Manchester United banter 81725

 

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21 Feb 2019 16:18:49
There's a question I want to pose to everyone on the site.

Now the perceived idea is that it is harder to manage a top club than a club lower down the football pyramid. The basis for this idea is the pressure and expectations are higher.

But is that true? Is it really harder to get better quality players with better facilities and more resources to play better?

Is there less pressure in avoiding relegation on a shoe string? Or trying to clamber to the top of a lower league to gain promotion to the elite level?

Ole struggled to get the Cardiff players to play the kind of football he wanted them. Was it just that the style he was trying to get them to play was beyond their capabilities? Yet at United he has made managing our club look fairly simple and straightforward.

I would have thought that the reality is that if you can't get some of the best players in the world, with world class facilities and huge amounts of resources to play well then you are a poor manager. Whereas, if you can get a side of average players to improve and play beyond their capabilities with limited resources and poor facilities then you are a great manager.

Surely then you can only prove that at a club without world class players and facilities.

Is it not easier to succeed at a club that has everything required to give you the best platform for success?

Agree8 Disagree1

21 Feb 2019 16:36:00
Are you making the point that Ole isn't a good manager because he struggled in his first job with a relegation battling team of average players and an idiot chairman?

Can twist that argument on its head and say certain managers aren't that good because they've only ever managed clubs that that has everything required to give you the best platform for success?

21 Feb 2019 16:55:38
Mort, I'm not saying Ole is a bad manager. I think he is a good manager. What I'm trying to ask is can it be easier to succeed at a top club than a club at a lower level?

Absolutely you can look at some managers and ask would they have been as successful if they were at clubs without the facilities, resources and abundance of world class talent. Most will look at Pep who is arguably the best manager in the world at the moment. But on a serious note could he save Fulham from relegation? Would his style, his philosophy transfer to those players? How much could be improve those players? Could he get them playing like his Barcelona or City team without the likes of Messi, Xavi, Silva and Delete Bruyne?

21 Feb 2019 17:24:19
It's a tricky question to answer shappy . Raffa at Newcastle is probs currently the best example of a high profile manager with previous success but is now at a club near the bottom that duznt spend much . It's difficult to judge him, he keeps them up and had a good final league position last season but constantly seems to be in a relegation battle, would Newcastle be relegated without him or would all the firefighting managers big Sam, Hughes ect manage the same thing .

21 Feb 2019 17:58:12
I think it’s easier to manage at the top level. You have money and you know everything about all the top players but in the lower leagues you know virtually nothing about the players.

21 Feb 2019 18:01:25
Ranieri couldn't do it with unlimited funds at Chelsea but won the league with Leicester.
I don't think there is an answer to your question that's factual most answers are and will be totally subjective.
Howe does ok at bournmouth but would he do well at a big club.
A lit depends on timing luck and momentum.

21 Feb 2019 19:47:55
Ranieri couldn't do it with unlimited funds at Chelsea? He had one season with Abramovich as owner and was sacked with the club finishing in 2nd place.

21 Feb 2019 19:53:52
Interesting question Shappy and very hard to answer.

If we're taking about Solskjear I think all the pieces of the jigsaw have fallen into place for him at Old Trafford. I agree with Ken sometimes timing and momentum is as important as anything else.

I think a large number of this current squad suit Solskjear's style like a hand in a glove.

He has the perfect attacking players to implement his system and in Pogba he has the mercurial figurehead capable of knitting it all together and providing the quality needed to win at the highest level.

I'm not sure Solskjear has the longevity and foresight to build team after team but I think he's more than capable of taking this current group of players forward.

He will look to build around De Gea, Lindelof, Shaw, Martial, Pogba, Lingard and Rashford. With a few quality additions who have the pace, energy and movement to complement his style of fast countering attacking football I think he is more than capable of winning trophies over the next few years.

21 Feb 2019 22:43:12
The alternative view is that Ole has built up years of experience managing our reserves, then going to Molde, then taking on a tough job like Cardiff (which Sit Alex told
Him not to) where he will have learned some tough lessons, then going back to Molde, then being given the Utd job where there is little to no pressure or expectation and a kind fixture list. It’s not like we have a new novice manager in charge here. All prior to this he was a legend for our club and knows exactly how it should be run.

21 Feb 2019 23:39:10
English football has a habit of writing managers off after one sacking. In any other business in the world, failure is all apart of learning. In Spain they often give their B team managers the first team job. They have no qualms about giving a manager lower down the league a top job, like Barcelona will do with Real Betis' manager at the end of the season.

English teams tend to blink very quickly when giving a manager a chance and then appoint the trusty Alerdyce, Pardew, Hodgson or Hughes or any other "firefighter" manager.

But in terms of what level should a potential manager take in my opinion should be based on what level they've played. Obviously there are the exceptions to this rule but learning your trade in League 2 isn't going to make you a better premier league manager and vice versa.

Ole has played most of his career at the top of world football competing for the top honours. He's worked with the best manager and players around at the time. He knows what it's like to be at a big club. Put him in charge of Cardiff who are struggling is alien to him. He said it himself he wanted them to play the kind of football that they technically couldn't, so he reverted to a more defensive style and it all went pear shaped.

Just look what a step up done to David Moyes. He done and said all the wrong things. He said he wanted to be like City in one of his interviews. The man just wasn't made for top level football. Again, it was alien to him.

Roy Keane is another example of how a world class player can't manage in the lower leagues. His expectations are too high and result in him falling out with players that can't play to his high standard. If Keane had of started at the top I would be very interested to see how he would have got on.

Ole seems to be bread for the top bracket of management. He says and does all the right things but there are also many other managers who given a top job would do just fine too.

21 Feb 2019 23:44:08
I think it depends on the managers background. If as a player he only played at a high level as a player then becomes a manager and goes to a lower league where he's not used to the standard of players, facilities etc then he may struggle. Take Roy Keane at Ipswich as an example. However if you have a manager who was a player at that level then he's more used to the standard. For example Eddie Howe at Bournemouth.

Regards Pep no I think he'd struggle at a Fulham.

22 Feb 2019 02:16:07
I think there are different levels of expectation and different pressures. For example, in Scotland the Old Firm carries more pressure than any other job in the country (possibly in Europe) . A manager at the top level is expected to win every game and in England has literally tens of millions of people analysing their every decision. Moreover, if you manage Cardiff you are expected to beat the teams around you at home. When you are the boss of Man Utd you are expected to beat everyone and win 90% of the games in style.

In summary, being a manager is bloody difficult and whilst having players like Pogba helps, the pressure of 100million fans expecting you to win every week must be gruelling.

22 Feb 2019 03:05:19
Based on people’s comments on a very complex situation with far too many variables. it will be interesting to see how Scholes fares at Oldham.

22 Feb 2019 05:21:58
Most of the managers needs some type of their players to get the club moving forward. Pep struggled in his first season and bought some players which suited his philosophy. What if he was in Arsenal with limited budget. I don't think so he would have made Arsenal like current City. Very few will tweek thier tactics suiting the players they have. Maybe Ole has tools now in United to get good results.

22 Feb 2019 10:10:24
Somebody may have said it but management style could be a big factor.

My opinion a manager that builds from the back with a lower team will struggle to get relegated (allardyce)
Whereas if a attacking coach came in they may struggle (ole at Cardiff)

And then the exact opposite for a top side, as top sides have the players to attack and score and sometimes worry about the base last.

22 Feb 2019 15:32:07
I think it also depends on what characters you have in the club, we’ve seen first hand how players down tools if they don’t like something. Look how our players performed first half of the season to now for example. Or how Chelsea players have multiple times. There’s too many factors for a straight answer to that question imo.







 

 

 
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