Manchester United banter 81663


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13 Feb 2019 20:55:35
Declan rice declares for England.
First they take our potatoes now they take our rice๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚.

Agree12 Disagree0

13 Feb 2019 21:51:21
You mean the guy who was born in England, as well as his parents, he has two Irish Grandparents. It's a ridiculous rule, you should only be allowed to play for your country of birth or the country you spent the majority of your childhood as I can understand how growing up in a country will probably make you feel more closely associated with that country.

Everything else is a cop out to play international football.

13 Feb 2019 22:33:09
Spot on shapoy but we need the players, but when he thought he had no chance of playing for England he had no problem playing for Ireland,
Now the rules are all over the shop.
For me I'd know what country I'd be playing for from a young age,
The question is if you play for a country underage that's your country full stop.

13 Feb 2019 22:34:56
I think he was just making a joke.

13 Feb 2019 22:39:10
I was sepp.

13 Feb 2019 22:40:58
Anyway it's all about the money now, is he worh more in the transfer market now cause he is an English player.

13 Feb 2019 23:19:13
Welcome to my world, Leahy ;)

14 Feb 2019 07:44:18
Correct decision for the lad. Terrible way to go about it.

I'm Irish, have an English son. Born and raised in London. What's not to say he feels more aligned to the Irish side of his family when he grows up and wants to play football for them, that's if he is good enough of course.

Who is anyone to tell him any different?

14 Feb 2019 08:58:45
Angel, as pointed out by Pellegrini in relation to Declan Rice. If your good enough you'll play for England, if not then you'll play for Ireland. Lol.

14 Feb 2019 09:30:24
Spot on, Angel. My young lad's half Scottish, but he would never think of playing for them given the chance. He's lived all his life in Northern Ireland. Breaks his mother's heart ๐Ÿ˜.

14 Feb 2019 11:17:53
Sly digs like that, I would have thought were beneath you shaps. maybe not.

Still doesn't answer the question I posed above. Who's to tell my son as and English born boy who is steeped in Irish history that as he was born here he can only play for England.

You're usually a good Poster, but that above is a load of tosh.

14 Feb 2019 11:59:30
When your young enough and good enough to play for a country at under age you decide then who you play for, it not a problem, then and you cut out all of this.

14 Feb 2019 12:16:55
Angel, its a "banter" site, no such thing as sly digs just good natured banter. Being Irish I would have thought you would have a sense of humour.

On to your question does your lad speak with an Irish accent? Does he identify as Irish? What about him other than having an Irish parent makes him Irish?

I understand as a proud Irishmen you would want your son to represent your country. However, how much he truly feels "Irish" might be hard for you to ascertain.

Would he feel at home living in Cork or Limerick, Galway or Dublin? Would he feel that he is where he belongs?

If so then he might well identify as Irish. However, international football needs to be built on a set of rules, firm, clear and non-negotiable rules.

If we are going to compete under the banner of nationality then there needs to be a clear line between what makes you that nationality or not. Otherwise its not really international football at all.

At the end of the day all human life started in what is Ethiopia today, so should everyone have to play for that national side? No clearly not, that's ridiculous.

So a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Personally I don't agree with "nationalised" status if that happened during adulthood. If you grow up in a country I can understand why you feel attached to that country more so than the country of your birth.

Should you be allowed to represent a country you have never lived in? that maybe your parents have never lived in? That you can't speak the national language of? For me the answer to all three should be no. I would argue that you do not have a stronger link to that country than the country of your birth or the country that you grew up in or the country of your mother tongue.

The grandparent rule is ridiculous and only in place for countries to pick players better than they can produce but not good enough for the country of the players birth.

In 1998 when "France" won the world cup it was a shambles. You had players from the four corners of the world playing in that side. Trezeguet wasn't even born in the same continent. When there are currently 38 Brazilian born players currently representing countries around the world that AREN'T Brazil it makes a mockery of International football.

If 90% of the Irish national team only "qualified" to play for Ireland through their grandparents would you truly consider that an accurate representation of Ireland?

22 of the 25 man squad never lived in Ireland, don't have Irish accents, don't truly know Irish culture and certainly haven't lived or experienced it.

I understand why you would want your son to represent YOUR country, but just be aware that it is YOUR country and not his.

14 Feb 2019 12:55:54
Shappy, you're missing the point. I will be very happy for my son to play for England should he desire. I've no issues at all.

My point is, who is to tell him he can't play for Ireland going your point of 'should be born there or grown up there'?

All in all, international football is a joke. But I feel my point still stands. I hope he grows up to be as connected to Ireland as he can particularly through his family.

But it will be his choice should he want to play for Ireland and feel nobody should be allowed to tell him otherwise.

If he is good enough to play for England I'd be just as proud.

14 Feb 2019 13:19:40
Angel, So should he be allowed to play for Brazil? Or France? Or Germany?

Who should tell him he can't? There are always rules, what I'm suggesting is that they aren't strict enough at the moment and I feel they have been relaxed with the intention of getting more higher quality players in to International tournaments. However, in doing so they undermine the idea of it being an international tournament. I disagree with having managers from different countries. If you are competing as a country then you should be hiring and playing people who are genuinely from your country.

Players like George Best never got to play at the World cup, should he have been allowed to play for England just so he can play in the tournament? No, and in that instance we are talking about one of the best footballers to have ever played.

There are rules and they are in place to protect the integrity of the tournament. I don't think allowing players to represent countries they have never lived in or have a genuine connection to should be allowed to play for those countries.

14 Feb 2019 15:15:00
I get where you're coming from Shaps, and I do think it probably should be restricted to parent's nationality. But it's easier to preach about strict nationality rules, when you belong to a country with a population of 60 million. Smaller nations don't have that luxury of a large talent pool, and if they're not allowed to use every advantage within the rules, then you may us well just let the big nations play each other all the time, because the chances of smaller nations staying competitive are greatly reduced.

14 Feb 2019 16:37:22
And sorry shaps. Sometimes hard to read between lines. I do have a great sense of humour, I swear ๐Ÿ˜‚.

14 Feb 2019 16:38:27
Good point nou. International sports have become a joke though. Look at rugby, cricket etc.

14 Feb 2019 19:34:06
Stevie, are you taking the P? You had Georgie Best, so don't preach about smaller nations not having the talent.

On a serious note though I get what your saying. However, that still allows larger nations to abuse the system like France in 98, Germany with Kevin Kuranyi, Portugal with Deco or Italy with Thiago Motta.

These aren't small nations that typically struggle to qualify.

I feel the rule need to be stricter if you want to call it an international tournament. However, I do concede that the qualification process needs addressing so the smaller nations aren't shoved to the periphery as they currently are. Unfortunately the money is made by the "big" or "famous" football nations being at the tournament so they do rig it to make sure they are more likely to qualify with the seeding system. It sucks, but money makes the world go round, or so they say.

14 Feb 2019 20:14:10
Shapps, we are talking about a kid who's dad is Irish. If he feels more Irish than English due to his heritage and family, then who is anyone to tell him different. He is 1st gen and entitled to travel with his Irish passport. My boy is Irish and English, can play for who he wants.

Why would he be allowed to play for Germany or Brazil, using random countries to try and illustrate a point that makes no sense.

You stated if he's born in a country or grew up in a country then that's who he should play for. And I say nonsense to that. I'm arguing that point.

There should be a line, I think the Declan rice scenario was nonsense. His dad wasn't even born in Ireland. But the fact that he played for us all the way to and even 3 senior caps and then could change allegiance. That was nonsense too.

But born or raised in a country and can only play for that country I think is just silly.

I've got plenty of mates that are born and raised here but both parents are Irish and feel more connected to Ireland than most Irish born people I know. Using your logic, they wouldn't be allowed to represent Ireland. But in no way do they feel English?

14 Feb 2019 21:46:11
Or graham le saux or terry butcher or john barnes
Lots of english examples too left out of your post.

If the rules are there its up to the player. Rice is doing what he feels is right. I don't think he will play 10 games for england but its his choice he has to go with his heart.
Ray houghton had the best record imo a scots man scoring for ireland to win a match in euro 88 against england the stuff of dreams. ๐Ÿ˜‚.

15 Feb 2019 07:41:15
Angel, my point of throwing countries like Brazil in there is because you said "who is to say who my son can or cannot play for? "

Yet your happy to accept he can't play for Brazil.

So my point has always been about where that line should be drawn.

Your point seemed like you were saying there should be no line. Yet you agree he shouldn't play for Brazil thus contradicting yourself on there being a line somewhere. My point was to highlight that you yourself would put boundaries on what is and isn't allowed. So you can't really then go on to say no one can place boundaries.

It's tricky, especially between England, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. As the cultures are very similar. Yet if you agree that there is a difference between English and Irish culture then a line can be drawn.

Personally though my understanding of how people develop and gain an Identity I feel that you really do need to spend a significant part of your childhood in a country enveloped in that countries culture to adapt and adopt that country as the over riding part of your identity.

I know a great many people who were born in one place but grew up in another, or were born to parents from other countries. Sadly they often struggle to feel truly connected to a place or culture that just isn't a part of them due to not being exposed enough to it at an early age.

That's why for me it is sensible to draw the line at having been born or lived a significant amount of time in that country as a child.



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