21 Jul 2020 10:25:19
Here is the "have we become the new Arsenal test?

The question. On Sunday evening if we qualify for the Champions League will you be on here screaming about the great achievement and Ole is the one? Then the fourth place or top four trophy parade begins. Order the open top Arsenal bus to parade across the site. If enough come on here parading we, the fans will have become same apologists as Arsenal fans who protected Wenger.

Personally I would be happy to have CL football but it is a minimum on what we should expect and barely a payback on what we have spent under Ole alone. It isn't something to be celebrating like a cup and I would be disappointed to see that reaction from Ole or the players. They would have achieved top four and I would feel underwhelmed to see an over celebration.

At least it makes the last day interesting and if we don't make it, Manchester United will come again.

1.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 10:29:42
no it will a step in the right direction, you don't go from the mess jose left to champions straight away .
Any fan with an ounce of sense understands that.

2.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 10:39:12
JRED- agree in most of what you say but would add that Van Gaal did not leave us with a title winning team in fact the whole team had to be reset from 1980's tactics and the most boring bloody football seen! add to that the underacheiving and geriatric players we had it was always going to take a good while as welll as money and good management to propel us to wherewe want to be as a club.

3.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 10:44:38
Will I be happy that we have qualified for the UCL, uhh yeah obviously. Will I celebrate it like it's a great achievement? No, having watched United win 13 league titles, 2 UCL titles, a Europa League title, 6 FA cups, 5 league cups and countless other smaller cups that don't really count my bar for success is a little higher than simply qualifying for the UCL.

Does that answer your loaded question?

4.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 11:03:38
Jred

I think it is funny that you go back yet again to the mess, as you put it. that Jose supposedly left. SAF left a mess, albeit a winning team, Moyes made us a laughing stock of a mess and LvG didn’t help, yet you happily ignore the mess Jose inherited and give him no kudos for two trophies and a runners up spot. Oh no your wonderful Ole has fixed it in your eyes. Then you mention from “a mess” to the idea of being Champions in the same sentence, imagining that to happen under Ole is amusing.

Top four would be good to have but we are so far behind City and Liverpool. The bonus would be being able to attract better players and hopefully a better manager.

5.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 11:05:20
Id be delighted to get a to top 4 position. I think that's inevitable now. I don't see it as cause for celebration more a case of relief but it will benifit the club in all sorts of ways.

6.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 11:13:19
Redman lvg and moses both left a mess, I think lvg possibly less so .
But I think what lvg and certainly moyes and fergy left is less relevant that the actually manager and team that ole took over from.
Certainly in the context above.

7.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 11:22:20
Shappy

You forgot the Cup Winners Cup, World Club Cup x 2, but not sure why you felt the need to list the triumphs you had seen unless it was to demonstrate your superiority, thinking it gave your point more weight.

I will be happy to get top 4 but I don’t think a top four finish justifies Ole’s position, as some will claim. A cup win on top might have and still might give the argument in his favour a fillip. The Europa league would be something to cheer, still when we won it under Jose I couldn’t scream like I did in 2008. See what happens in the Europa cup, but top four may make us more attractive to managers as well as players.

8.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 11:28:53
Ofcourse, progress must be appreciated.
But then, the following year, the bar must be raised.

We have fielded the youngest team in Premier League this year. Now it's all about backing the manager and adding quality to this squad.

Everyone knows we were left short in last Summer window. After the arrival of Bruno, the likes of Andreas and Lingard barely makes the bench.
That's the sort of impact signings I would like to see in the next transfer window.

9.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 11:39:46
Red Man, nothing to do with superiority, I'm fully aware that you have witnessed more success than I have being old enough to remember the success under Sir Matt.

I was listing the major successes I have witnessed to highlight just how stupid it would be for me to "celebrate" a top 4 finish. It demonstrates that clearly in comparison to what I've seen top four does not constitute success.

10.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 11:49:16
Sadly I started supporting in August 68 so never saw Sir Matts success, just decline to 1974. I just hope people don’t over celebrate getting top four, that is more my point.

11.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 11:49:53
Redman
So what would justify ole postion thus season?
When you look at the squd at the start of the season the injuries during the season etc what are your expectations for this season .
We coukd well finish 3rd did you expect us to finish above city and the scouse?

12.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 12:06:05
Red Man,

I know your OP was to get the reaction you got but why is there so much sniping on here now. You obviously won’t be happy with Ole until we win the treble, I think a top 4 finish this season would be good and I’d be very happy on Sunday if we are top 4, it is very good progress and in these uncertain times it is important we are in the CL so we can improve more.

Your OP is loaded as jred says as you are now making out that if any of us are happy on Sunday it means we are the ‘new Arsenal’, when really this is just where we are at the moment.

13.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 12:17:56
Why always the inflammatory language, Red Man? Why always trying to create two camps? Can you not put your argument across without all the childish nonsense? Surprised to see a grown man, of a certain vintage, argue in this way.

14.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 12:21:33
And if your last reply to Shappy, was 'more your point', why didn't you just say that to begin with, instead of all that silliness in the OP?

15.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 12:28:03
Jred

Ole could have justified his position by being above Chelsea and not needing to go into the last game of the season needing to avoid defeat to Leicester. I didn’t expect us to finish above 3rd, but I did expect a more coherent tactical approach and in game management befitting of a club expecting to challenge for honours. Ole needs to show he has that and yet has failed to show it time and again this season. My expectations were that given Chelsea had a transfer ban and a new manager, even with minimal experience, that we shouldn’t be in this position of uncertainty. I expected a Manager of United to stamp himself on the team far more, given the talent we had even at the start of the season, yet let Leicester get away. Only their fall has given us a chance, what does that say? The performance on Sunday was a disgrace, perpetrated by the tactics, team selection and in game management again. When you get to the semi, you don’t always win, but it was criminal not to compete. My expectations were to get top four solidly in a far more convincing way, plus to compete and possibly win a cup. City losing gave us a better chance if we got through but I didn’t expect that managerial mess on Sunday. It was actually embarrassing, I imagined a few of the senior people squirmed like we did at the horror show. SAF was ruthless, there are many managers out there who would have won that game for us and that is what bothers me.

People ignore that Ole has never demonstrated he can win the big prizes, bottling the Semi on Sunday does not give rise to the idea he is appropriate for the role, he must demonstrate that very soon or he won’t be there. I think he has to get to the Europa final at least, to justify his position now. We could finish 3rd but we could also finish 5th. Personally I think we will get what we need at Leicester, scraping into it is not enough.

16.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 12:33:04
So we could finish 3rd but that won't be good enough?

It really was only 1 game . Even fergy lost games.

17.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 12:41:53
Nou

We have had plenty of run ins from when you were Stevie.

“inflammatory language”? What? It’s an opinion and I don’t wish or try to create any camps, never have, unlike some. I say it how I see it, often like when I said what I thought about Moyes and was completely out on my own for months.

Right, referring to posts as “childish nonsense” or being told about being a grown man of a “certain vintage”, that sounds like an effort to belittle. If you have an opinion, express it but don’t try to tell people how to express their own opinion.

18.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 12:44:13
Jred

SAF did lose games, I don’t remember him, Atkinson, Sexton or the Doc getting it so wrong as Sunday. It isn’t one game though is it?

19.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 13:30:01
Redman - There was a time when many of us looked upon Arsenal's top 4 pursuit with contempt. To witness a once great and worthy adversary celebrating finishing 4th without a hint of improvement or ambition was both amusing and alarming in equal measure. To see a once great team cast aside by the new money available at Stamford Bridge and the Etihad content with pocketing the revenue but lacking the fight or ambition to strive for more is a fate I fear we are now accustomed.

I suppose the main difference is Arsenal's trajectory was downwards and hopefully Ole is slowly building a team on its way back but we must have faith in the project and understand that patience must prevail over panic. In Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Fernandes we have the attacking talent to compete with the best. At 25 Fernandes is the oldest of the quartet and it's my belief that these 4 players can propel us to glory if we remain patient and afford them time to develop and grow.

I completely understand your frustration, I accept your reservations on Ole and agree that we must not accept mediocrity or lose sight of what constitutes success.

If we can sneak top 4, recruit well in the summer then I think we have cause for optimism. You know as well as most that successful football teams are not built over night and I think if Ole had more experience and a better CV then maybe you might view his progress through different eyes.

{Ed047's Note - nice post as usual DLIB

20.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 13:52:22
Really good reply redman. Consider yourself lucky your not a protester out on the street. 😂 keep practising your right to free speech.

21.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 14:33:06
Redman
So if we finish 3rd that's not good enough?
Ok.

22.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 13:25:11
Its is one game and all them managers lost games and made mistakes.

23.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 15:15:47
The difference being, Red Man, I caught myself on, realised I was an adult, and apologised for my posts, especially to Danny. I could, and should, have made the same points without resorting to the language I used. You know what you're doing.

Take a look at DLIB's posts to see how you can put a point of view across without resorting to childish descriptions and metaphors.


If you dish it out the way you do, then you can't act all precious over harmless comments like 'a certain vintage'. I'm of a certain vintage too for flip sake, and used it about myself in a recent post! Bit desperate that.

Ken, he has posted what he wants, and will continue to post what he wants, so I don't think you're understanding the meaning of free speech. 😂.

24.) 21 Jul 2020
21 Jul 2020 17:24:38
Nou

DLIB is DLIB, I am sure he/ she writes good posts, however, if I disagree with him/ her I will make the argument about the points in a post, in the way I wish to. I won’t then tell him/ her or you what to write or how it should be written and I try not to be personal.
Let’s move on.