Manchester United banter 82008

 

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03 Apr 2019 09:31:21
This really is quite pathetic, sad even. I know not everyone had Ole as their first choice but to start berating him 5 days into him getting the job on a full time basis is pathetic. What did you expect?

The problems at our club are numerous and that is something we all agree on.

Everyone see's Ed Woodward as probably the biggest problem at the club, his poor handling and over inflated ego is damaging everything he touches, which unfortunately is almost everything. No manager can change this, and until we get a Director of Football or a Technical Director that will not change. In fact, even then it is unlikely to change as I fully expect Ed Woodward to still have the final say on nearly all matters.

The players still lack that heart and desire that all great United teams have had. Is that a modern footballer problem? Are they all over paid and under educated leading to inflated egos? If so then how do we and other clubs combat that moving forward? Personally I don't see that has a problem for every footballer, but we do have too many in our squad who clearly think a little too highly of themselves.
As has been pointed out, changing the manager is only a short term solution when the problem is the players. As yet the club and the manager haven't had a real opportunity to ship out "problem" players. Nor has there been a real chance to bring in the right sort of players. Ergo the problems we have had under previous managers will still be prevalent under our current manager.

As for yesterday's game, the over reaction is quite frankly ridiculous. Firstly, Wolves are a very good side with an excellent manager (definately the best manager outside the top six and arguably better than some managers at top six clubs, in fact currently I would say only Klopp and Pep are performing better than Nuno) . Then when we look at the game, we battered them for the first 20 minutes and could have been 3-0 up game finished. Unfortunately we didn't score enough goals during that spell. We then gave away a stupid goal from what is typical defensive errors from these players. Our confidence wobbled while Wolves gained a boost. Then the second half was ruined for us when Young got sent off for a stupid challenge. Then top that off with Smalling and surprisingly DDG combining to gift Wolves the winning goal and it was a comedy of errors for which no manager can prepare or plan for.

It's not Ole's fault that the defensive options available to him are poor and error prone. So let's not hang him for the mistakes of his predecessors.

Now is Ole the perfect manager? No, but as I have said previously who is? Which manager offers:
1, attacking and entertaining football
2, winning titles and cups
3, promoting and developing youth
4, understanding and appreciation for the clubs history and traditions

If you disagree then name a manager who offers all of this. If not then whoever we hire will potentially be lacking in at least one of these areas. My point is we can always find a suitable stick to beat a manager with, but to what end? What do we gain from slating a manager and ultimately pushing them towards the exit door. We did it with Moyes, we did it with LvG and we did it with Mourinho. What benefit has it brought the club?

Most of our problems stem from higher up than the manager, so now we have a manager who truly gets the club, a manger who cares about the club. Sure he has his short comings, but now we have a manager who we should all unite behind because he is one of us. If we are to try and force changes at the club we need to be criticising the people who are making the real errors which are costing us. The people making the poor signings, the people giving out huge contracts to substandard players and the people allowing our best players to leave on a free due to them being allowed to run their contracts down. None of these errors are the fault of our manager.

We NEED to back this manager, as if we can't back one of our own we will never be United again.

{Ed004's Note - Fantastic post. Completely agree. There is no point berating the manager until he has time to make a few signings. The amount of average players in the squad is staggering. Young, Jones, Bailly, Rojo, Smalling, Fred, Perreria, McTominay, Mata, Lingard etc. No manager in world football would have a side winning the league with that group of players playing regularly yet Ole has us playing at league winning form since he took over. Currently, only De Gea, Lindelof, Shaw, Pogba (before his dip), Rashford and maybe Martial/Lukaku are good enough for our first choice eleven. This summer is massive for our transition, but it feels like we are saying this every summer and Woodward hasnt lived up to it. We probably need 5 first team signings if we want to compete next season}

Agree8 Disagree1

03 Apr 2019 10:03:36
Couldn’t agree more shappy. How come us we mortals the fans can see what is going on but billionaire owners haven’t got a scooby. Most of these players are not Utd standard never have been and never will. For me this coming season is absolutely massive for us, get it wrong again and it could be another 5 years in the wilderness.

03 Apr 2019 10:06:19
Agree Shappy/ ed004
Dont think DDG is on his game at the moment as well. Could be lack of confidence in those in front of him contract rumours or both but he ain't the super keeper of late that he has. Hope its a temp blip . Pogba was poor last nite but still take nothing away from wolves- he has a close talented group working their socks off and to be fair playing very attractive football at times.

{Ed004's Note - Except Liverpool have any top side went there and won this season. They beat Spurs 3-1 in Wembley too if my memory serves me correctly. They are a very strong side}

03 Apr 2019 10:07:59
Until the people at the top and the manager are all singing from the same hymn sheet with regards to signings and the direction of the club I fear this is going to be the case for quite a few more summers yet.

03 Apr 2019 10:14:26
We shpuldve backed Mourinho but we didn't who is to say Ole will be backed.

We are not winning anything until we get rid of half the team who are just not good enough to be in a title winning team.

We have been soft for a number of years and we need to harden up and make some tough decisions.

03 Apr 2019 10:14:28
Shappy while I agree with you, you are letting ole off the hook too easily. Yesterday's loss wasn't totally his fault but he is responsible for recent results.
Dropping mctominay especially when was doing well while giving matic a long run before dumping him, prematurely playing lingard which extended his injury period, these are his decisions that have hurt us. Young has been nothing but rubbish this season, yet he continues to keep his place. Fred's first touch rivals lukaku's and still ole in his wisdom decided to play him as the deepest of the midfield 3. Sure we were great for 20 mins yesterday but couldn't score, against Watford it was exact opposite where we were poor but somehow took the only chance that came our way first half, we can't have it both ways. It's now 3 losses in 4 with Barcelona next, city and Chelsea still to come. Honeymoon period is well and truly over for him and he now needs to show that he can manage the team without having the thank god we got rid of the other guy environment helping him.

03 Apr 2019 10:18:21
We have arguably only one world class player in ddg who this season has not been the player we all know.

We don't have a consistent team playing every week because the players can't perform to a standard every week.

We have 0 leaders. No one organises and I don't ever see anyone having a go. It's all nice.

Gone are the days of a keano when needed would give you a kick up the arse.

Ole has done a miracle even getting us back in contention of a top 4 place. and regardless of what kind of manager people think he is he 100000000p percent deserved to get the job.

We are bang average in defence. Bang average in the centre. attack is the only area we don't need to work on getting players in although we are not as clinical I think with time they can be


You can not expect to win games with the likes of young smalling and Jones playing in defence . lindoff has improved and still has a long way to go

We paid 90 million for a player who I haven't seen perform for weeks

When he turns up we are a different team but we can't just rely on pogba other players have to step up

Although now it looks like 4th is realistically not going to be for us this season. other teams might slip up.


We make to many . mistakes and against decent sides its pubished and you lose.


The players need to step up we've Barcelona next and perform like the past 5 weeks and we are in deep trouble it could be an embarrassment of a result.


Ole at the wheel.

03 Apr 2019 10:54:30
One of the best post Shappy.
Some of the posts from our fans are just disgraceful.

csm, we do not have adequate quality players to rotate right now. Mctominay played a flurry of games when Matic was injured. So may be he was rested and Matic was being slowly integrated.

If we play the pressing game throughout, then almost the entire squad will be out injured. They are not yet ready to cope up with this style.
So the real work starts this summer, then next to the pre-season.
We have to take it step by step.
Expecting everything to happen too soon is just not practical.

{Ed004's Note - When we pressed the first 20 minutes we looked a completely different team. However, I dont think currerntly this squad can maintain that for 90 mins}

03 Apr 2019 12:33:19
agree ed. we started great. high intensity, playing fast but its not just the fact we look tired in games its the silly mistakes.

why can't we pass a ball 5 yards, mistakes are costing us goals.

every time we make a mistake the other team scores.

{Ed004's Note - Thats why Im willing to write off the rest of the season for Ole. He has done a remarkable job so far and hopefully in the summer we sign players who are capable of playing the pressing game. A lot of our players arent bad squad players such as Lingard, Smalling, McTominay etc but they should not be regulars}

03 Apr 2019 13:09:26
Good post Shappy I agree a lot of people have overreacted but I think it's just disappointment talking more than anything.

My only slight criticism of Ole is that he's started tinkering with the team and formation too much and he's now stating to set up our team according to the opposition rather than imposing our own style on them. Yes injuries have played a part but it just seems to me that he no longer knows his best team or formation.

I think he needs to insert his own authority and style on the team so we can see those capable of adapting and those that can't. We always look better when we play with energy and intensity and Ole must demand this from everyone.

This worries me slightly as without a clear idea or understanding of how he's wants us to play it becomes difficult to identify areas of the team that need improving and to ensure that we strengthen in the correct areas during the summer.

Having said that bad individual mistakes have cost us against Arsenal and Wolves and there is not much the manager can do about that.

Ole's overall record is good, bumps in the road were inevitable it just hurts more when we think we're making progress and we come crashing back down to earth. Deep down we all know there is work to be done. Can Ole deliver who knows but he deserves his chance and more patience from all of us.

Yesterday was a big setback but we've got Barcelona next week. There's no point in feeling sorry for ourselves and what an opportunity to bounce straight back.

03 Apr 2019 13:17:40
Exactly Ed, our players need time to adapt to this style.
The future recruits also must also be targeted to suit the high intensity pressing game.

{Ed004's Note - Priority is probably a right winger so we dont expect Martial to do all the work}

03 Apr 2019 10:14:24
Completely agree on Ole Shappy. Loads of people have been asking for a good young hungry manager (e. g. howe or nagelsmann) who can play the united way and develop with the club rather than going out for establish mangers who don't fit our style. Ole fits the need completely and what's more, he adores the club and that can't be bought. The problem is we are not poised to give him the support or structure he needs to develop this team and as a coach. Our squad reminds me of Newcastle before the got relegated a few years ago ( not saying we are that bad), but Newcastle had the 5th highest wage bill in the EPL that season and none of the players could be bothered. People baulked at Lingard's contract but Martial is on £250k and he does not get a regular look in the French squad! i fear we have become a club where players come for the money and agents flog their players for the commission we are stupid enough to pay. It also makes it harder to sell players on.
The problem will only be resolved with a DoF who is allowed to work independently to sort out the player power, wages and build a sqaud capable of playing the football we want to see. If Ed Woodward thinks he can do it all, he is deluded.
I would rather revise our wage structure, get a strong DoF, establish a style of play and build from there. Even if it means fighting for top 4 for a couple of seasons.

A question for Ed 02 if he is around. I have read you mention often that clubs have advisors who help them - are United using any? I find it hard to imagine Ed W adn the board thinking they know it all.

{Ed002's Note - Louis van Gaal added Marcel Bout to the staff for that purpose, experienced, knowledgable and trusted by LvG. Mr Mourinho took third-party advice over players last summer but given the lack of support from the club it was pointless in the end. Given that a number of the targets the club now has were those same players identified by Mr Mourinho and some as a result of advice, it does make the club look rather stupid.}

03 Apr 2019 13:27:47
Grest post Shappy.

It has been disappointing that we lost the last 3 games, but except for the game against Wolves in the FA cup, I think our performances in the league against both Arsenal and Wolves was pretty good - if not for some bad defending and individual mistakes. In fact if we had taken our chances that we created, it would had been a different situation.

And Shappy I totally agree with your centiments and loved what you said at the end "We NEED to back this manager, as if we can't back one of our own we will never be United again. "

03 Apr 2019 13:44:08
ed004 totally agree wolves are a good side as my post said and our last 2 losses have been against good teams: the performances from certain players wasnt what we have come to expect. Further on your comment re ole the rest of the season; agree in part but the players available should be continuing the previous hard graft to get top 4. Note hard graft not skill, as doing the "dirty" work chasing down etc is what sets you up for results.

03 Apr 2019 13:52:46
Thanks Ed 02. Agree that it makes the club look silly. its the equivalent of telling the manager "i will hire you and extend your contract but won't buy you the players that i agree are the right ones to buy! " No wonder mourinho was fed up. Bigger issue it without a DoF, it won't change anytime soon.

{Ed002's Note - There will be someone in that role soon.}

03 Apr 2019 14:21:26
Ed002 since you mentioned there’ll be a DOF soon do you foresee the person (if you have an idea who he is) will be good in decision making and improve Man Utd? I know it’s a question you may not want to answer but if you could I’d appreciate. Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - I have dealt with all of this over recent months and particularly in the past week or so when the name came up. It is a person who most of the fans have never heard of - so he will get trashed like everyone else at the club.}

03 Apr 2019 14:25:35
Thanks for the super fast response.
Gosh what are we becoming to? Hope not toxic! 😭
Sorry for the already asked be question.

03 Apr 2019 14:28:20
One of your best, Shaps. So good, I even read this one right through to the end :)

03 Apr 2019 14:31:46
To all the know it alls, just one question to all of you since you are placing all the fault at the players' doors.

Why on earth did we sack Jose when it was the players who were guilty all this time?

03 Apr 2019 15:19:40
UA, there is a lot more to why Jose was sacked. Yes, the players are not upto the mark and everyone knows that for sometime now, but when Ole can bring in positive results with the same set of players and an experienced manager like Jose couldn't, given the time he had - says a lot about how Jose has regressed as a manager.

03 Apr 2019 15:19:47
José had two and a half seasons to build his team and get the best out of the players at his disposal, and we were no further forward at the end of his tenure than at the start. He also helped create a toxic atmosphere around the club. That's why he was sacked. Ole's had a few months to get the best out of the same players, and until recently was doing so. A few bad results later, and it's knives out. If we're still struggling after 2 and a half years of Ole, then it would be fair to think about a change, but a few results into his reign? No-one calls for a managers head after a few games, not even Utd fans. Or so I thought.

03 Apr 2019 20:20:56
Nou

Not sure anyone has called for Oles head? Not me anyway.

The questions are against Woodward and the strategy of the club including the decision process around Oles appointment plus how player purchasing decisions are made. I actually agreed with Craig Burley, it seems a rushed emotional decision rather than a clear strategic club plan when appointing Ole.

03 Apr 2019 20:45:13
Or you could say his record since he stood in, warranted him being picked. I think it could have waited til the summer personally, but I understand the need to plan for pre-season and summer transfers. Read some of the posts or the live chat from last night. Embarrassing reactions to a loss with ten men, against a Wolves side who have got results against all the big clubs. A few poor results and the knives are out already.







 

 

 
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