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29 Apr 2023 19:02:00
Any news on the takeover Ed's?
{Ed002's Note - I am not sure if the offer from Jim will suit the family and I am doubtful that he would continue unless changes were made to suit him. I am also doubtful if there is a good enough offer from elsewhere at this time. We will see what happens later in the week.}
1.) 29 Apr 2023 21:22:08
BBC reporting Jim Ratcliffe's offer valued the club higher than the Qatari bid.
2.) 29 Apr 2023 21:27:47
Imagine turning down 5bn for something you bought with very little of your own money, you don’t invest in, you don’t care about or have interest in and that you don’t have the finances to maintain and look after…if they do then it tells us all we need to know about the glazers, they are something else for sure…. and not in a good way.
3.) 29 Apr 2023 22:38:10
Without wishing to be negative, we can assume the following if the Glazers remain charge:
1. Servicing the huge debts will continue to divert money away from the club
2. The Glazers won’t put any of their own money into the club, so the credit/ debt will continue to grow
3. I can’t see then investing in any of the infrastructure
4. Given their misguided pursuit of greed - and la k if understanding about how to run a football club - the club will inevitably decline
5. Not to mention to inference and micro management from Joel and Abram in Florida constipating agile decision making
Just hope so much that this week will see a change in ownership. If not, the club has a very bleak future - all because of the greed of the Glazers who think Inited will continue to be the cash cow that keeps on giving.
4.) 30 Apr 2023 03:43:43
It's estimated that failure to qualify for the ECL will cost Liverpool £50m or so next year. What's an income stream of £50m worth to an investor? Is it any wonder that the Glazers were committed to the quasi- franchise system Super League with its guaranteed participation and revenues.
I have not yet read a single article or talked to a single friend or acquaintance, some of whom have been extremely successful and are very wealthy, who thinks that United is worth anywhere near £5bn on a financial stand alone basis. The downside risk far outweighs the potential upside gain.
Because they're greedy it's hard to see them turning down £5bn. Even with the additional revenues from ECL qualification the financial return on that amount of money is pretty poor. If they do then maybe they're not as good businessmen as they think they are, but then it's often the case that the kids are nowhere near as clever as daddy. And, after putting potential buyers through this process, and then failing to sell, it's going to leave a sour taste and deter future potential buyers.
5.) 30 Apr 2023 06:40:04
You may not think that United is worth £5bn, but the Glazers bought this club some 20 years ago, only investing £250m of their own money.
They now stand to make between £4.5-£5bn from the deal. Maybe that is the true value of United to these people, not the commerical revenue generated but the long-term resale value.
6.) 30 Apr 2023 16:08:18
Grim
Please confirm where the Glazers invested any money.
7.) 30 Apr 2023 16:47:19
Once you start hitting these numbers the potential upside capital gain over time, adjusted for inflation over the long term, is potentially minimal, especially when in addition to the purchase price the club is in need of a further £1-2bn investment.
Of course, what something's worth is what someone will pay for it, but as I said, there's a load of people much smarter and more successful than me, who are finding it difficult to see how the numbers add up on purely financial metrics.
Can you find any articles or analyses that suggest otherwise? What we're looking at here is a premium paid to own scarcity, like a rare painting ($200m for a Jackson Pollock? ) There's only one United. at least for the time being.
8.) 30 Apr 2023 17:02:21
the club will get sold. The glazers in america are recognized as the worst owners of a sports franchise until recently when the jets guy got dumped. the kids are hopeless and it was their dad who was very shrewd no matter how nice the current bunch are in real life.
9.) 30 Apr 2023 17:29:13
Red, they didn't invest any money in the club, just put up £250m of their own money to purchase the club, with the rest leveraged. Not a bad return on that £250m if they end up with £5bn.
To use Shaw's Pollock analogy, his No.31 Drip painting sold in 1988 for $3.5m, in 2020 it sold for $47m. United like art, if you get the right piece, is an inflation busting investment.
10.) 30 Apr 2023 18:44:10
Did they put up $250m of their own money though Grim?
I thought they put up money generated from issuing PIK loans, and they only repaid those loans after issuing shares later. So in effect, put up none of their own funds?
11.) 30 Apr 2023 20:01:46
I'm putting all thoughts of the sale as far from my mind as possible.
No point torturing myself with the daily "blow by blow" made up rumours that are being milled around.
Only a few people truly know what is happening and none of them work in or divulge sensitive information to the media. At best we might get the PR spin doctors media briefing designed to try and pressurise the potential bidders to drive up the price.
Nothing more. For the press it's a free hit, just churn out garbage as it's got our name attached and it will sell papers and get clicks. It doesn't matter if it's made up as no one will hold them accountable in a couple of months time when it all becomes clear.
As such I'm being willfully ignorant of the whole process. I'll wait to see what happens before I judge anyone or form an opinion.
All I know is that I want the Glazers out as they clearly cannot take us forward. Who takes over and how I'm not concerned as long as they are competent, have a plan and aim to get us back challenging again.
12.) 30 Apr 2023 20:34:16
Malcolm Glazer put in around £240Mill and then split the debt between bank loans of £265Mill and PIK loans from Hedge Funds of £275 Mill. The debt when they took over was in the region of £550 million of the £790 mill price.
These figures were widely reported at the time with slight variations on the numbers but roughly in the proportions spoken of. Whilst theydid put in money one must also remember that a lot more has been taken out by the family in interest payments throughout the ownership and dividends since 2016.
I don't like the Glazers as owners but i try and stick as much as possibke to what's known. We don't need to put a spin on it to show how bad they are.
13.) 01 May 2023 06:53:50
Shap, doesn't SJR's ownership of Nice concern you. It hasn't been exactly a raging success. I remember he said Ineos bought the likes of Nice and Lausanne to learn how to run a football club.
Perhaps they need a few more years before taking on the likes of United where the pressure and expectation is beyond anything they have experienced before.
14.) 01 May 2023 08:27:30
Todd Boehly takeover of Chelsea is an example of what happens if not done properly.
15.) 01 May 2023 08:55:47
Not particularly Grim, like you say SJR actually has some experience of running a football club, which is more than most bidder's. If he takes over the club hopefully he can take the lessons he's learned at Nice and Lausanne and apply them when running our club.
Truth be told none of us know the ins and outs of what has happened at those clubs, the whys and how's or the context of their situations.
We have no control over who owns our club, who buys it, or how they run it. So I waste little time getting hot under the collar over rumoured situations.
You should only ever worry about the things under your control, for everything else there is nothing you can do about so why stress over it.
16.) 01 May 2023 09:49:50
I am looking forward to the announcement that there will be a fourth round of bidding with a dealine of the end of May.
17.) 01 May 2023 12:03:28
Where nobody bids and the glazers say well they tried to sell.
18.) 01 May 2023 12:27:26
Oak bark
That is not what I have seen. The PIK loans were the portion NOT secured against man utd, but against their business Red Football. Later thise loans were repaid by bond issues and share issues. If what I have read is wrong then so be it, but I am certainly not making stuff up to make them look bad. As you say, they do a good enough job of that themselves.
19.) 02 May 2023 07:45:56
PIK loans were not secured against the club nor repaid by the club nor did the money go into the club. Don’t make it sound like generous old Malcolm put money in the club. I recall from memory only the PIKs were on Red Football, a vessel the leeches opened in the US and were paid off in circa 2010 by means unclear but not directly by the club. However I also seem to recall the Glazers managed to obtain agreement to use up to £70m I think it was to pay towards them yet I don’t think they did. About a year after the PIK I believe we floated shares that gave the leeches a load of money, not a cent went into the club. Glazers have not put a cent into Manchester United. Great businessmen about to make themselves billions from the work of Sirs Matt and Alex having run the club down for all these years to enable dividends. Disgusting what they have done.
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21 Jun 2019 11:28:02
Is there actual interest, i'd presume he'd cost 70m+ in this this market.
31 May 2018 22:24:56
Doubt he’d have to scout him. He knows him from inter and they didn’t get on.
Haha bitter? This just makes me laugh, I can't believe this site every time a player is linked, they are suddenly the best player to walk the earth, he's a decent player but have a bit of cop on. he's not going to be groundbreaking by any means. And why didn't u mention man city or chelsea in that?
Nonsense, I can't even believe people are saying he's such an amazing player, Ramsey is better, wilshire is better, fabregas is better, hazard is better (he plays the no.10 role aswell) fernandinho is better, vidal and pogba aren't even in the equation as they go without saying, jordan henderson is just as good! He hasn't even got a game for the spanish side and he's 24!
Top 4 in his position! Are you crazy?
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