21 Feb 2019 12:18:12
Just a little follow up from yesterdays debate on Pogba. I don't necessarily want him sold, if he can maintain his current form sell such a player would look bad.
My issue is IF he wants to leave then it is in the clubs best interest to try and move him on, as he has shown previously that his form significantly drops when he is unhappy and he can be a disruptive influence.
We should also consider that his best form has come under Ole and in the system deployed by Ole. However, at the present time there are no guarantees that Ole will be here next season or that whoever is here will play a similar system/ tactics to what Ole does.
The current favourite is Pochettino who has never given a player a free role in any of his teams and demands hard work off the ball for his system to work. That system might not be suited to getting the best out of Pogba. Pochettino would need to inspire a kind of defensive work rate from Pogba that he as yet hasn't shown for any manager playing for any team.
If Pogba wants to stay and he is going to be committed and if Ole is going to get the job full time then obviously it makes sense to keep Pogba. However, if he doesn't want to be here or if the next manager is going to change the current system then it might be best to cash in on him and give him the move that he apparently wants.
21 Feb 2019 12:36:14
If the player wishes to leave then I certainly wouldn't stand in his way. The only problem is, can we get a fair price for him. In a transfer market where average players like Coutinho go for silly money and players that haven't achieved anything like SMS and Ruben Neves are quoted around £100 million. We can't roll over and have our tummies tickled.
We've historically been really poor when selling our players. If Pogba goes, then we have to get the right deal for United.
21 Feb 2019 12:44:51
Is this all him posturing for a pay rise? Ronaldo, Ramos and so on used to do this every summer. With De Gea, Rasher and other contracts being bandied about he just fancies a few more quid too?
{Ed002's Note - No.}
21 Feb 2019 14:09:08
Exactly Mumbles. We have on far too many occasions come off worst when selling players. Unfortunately I think we will be lucky to get our money back as realistically there are only a few clubs who could sign him, even fewer who can afford the wages/ agents fee it will cost and fewer again who actually have a need for a player like him.
So we have very little wiggle room and would certainly find it hard to start a bidding war.
That said with his current form his value surely must be as high as possible, especially when considering he was a world cup winner as little as 8 months ago.
If and I say if he still wants to push to leave then now surely must be the best moment to maximise our return. If we force him to stay and that affects his form then his asset value will only drop during next season.
Personally I would stay as far away from Mino Riola's clients as possible. They have a habit of becoming "unhappy" every couple of years.
21 Feb 2019 15:39:19
If Pogba wants to leave this summer then we must get rid of him.
He is playing well now and won the World Cup last summer and so his stock will be high.
Only a few clubs can afford the transfer fees and wages but we could sort this out with players plus cash being included in the deal. Trading with Barcelona, Madrid, PSG or Juve in this manner could be acceptable to all parties.
With the number of assists and goals he is scoring his stock will be high.
We just need Ed and whoever is the permanent manager to dig in on any deal until the end.
This is why we need a DoF as he can deal with these situations and thus remove friction between the Head Coach and player plus do a better job than our CEO.
His agent is a nightmare and you hit the nail on the head Shappey. It’s not worth his clients staying put for 10 years. He earns more by moving them on.
UEFA and FIFA need to get together to fully regulate agent payments it should be a percentage of a transfer fee and then capped off at a value. IMO it is crazy to read (if it’s true) that a buying club has to pay £10M to an agent as part of a deal.
{Ed002's Note - If Pogba were to leave in the summer Manchester United will be able to save on the total amount payable to his agent reducing it to around £33M in total. It is nothing to do with UEFA or FIFA - it was Manchester United who entered in to such an agreement.}}
21 Feb 2019 16:06:33
My prediction is he won't move this summer. I think we'll appoint Ole as manager and he'll look to build the team
around Pogba. I think the Club will work hard to get him to sign a new contract over the next 12 months.
Things change quickly in football. He's probably considering his options like all players. He probably wouldn't be against moving to Barcelona or Real (like most players) but I don't see him forcing a move. If he won't sign a new contract then this is a debate for next summer.
A lot can happen in the next 12 months but if he can replicate this form over an entire season there is absolutely no doubt we'll have the best attacking midfielder in the world. In my opinion you don't let world class talent just walk out of the door without a fight.
{Ed002's Note - He has approached Juventus.}
21 Feb 2019 16:42:56
Even with player swaps we'd still end up getting a bad deal. For example the only players I'd take from PSG are Mbappe or Marquinos. I don't see PSG putting up Mbappe as part of a deal. There's no one ican think of at Juventus that I'd be willing to take in part ex. And at Madrid or Barcelona there's only the obvious names who most likely they wouldn't look to exchange. If we end up getting someone like Douglas Costa and a knocked down fee I'd feel like we'd been ripped off.
21 Feb 2019 16:43:39
Ok thanks Ed002 but Juventus would still have to meet Utd's valuation which I presume must be astronomical. Whilst he might be open to a move I just don't think he'll try to force one and there is a big difference.
I would imagine most agents speak to representatives of other Clubs to see what options are out there and I still call this considering his options rather than wanting to leave. (Semantics maybe) .
Other posters have suggested that Pogba may down tools if he doesn't get a move. I don't agree with this. I think that notion is a touch disrespectful and not based on fact. Players aren't fans, they are professional sportsmen. It doesn't matter to me if a player secretly harbours fantasies of playing for another Club. What matters to me is that they perform on the pitch.
Pogba has proven over the last few months that if he's played in the correct position and given the correct role he can excel and propel this team to another level. Like I said previously we should not let world class talent leave the Club without a fight.
Martial was set to leave he's now signed a new contact. I'm not convinced the Club will entertain any offers this summer unless its somewhere approaching the transfer record. I fully expect Pogba to be a Utd player next season and for the Club to offer him a new contract in the coming months. If he won't sign a move next summer is much more likely in my opinion.
{Ed002's Note - He (not just his agent) should not be speaking to Juventus if he doesn't want a move then. I am not aware of any plans to "down tools" but some clubs won't stand in the way of players wanting out. Certainly Manchester United could price him out a move and keep him. Perhaps if the club was run half decently and not as what is now a dictatorship under Woodward then they would be much better off.}
21 Feb 2019 16:49:06
Ed002. He may well have approached juve. But its up to juve to come up with an acceptable offer to united. If they can't do that then i'm assuming there will be no sale.
{Ed002's Note - You are all in an extremely naïve place right now. If they can persuade him to stay then fine, no doubt he will sign a new contract then all will be well. But as it stands he wants to leave - if Manchester United want to block that by pricing him out of a move or rejecting all offers then there is a risk that the situaon can be difficult. Or they could be practical, take the Costa plus cash offer and then look to bringing in Saul Niguez or perhaps look again to Miralem Pjanic or Verratti?}
21 Feb 2019 17:52:16
DL1B - SAf almost piggy backed him out the door previously and yes he was younger but still showed he had talent.
Mort - Rodrigo Bentancur, dybala, sandro, costa, Miralem Pjanic
João Cancelo, Daniele Rugani, Federico Bernardeschi - anyone could be at the very least a squad improvement on members of our squad with us surely losing a few?
Darmian, valencia, rojo, jones, possibly bailey, possibly pogba, mctominay lukaku and sanchez. None are safe and obviously there's the possibility of loans in the case of TFM pereira and Mctominay. Squads change all the time and as been debated on here loads, none of the above are safe from the axe. i reckon 4 ins and 5 outs.
21 Feb 2019 18:04:43
I don't think i'm in a naive place at all if you read my outstrips posts on this in last 24 hours ed 002 as I've said exactly same as you.
However if juve come in with a low ball or unacceptable bid then its different.
21 Feb 2019 18:09:36
Ed, get your myself that DOF position. You've just given the perfect scenario.
Although, I do worry about Costa and his professionalism.
21 Feb 2019 18:48:51
Pogba will leave and he should leave. He will stsrt crying and act like a baby if he doesn't get on well with the new manager.
I agree with ed. Sell pogba, be practical and buy a player that wants to wear the red shirt.
{Ed004's Note - I disagree. You look to keep your best players and build around them. If he has an issue with our next manager well then revise his situation again then. No point assuming he will because he has had a disagreement with a manager who has fallen out with stars such as Hazard, Ronaldo, Ramos etc and more the past few seasons. Under an attacking manager that gets along with his team hes been a revolation. Saul is a good player but ive no doubt Pogba is a better player. Itll probably cost us more to start next season with Saul and Costa then it would just signing Costa. Thats not a smart move imo. Id be spending the next few months tying to get De Gea, Lindelof, Pogba, Herrera and Rashford to sign new contracts as them alongside Shaw and Martial should be who we build our side around}
21 Feb 2019 19:43:13
I agree we should keep a happy Pogba with no intention to move or hawk himself around to Juve but if he isn't fully committed to United then i reckon he should go.
The questions we should ask is:
Should we give Pogba a new contract and keeping him against his wishes?
Dont you thnk Pogba is a risky player to keep as his mood changes like the english weather?
What if he decides in 2 years time he wants to move again, Do you think it will be wise for us to look for a midfielder in 2 years instead of resolving the issue now?
I just don't think it would be wise to build team around Pogba because if the next permananent manager isn't successful in delivering titles then Pogba will look to move again based on his previous actions.
21 Feb 2019 19:50:04
Ed002 I know that agent fees have nothing to do with UEFA and FIFA.
The point I was making is that they govern the game that millions love and for years the average fan does not have a good opinion regarding agents in the game and the money that flows out through these channels.
Is it not possible for these bodies to get together and then to drive this through all the FA’s regarding a clear system of agents fees.
No problem in an agent earning money through representing a player and taking % from all their sponsorships, endorsements and earnings.
However a % with a maximum cap would be a better way of either slightly reducing transfer fees or ensuring that the majority of the money passes between clubs.
Perhaps just a pipe dream!
{Ed002's Note - The players can sign any contract that they agree to with an agent - they are not forced to sign them. Clubs need not sign players who are registered with specific agents should they not wish to - Manchester United signed Pogba because they wanted to and met the financial requirements of the agent. It is nothing to do with the authorities.}
21 Feb 2019 20:37:01
I can remember a year or two ago ed002 suggesting we weren't perceived as the sharpest tools in the box at negotiations, I was happy when we appeared to baulk at the morata fee but since then in hindsight we have still appeared to over pay on some players we have got . Just to ask are we still perceived as not the greatest of negotiators by other clubs .
21 Feb 2019 21:32:42
Ed004 - At last some sense completely agree.
{Ed004's Note - You also have to look at it from Pogbas side as well. Hes constantly criticised by English media for anything he does, was being offered around by the club, being asked to play a role that doesnt suit him or that he doesnt enjoy and had a disastrous relationship with a coach that didnt appear to be going anywhere. Footballers careers are very short...}
21 Feb 2019 22:31:26
All well and good ed. but selling ypurself to juve? Come on. just have a word with ole, see how you can get past it
But no, pogba wants to go. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
You don't want to be here, then get out of the club, simple.
22 Feb 2019 06:43:18
Hopefully Ole or the new manager can convince him to stay.
Martial wanted out but has stayed and is back to his best.
Pogba himself will see the progress in the side.
Personally I feel, Juventus will have a slide in 2 years.
They have too many players above 30 or near it like Cristiano, Mandzukic, Bonnuci, Chellini, Matuidi.
It is difficult to replace players of that calibre.