Manchester United banter 81554


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01 Feb 2019 17:19:59
So here's a question I have always wondered about that seems apt at the moment.

Do you need to win things with a "smaller" club to be a good/ great manager and be worthy of having a shot at a big club?

Now Pochettino is currently the favourite for the United job, now he hasn't won anything. So the barometer that people say makes him "ready" is how he has managed to lift Spurs to a new level and get them consistently challenging for the title and being in the top four. It's hard to argue that what he has achieved is impressive.

Yet is it really anymore impressive than what Eddie Howe has achieved with Bournemouth. Regular midtable finishes with a tiny club which he has dragged up from league 2 after saving them from relegation. And he has done so by playing good, offensive, entertaining football.

So why is Pochettino more "qualified" than Howe?

We are quick to point out the difficulties of managing a top side, the pressure, the ego's etc. Yet, are we too dismissive of the benefits of managing a top club? Better players, bigger budget, better facilities etc.

Look at Zidane and Pep. One is clearly a top top manager, yet there are question marks over the head of the other even after he won 3 ECL titles on the bounce. Both were given a shot having had little experience. Zidane for my money is an average manager who had an extraordinary squad of players spearheaded by one of the greatest of all time players at his peak. Does this not highlight that good managers with the right set up and group of players can win the biggest titles. It's not necessarily about having a world class manager. But about having the right manager at the right time. No one bar Zidane would have been able to win 3 UCL titles on the bounce with Real Madrid, yet he probably isn't even in the top 20 best managers to have ever managed them. Yet he was the perfect manager at that time.

I think we need to build a better structure at our club, Bayern Munich often pick up younger managers plying their trade in the Bundesliga but have yet to win anything. More often than not these guys go on to have success with Bayern. Obviously Bayern and the Bundesliga is an entirely different kettle of fish to the EPL. Yet they still compete to the latter stages of the UCL as well.

Are we too obsessed with "winning" managers, blinded to great young managers who might be a better fit. Case in point the hiring of Mourinho over Pochettino three years ago. Where would we be now if we went for the up and coming young manager back then rather than the tried and trusted old hand?

My point I suppose is that Ole might not be a great manager, yet he might be the right man for our side right now. Obviously there is a long way to go yet in the season, but if he keeps going as he is then it just has to be him for the full time job.

Agree12 Disagree1

01 Feb 2019 17:38:37
Totally agree, the mentality needed at a top club is different as well, ole is doing well as he has the experience of playing in the big games and winning them. Poch doesn’t seems happy to be in the tournaments which isn’t what Utd are about.

01 Feb 2019 18:10:16
I actually wrote something similar and work and didn't post it.
It's more like the right fit than the best manager for me.
This is working, really working, and there may come a time when we will lose 2-3 games on the bounce, PSG, Liverpool and Chelsea are all super hard games.
But the negativity is out.
Most of our fans would be happy to see us play good attacking football trying to win games and still lose than see us win 1-0 and park the bus.

01 Feb 2019 18:28:53
Yet another great post shappy, you're on fire lately!

This is just my personal opinion but if for some reason we didn't get ole then I would prefer Eddie Howe, I think the job he has done with what in essence is a tiny, tiny club is nothing short of miraculous.

Also one of the best watches in the league, I've a hell of a lot of time for Bournemouth and Howe.

01 Feb 2019 18:48:49
Pochettino's comment about winning cups was a weird one. However, I saw a stat today about Spurs which was astounding. If you doubled the wage of every Spurs player then signed 7 more who were all on £100k per week, they would still have a lower wage budget than Man City. That itself shows he has done an unbelievable job and is one of the best managers around.

Tactics are obviously important as managers like Guardiola, Mourinho etc show, but the most important thing is ensuring the players are invested in those tactics. As soon as Mourinho's players get sick of him, results turn but the tactics don't change. Pep has won things everywhere but his teams seem to be reasonably parabolic over his tenure. Usually after the first season and the end of the third they peak then fall away. City this season Vs last, his Bayern team looked worse in his last few months in charge and even Barcelona with Messi were at their best between 2009 and 2011.

I completely agree about Ole, if things keep going like this then the job looks like it's as good as his. As much as it's a gamble, I would love to see him get the job permanently. His love for the club is clear and this last couple of months is arguably the most exciting we have been since Fergie retired. He may not be seen as an elite manager but maybe at some clubs that isn't what is needed as shown with Zidane.

01 Feb 2019 19:23:27
One point i'd like to make is that both Zidane and Pep were not famous managers before taking over at Madrid and Barca. They were just given a chance.

01 Feb 2019 19:45:41
But fresh. weren't they not managing the 2nd teams?

01 Feb 2019 19:41:51

01 Feb 2019 20:19:40
We are still in the honeymoon period for Ole. I think we need to make some structural decisions for the club before deciding on the manager. If they want to go down the route of the all powerful manager it will be a step back to SAF days. However would they then need a DOF?

I was not comfortable with Pochettinos comments re trophies, whilst at the same time knowing he was also deflecting to take the pressure off the players.

Many have fallen into the romance of Ole and he certainly has done little wrong apart from team selection on Tuesday but it is a big job once the full expectation is brought to bear on him. If I was the CEO, I would be asking for his strategy and plan then assess from there.
A poor start next season and he would be under tremendous pressure. I get the impression things would feel good under Ole, but that isn’t enough, experience to turn around difficult situations will be needed, so we should not jump in yet.

02 Feb 2019 03:34:25
We have already burned our hands with Moyes. Also if we give it to Ole and results go downhill next season, i am afraid the Poch ship would have sailed.

02 Feb 2019 05:09:59

Interesting point. I don’t think it’s necessarily about winning trophies it’s about mentality. We have seen very good players arrive at OT and not deliver, they are unable to cope with tv he stage, the pressure, the expectation, and it’s the same for Managers. You don’t know how good a Manager is until you give him a chance, some will rise to the challenge, others will crumble. I know Jose had won the Champions League with aporto but it was a massive step up to Chelsea and he clearly relished and embraced it. AVB, not so much.

Take Howe. I like him and the football he plays but is he just a great fit at Bournemouth? Nigel Clough at Burton has enjoyed success he hasn’t replicated elsewhere. It’s the same with the. Ginger names, Sarris has admitted he’s finding it harder than he thought and right now he seems wracked with self doubt.

I’m not saying we take a punt but winning trophies is only a part of it. We need to understand the character and mentality of the person we want, will they cope either the pressure? I think Moyes looked like a rabbit in the headlights and was a perfect example of taking a punt. Any recruitment process has to focus on much wider issues than playing style, management experience, trophies and so on. Poch did well at Southampton and it was a big step up to Spurs which he embraced, but if you read Carrick’s book he talks about how big the step up was from Spurs to United so how would Poch fare? Would be freeze, or would he blossom and realise his potential?

03 Feb 2019 06:44:15
Shan, the same case can be made for Ole.
If we appoint Poch and he doesn’t fit or succeed will we have missed the window for Ole to be successful?



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