world class players who cost millions of pounds to get a look in. Where you get 10 minutes here or there, occasionally a game in the league cup. No real chance to play yourself into form, or get a run of games. Only what you do in training, and if you have a manager brave enough to back you and give you a chance.

Our homegrown lads have fought far harder for their chances in our side than any player plucked from another side.

Rashford had to fight Martial for a starting spot on the left, no one ever suggests it was Martial who had to fight for it with Rashford. Then the club go and sign Sanchez and no amount of hard work or fight or even performances made a difference. Rashford was dropped for the new guy no questions asked. Then when Sanchez was playing badly was he dropped instantly? No he was given a run of games to "play" himself into form. A luxury never afforded to any of our homegrown players.

McTominay was one of our best players when we beat PSG, he was dropped for Matic the moment Matic was fit. He was one of our best players in the second leg against Barcelona. Then dropped again soon after.

These lads fight hard for there chances. There are 35-45 players in our under 18's and under 23's. If 2 or 3 make it into the first team that is considered a success. That's the best part of 40 players who don't make it who for the most part work exceptionally hard, who give their all but never get the chance. Some obviously aren't quite good enough, some aren't good enough yet but is afforded a little more time could be. Others are just unfortunate enough to play in a position where they never get a chance.

I think it's disgusting how quickly our fans turn on these lads, how they make them scapegoats. That is something that is deeply wrong with our club, and it has nothing to do with the owners or the board or the manager. That is on us.

10 May 2019 08:57:09
All these sexy foreigners must be better than our own home grown lads mustn’t they? Lingard has scored some very important goals and was in great form, he got injured and hasn’t looked the same since. One think I do know is he cares. Same for McTominay. People on here have already been referring to McTominay as just a squad player, it does my head in. He’s a young lad, he’s seized his chance and got better and better as the season has worn on. He’s another one who clearly cares passionately.

Right now, nobody is playing well yet here we are singling out Lingard. How about if we’d signed Laporte instead of Bailly, or Silva instead of Pogba, or Kanye instead of can find a ‘better’ player in almost every position if you look hard enough.

10 May 2019 09:01:47
That's a brilliant post Shappy completely agree pal!

10 May 2019 10:04:52
Shappy, whilst i agree to your sentiment but you do realise you have cherry picked the failed transfers to compare. How about you do a comparison with a list that includes Rooney, Chicharito, Zlatan, van Persie, Ronaldo, van NIstelrooy. Heck even Fellaini scored a few very important goals for us while he was here but he wasnt ever given the amount of respect you are asking for Lingard. The reason for that is because he was born in a locality near you and not Belgium.

10 May 2019 12:51:13
I'm calling it now DLIB and Shappy are the same person 😂.

10 May 2019 12:57:57
Shappy, AJH, agreed as usual. A fancy name goes a long way to buying good will with blinkered fans.

10 May 2019 13:16:55
Angel, I've thought that myself sometimes 🤣.

10 May 2019 13:22:07
United Addict, I think he picked the failed transfers for a reason.

His whole point, I think, was that the players brought through the academy aren't given the chances that even our worst transfers are given. We buy in players who don't work, and yet they are given chance after chance, but we have youngsters who might make it, but we'll never find out because they aren't given a chance, and others who might not quite be good enough.

10 May 2019 13:57:02
I agree Thorne but just putting it out there like vanilla that these players aren't given a chance is incorrect. How many players have we tried putting in from the academy. Nick Powell (the next Scholes), Cleverley (the brand and another "the next Scholes"), Januzaj, Welbeck, Macheda etc etc etc. There are many that have been given a chance. So the point that i am trying to say is that for every Djemba Djemba there is a Powell who has been given a chance. Yes Sanchez has been a failed transfer here but when he was signed, we didn't know and name me one manager who would have said i would play Rashford ahead of Sanchez. Yes Sanchez has been miserable but Rashford has only been a millimeter ahead in that poorness scale.

10 May 2019 14:13:42
Thorne,

That's exactly my point. We bought Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger and let Danny Drinkwater leave having never gave him a chance. Within 3 years he has won the league with Leicester city playing a key role in that success. He then gets a move to Chelsea. It might not have worked out at Chelsea and no one is saying Drinkwater is a world class player. However, I think he would have done just as well, possibly even better than Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger managed, but he was never given a chance.

If the fans get on these players backs and don't have the patience needed with these young lads then it makes it harder for them to breakthrough.

All I'm suggesting is we give them as much a chance as we do with the players we sign. Is that really an unfair thing to ask?

10 May 2019 16:01:34
United Addict, all bar Januzaj were given their chances under Sir Alex. Januzaj was thrown in by Moyes. He was then shipped out on loan by LvG and promptly sold by Mourinho.

Now none of those players lived up to their potential yet it can be argued that several offered more to our squad than many of the expensive flops. Cleverley and Welbeck although not world class offered our squad far more than Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, Obertan or Bebe who were all signed to play in similar roles.

Macheda and Powell let it go to their heads. It's a shame but sometimes it goes that way.

You didn't mention players like Butt, Phil Neville, Fletcher, Brown, Evans or O'Shea. All had solid United careers.

What about players like Bardsley, Drinkwater, Michael Keane, Richardson? Good solid pro's who would be better than many of the "squad" players we have signed such as Darmian, Miller, Rojo and Buttner.

I also think my point seems slightly lost on you, or at least your missing the key part of it. Playing 10 minutes here and there, or one league cup game a month for half a season isn't the same as being given a chance. That's closer to token games to keep you happy and rest a player the manager actually intends to utilise.

Sanchez hasn't been given a few minutes here or there to show what he can do. He was given an extended run in the team. Even though he was playing poorly he was afforded more time to "play" himself back into form. That is a luxury none of our academy lads are given.

I feel the fans hold our youngsters up to an impossibly high standard to sustain. Rashford case in point slated for every tiny mistake he makes. Yet a 21 year old Rooney or Ronaldo were given a pass. We accepted they were learning the game so would make mistakes from time to time. But our own youngsters aren't given that same freedom by fans.

You see it on here every week. The team plays badly and loses, and the fans are lining up to place the blame at the door of the young homegrown lad. Fletcher, Cleverley, Evans, Welbeck, Lingard, Rashford and McTominay are always the ones to blame for poor performances not the supposed world class experienced players that were playing next to them. It's almost like fans begrudge a homegrown youngster for filling a space that could be filled by a big name fancy signing. Not that the loss is their fault for playing badly per se, but their mere existence has stop the club from signing the latest flavour of the month.

Keane or RvN or Vidic never got blamed when United lost even though they were the senior pro's in the side, it was Fletcher's fault as his existence meant the club didn't sign Seedorf, or Makelele or whoever.

The second issue seems to be that managers, possibly under pressure to make sure their expensive signings work out, seem to give more faith in those signing than in the homegrown youngsters. I imagine its easier to say to a young Drinkwater that your not playing this week than it is to a senior pro whom the club had spent millions on signing.

Either way it means these lads do not get a fair chance, if you were to compare the minutes played and the distribution of those minutes of the entire squad you would see that our academy graduates account for very few minutes overall. You would also see than many of the players most fans see as "not good enough" play surprisingly more minutes than talented young prospects who play in the same positions.

10 May 2019 18:35:50
United Addict, what utter tosh. I highlighted the players who have signed and not done well to point out the number of bad signings we have made that could have blocked the path of an equally or potentially better player coming through the academy.

Can anyone say Rojo has performed better than TFM or Tuanzebe could of?

We have lads who aren't born in or near Manchester in the academy who deserve a chance. For me Chong offers as much if not more than Sanchez. Chong wasn't born in Manchester, he wasn't even born in England.

I don't know why you seem to want to make this a xenophobia thing, it isn't. Certainly not with me. It has nothing to do with where your born, who you worship or the colour of your skin.

I believe homegrown lads (i. e lads who have come through the academy) deserve a chance at least equal to those who are bought in by the club. An argument could be made to even favour them, and why not? Why not favour the lads who support the club, who want what is best for the club, who would run through brick walls for the club over mercenaries who want to play for the club for the prestige and money it offers them.

Now that's not to say that is true of every lad to come through the academy or every player the club have signed.

Personally, for me all players, whether they have come through the academy or have signed for the club should be treated equally. There should be no difference. Both your get equal opportunities to play. At the moment my problem is that it is heavily tilted against the academy lads, and to make it worse the fans often seem to pick on them and put unequal amounts of pressure and expectation on them.

For me I am as excited maybe even more so at the prospect of Tuanzebe, Chong, Gomes, Garner and Greenwood possibly making their breakthrough next season as I am about any potential transfer the club bring in.

10 May 2019 18:37:17
United Addict, what does nationality have to do with it?

I'm talking about academy players who are from all over the world. Chong wasn't born locally.

All I want is for there to be a level of equality between the chances and opportunities afforded the "homegrown" lads as there are for the players we sign. At the moment it is heavily tilted in favour of the players we sign.

The reason I pointed to the signing that didn't work out was to highlight that not all signing work out. Yet many of these signing blocked the path of academy players. Now those players may or may not have been able to perform to a similar level or even a better level than those signed. My point is they were never given the chance.

We signed Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger while selling Danny Drinkwater with him never really being given a chance. He then went on to play a key role in Leicester winning the league. He might not be world class but he could have done at least as well as Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger, maybe even a shade better. But was never given that chance.

This is my point, if these lads were supported more by the fans and shown at least as much patience as we show the big money signings then maybe a few more of these lads could breakthrough and maybe we would have a few more first teams who actually give a damn about the club.

People are writing off Rashford and Lingard, yet there are still some who want to give Sanchez a chance and say that maybe he can perform for us next season if he has a good pre-season, and if the team set up differently next season. Where is that patience for Rashford or Lingard? It has nothing to do with where they are born, however, neither Rashford or Lingard walked off against Huddersfield unprepared to fight for the club. Maybe because they have come through the academy the club means more to them. Maybe not. But considering that most fans top concern is a lack of effort made by players, maybe we should appreciate the effort put in by the players who are working hard. Whether we paid a large fee for them or not.

10 May 2019 21:07:16
You talking to yourself, Shaps?

10 May 2019 22:19:39
Stevie, sometimes that's the only way I can get any sense on here. 🤣

On a serious note, I replied but it didn't get posted so I rewrote it a couple of times. Not sure what happened, apparently they all made it through much later. I'm not worried. Broad enough shoulders to take a little ribbing.







 

 

 
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