23 Jun 2020 09:46:16
Ed001, i rate your opinion very much so that's for you. I have a different opinion about De Geas "mistake". I maybe be wrong but i doubt it was his fault, maybe he should have done better, yes. But i think it was not a big mistake from him. When someone sees the shoot in real time i don't think he says it is an easy shoot and not dangerous. But even if you see it in slow motion you see its difficult . Most people are confused when the ball goes near the goalkeepers body and think that's easy, but the ball not going straight to De Gea in order to catch her, nor is going for example 0.5-1 meter from him body that allows him a clear reaction. I have seen this goal 15 times and it doesn't seems easy to me but i can't explain exactly the reason , maybe its the power and the angle. I would apreciate your reaction. Thanks as always

{Ed001's Note - it wasn't easy, no and it wasn't as big an error as is being suggested, but it was saveable. For a keeper in the top echelon, you are expected to save those. He didn't get it right, but he was rusty and it was the first game back, so I wouldn't be too harsh. All players were making simple errors as the lack of match practice showed badly.}

1.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 11:27:10
Dave gets a pass on this one not the others this season

AWB played Spurs On Side
Shaws header
Maguire was all over the place (1st game in 3 months)
Lindelof was out of position too.

So Dave should have been more alert but all things considered it was a team error.

I think the subs and selection could criticised and personally Williams on the overlap would have got more from Marcus. Also think starting Matic would have been a smart move.

2.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 12:14:34
I think it's more to the fact that he has now made a number of errors this season. Not so much the one against spurs but in his position at a club like United, consistent errors are unacceptable and I think he has to answer for them sooner rather than later.

3.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 13:37:33
I agree with the team error bit utd road but i don't see how either awb or lindelof were at fault for the goal. Shaw won a clean header with no interference, don't think the goal would have been ruled out had bergwin been offside. Lindelof was marking kane and awb was marking son, they couldn't have covered anyone without risking leaving 1 of the spurs best 2 players completely unmarked, not their fault the 80mn titanic didn't know how to react. Fred was far more at fault than either lindelof or awb, as he had opportunity to foul bergwin and stop the run, he didn't.

I think Maguire is already showing signs of being a poor signing, we are moving towards having actual quality in attack and midfield, which means we are also moving towards playing more up the pitch and less of defend deep and play on the counter. Maguire has neither the pace nor has he shown any defensive acumen that would make you believe he can adjust to that style. And his stupid 15-20 yard runs just so he can make a 5 yard pass to rashford or the lb are annoying, useless and risky.

4.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 14:11:47
CSM, I'm in two minds with Maguire. He wasn't my choice for CB and I felt he had a few flaws in his game, while his leadership credentials were in my opinion overstated.

All that said I feel he has been BETTER than I thought, he has shown strong leadership since he has joined, while personally I don't think the limitations in his game have been as exposed as I thought they would be.

Was he worth 80m? Absolutely not, but then I would argue that we as a club over pay on around 90% of our transfers, which is something we just have to accept as par of the course of being Manchester United. Personally I think around 55m would have been about right considering his ability, age and the fact he is English. But I don't get to dictate fees, they are what they are.

With a player of his size and mobility it will likely take a few more games than smaller more athletic players to return to full fitness and match sharpness. I'm not going to hold any mistakes made by players in the first 2-3 games against them, as no player is more than about 80% match fit at most.

DDG has made 4 mistakes this season leading to a goal, I'm not sure Maguire has made that many across this season, his first at our club.

I agree I don't think our defence is fully set yet, I don't think we've found the right balance. However, I don't think we can call Maguire a failure, last season we conceded 54 goals, so far this season we have conceded 31, including the 4 directly from DDG mistakes (last season we only conceded once from a DDG mistake) . So unless we concede 24 goals in the last 7 games then our defence will have improved from last season. While Maguire is a part of that.

5.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 14:55:30
Snappy i am not calling maguire a failure either, he's just showing signs that he is the linchpin signing ole was claiming him to be. We could easily bring in a someone like skriniar to replace him and not feel much difference.

I feel we have improved in defense because of improvementin lot of places, having awb rather than Ashley Young or darmian and maguire instead of Rojo or jones, shaw and lindelof too have improved especially lindelof. Also Awb basically shutting down 1 side has a lot to do with the defense looking good. If only 1 person is to get credit for improved defense i think most will agree it should be awb over maguire.

I agree with the whole leadership shtick being overrated, As a unit we are still rough, routinely playing opponents on side, failing to cover for the player next to you. He isn't exactly leading anything there.

6.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 15:08:52
It should be shappy, and he just isn't showing signs. Damned fat fingers.

7.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 15:15:09
I genuinely feel the addition of Wan Bissaka and Maguire have been huge improvements on Young and Smalling respectively.

Maguire can atleast pick a pass calmly.
Whereas Smalling bought choas with ball at his feet causing panic. Midfielders had to drop deep to collect passes from him.

We have kept 17 clean sheets this season across all competitions which I read is 2nd best in Europe.

Not bad with an entirely new backline isn't it?

8.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 16:01:14
You throw statistics with no point. So we must compare this season with last one to prove that we improved defensively. So why don't we compare this season with the 17-18 season in which we conceded 28 goals, one more than the best defence in the league City?

I think that's be more fair before in the season you refer to mr Mourinho created a toxic atmosphere always complaining about his useless defenders and we were going to fail. I am not saying that he was wrong, but he reaction was creating problems.

Of course back then at 17-18 we conceded 28 goals with 44 expected goals against, so that record was a combination of pour finishes from oposition attackers and the tremendous year De Gea had.

So we must to see the hole picture when we speak with statistics and this year having spend 150 millions in our defence i don't feel confident when they attack us. Did with Harry improved? Maybe. Are we good enough? Absolutely not this is the criterion. So no Harry is not good enough and is not a good transfer at all.

9.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 17:51:26
Herrera, the statistics I used was a simple one. Goals conceded over the course of the season. Is it a perfect statistics to use? No, but to give a general idea about how effectively the team is defending across a whole season goals conceded is a good starting point.

Last season we did very poorly, conceding 54. The year before that we did very well conceding only 28. This year so far we have conceded 31 which unless we concede a further 24 goals in the last 7 games then we will have improved.

Obviously how the team play, the tactics will play a part. For example when playing Jose's uber defensive park the bus tactics with more or less the same players as we had last season we conceded only 28 goals. It then all fell apart last season. This year playing far less defensively we are on course to concede not too many more than we did two seasons ago.

I understand you have a bad "feeling" every time our defence is put under pressure. Yet the fact is our goalkeeper is having one of his worst seasons with us and yet we still have the 4th best defensive record in the league. So the facts and figures are in direct contrast to your "feelings".

10.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 18:39:01
Sure we spent 150m and our defence is weaker now than under jose our attack is weaker too and we score less goals from open play under ole than we did under jose but we did have ibra in the 1st year which helped our goal scoring.
Jose had to be fired no doubt about that. Everything was going downhill fast.
Is ole doing some things right? I think so. Recruitment has been good as were most sales it appears to be a much happier camp with a better atmosphere.
Is he doing enough right? Not for me.
The EL is our best chance of qualifying for the CL. There is still a chance to get 4th but it will be difficult although by no means a lost cause. I hope the players adjust to the no fans at games quickly and that we can start creating more chances. Its been fairly boring to watch and very predictable this season, this being our worst epl season ever with goals scored from open play.

11.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 19:05:37
When jose was sacked we had conceded 30 goals in 17 games.
This year 31 conceded in 30.

Watch spurs against us negative boring park the bus footbsll . United played the same under jose dreadful to watch.

12.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 19:20:52
Agree its a poor watch yet yields more goals at spurs than ole has at united which is equally a poor watch too.

13.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 19:54:08
Ken the other night gave the perfect example of the brand of footy played under both managers .

Jose Park the bus footy is imo awful to watch and the game highlighted the difference .
As for it yielding more goals there 2 different teams with different players so i'm not sure what your point is .
However spurs have scored 48 goals this season 3 more than united . However 22 of them came in the first 13 games under poch .

14.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 21:52:01
The issue this year is Pogba being out injured most of the season. Had Pogba been fit then we would have certainly scored more goals. Jose had Pogba, Zlatan and Lukaku, Ole this season haven't had any of them.

15.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 22:05:13
So did we improved defensively from season 17-18? Because 17-18 and 18-19 we had the same defenders. Why all the comparison is about this season and not the season before? The season 18-19 was not "normal" with Zose compaining about everything and if you say that your defenders are useless then they will not play for you and they will not be flying. Saying that i don't care if a player improves as (Johny Evans will improve us too), i only care to be good enough for a title challenging team. So the only question is this one for Harry.

16.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 22:07:34
Ole is not park the bus that's for sure but its just disorganised and dysfunctional so as result mainly negative and risk adverse and has been an awful watch for a different set of reasons. Imo.

17.) 23 Jun 2020
23 Jun 2020 22:21:39
Pogba makes and scores goals no doubt but ole chose martial to lead the line ahead of lukaku. neither of them could get sanchez firing.
Im not debating that jose is negative and should have been fired i'm saying its been no better under ole in terms of results or effectiveness.
We don't score more or conceded less significantly. We are still miles off challenging and have lost ground to the winners.
The only positive is we now smile through our mediocrity instead of scowling through it.

18.) 24 Jun 2020
24 Jun 2020 08:14:02
Ken got to disagree.
All the signs are there of improvement if you actually analyse the game instead of just moaning we are 4th i want to win things .
You build a team it takes time and it develops .
Its not fifa.

19.) 24 Jun 2020
24 Jun 2020 11:10:49
What game jred?
What key metrics are improving?
What is our brand of football you speak of?
Ive never played or seen fifa.
What improvements are we making?
We are not 4th are you missing something.
Im not moaning i'm analysing our current plight.
We are not improving we are no more effective that we were a year ago and a lot less effective than 2 years ago. You choose to ignore those facts.

20.) 24 Jun 2020
24 Jun 2020 12:22:23
Your not analysing ken you never do, you comment on our position but never really analysing thd footbsll.

There are a million factors as to why us or any team are in the position they are . You can only see the position, nothing else .
Its why you only judge a player on what they have won.
We have had this discussion before there are a lot of very good players not win much and vice versa .
Saying we are 5th isn't analysing anything.

21.) 24 Jun 2020
24 Jun 2020 12:44:51
So answer my questions based on your analysis.

22.) 24 Jun 2020
24 Jun 2020 12:46:49
Its a result business not a opinion business.
My analysis says we are no more effective than a year ago and less effective than 2 years ago.

23.) 24 Jun 2020
24 Jun 2020 14:09:22
Ken your just pointing out numbers .
Its not fifa u don't build a team over night.
Belive me ole and the coaching squad won't care less what happened 2 year ago. With a different manager a different squad, different opposition, different circumstances.
Its pathetic and irrelevant,
You have said many times your only interesting in winning and that's fine, that's why some fans follow a team, buts it clear that's all you look for and until we win something you will just moan . But its a journey to get there .
You argued yesterday we nedd s WC cb to improve our defence and win something. But again that's just the fifa generation, you defend as a team, by controlling the game .
1.Teams win the league and Cl with worse players than lindelof in there back 4 .
2. Our defending as a team has vastly improved since we signed bruno. There is a reason why .

But its just 1 moan, 1 over simplyed issue after another .
Each to there own tho and people use the site for dofferent things. But I have no real interest in discussing it with yourself .

24.) 24 Jun 2020
24 Jun 2020 16:38:23
Jred. You really are a silly Billy. When or where did i say we need a wc cb to win something.

25.) 24 Jun 2020
24 Jun 2020 17:01:32
Ken have a full read of the thread from yesterday.