Manchester United banter 81536

 

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(single word yields best result)

30 Jan 2019 15:53:41
Bizarrely I am actually really pleased with what I saw last night, which seems an odd thing to say after we lost ground on the top four with a draw at home. Yet I am still pleased.

I am pleased because we didn't see anything we didn't already know. Jones can be defensively suspect and we are prone to defensive errors, we don't have the quality in depth to rotate our squad and still play an offensive style of football to the same standard.

Mata and Lukaku can't offer the same quality of movement, energy or pace that Martial, Rashford, Lingard and Sanchez can. Well we all knew that.

Andreas Pereira isn't as good in midfield as Ander Herrera. Again no surprise.

However, we dominated that game. We had control of the game for most of the 90 minutes, we had the ball, we kept having shots and creating chances. Where we fell down it was the usual and obvious mistakes and suspects.

Yet at 2-0 we didn't give up, we kept pushing and we pulled it back. Very few teams are 2-0 at 87 minutes and avoid losing. We could have even had another penalty, or if we had taken one of our numerous other chances we could have maintained the 100% winning streak. That shows great attitude and a strong mentality. Neither of those were evident in our players under the previous manager. So its fair to say that Ole is the one who is getting that out of our players.

For me the big thing I've noticed tactically since Ole took over is just how vital Ander Herrera is to this side. He balances the midfield, he provides the legs that Matic doesn't have and the defensive work that Pogba just doesn't do. He is the guy closing people down, and he is the one who is always available to receive a pass and relive pressure. He helps take control and allow our side to set the tempo.

Seeing Andreas Pereira try and do that job in midfield it becomes painfully clear just how vital Herrera is to how we play. That balance in midfield, that control means our defence isn't tested or stretched as often, while also means we can make more goal scoring chances as we have the control of the ball 20-30 yards further up the pitch.

This is making me wonder how much we need an alternative in the summer. We have Fred and McTominay. but both appear to be a significant drop in quality to Ander. I'm hoping Fred comes good, in theory he is everything we need in that role, hard working, defensively diligent and good on the ball. Is the EPL just too quick for him or can he adjust? Maybe with a more mobile alternative to Matic in midfield Fred might find it easier.

Either way it is clear that the role Ander Herrera is playing is vital to how this side plays. let's get him tied down to a new contract and hope he stays fit for the rest of the season.

Some have said last nights result is the first mark against Ole, the result maybe, but for me the performance shows why he should be considered the front runner for the job. I won't blame him for rotating the squad. We have had a lot of games over a short period, and we have an intense month ahead. Key players need resting now to avoid burn out. It's just that having had three managers in 5 years the squad is littered with players suited to very different styles, meaning that when we rotate we either need to play in a different way or accept a drop in quality. Personally, I would rather we play the United way and I'll take whatever we get. Win, lose or draw.

Lets see how the team "bounce" back against Leicester this weekend, it could be more telling as to the suitability of Ole long term than anything we've seen so far.

Agree23 Disagree4

30 Jan 2019 16:05:42
Good post Shappy fully agree pal.

30 Jan 2019 16:51:01
Thoughtful analysis Shappy, I think you read that game well.
We still did ok, it was the 1%ers that killed us. Nice setup by Rom to put Rashford through. Wasn’t to be. The second pen. A couple of great saves for certain goals by Heaton. Yes Dave the save made a couple of good ones too. But watching the replay, it wasn’t half as bad as some of the headlines had me thinking this morning (down under)
I agree the response from the team and Ole afterwards was good.
Now they need to take the next step, learn and recover the hunger.

30 Jan 2019 16:59:14
Shappy, i want to agree with that really but cant. Not many teams would be 2-0 at 87 minutes and avoid losing, correct? But how many teams are 2-0 down to Burnley at home. Burnley were beaten 5-1 by City just 3 days ago and we couldn't get the job done against that team. That is what hurts. I wouldn't mind us losing or drawing to a top 4 team but not Burnley. I was anoid and probably still am not because we drew but because we were told that under the new regime these are the games we would sweep aside and yet we have struggled against Brighton, Newcastle, Reading and now Burnley. Now how many of these are top teams that we shouldn't be beating easy? I still feel that our lads are chosing when to play and when not to. Pogba has been poor for a few games now, he only played well in a couple of games at the start of Ole's tenure. Now yesterday why was Lukaku taken off for Sanchez and not Mata. Mata was poor and still played on. Lukaku didn't have a good game but still would have been useful when we were playing balls in the box at the end. I am sure he would have been able to win more headers than Rashford, Sanchez, Lingard and Mata combined. Did Ole make a mistake there?

I don't want to sound negative here but i am yet to be convinced that Ole is the man and still feel that there is a man in the team who choses when he wants to play and invariably the day he choses not to, we struggle. Player power, is that the way we want to move forward with our beloved club?

30 Jan 2019 17:08:00
Cheers DLIB.

Perthredmike, thanks. On another night with a shade more luck we could have won that game 3-2 or 4-2. But that's football. We are Manchester United and we never lose games narrowly, we are either well beaten or just terrible. Or at least that's what the press think. I pay no attention to the papers or the mainstream media, for the most part they don't care about integrity or accurate reporting, just making as much money as possible, so they will bait the hooks with whatever sells or gets clicks. I'm not saying don't read it, only give it the credence it deserves (little to none) .

Like i said the reaction from the manager and the players will be interesting. And will tell us more about whether Ole is the right man going forward than any of the other games so far.

30 Jan 2019 17:35:53
Shan, What do you expect? Did you expect Ole to sell 10 players and bring in 10 new ones in January? He has exactly the same group of players warts and all that Jose had.

So what do you expect? He has changed the mentality of the squad. There is no way this group of players would have had the mental fortitude to dig deep and salvage something from that game last night under Mourinho. That is a massive improvement in little over 6 weeks.

We are attempting to play the right way, yet perfection doesn't happen over night. Improvement is a process and one that generally takes time. We have had a massive improvement in a short space of time. But if your expecting Ole to close the gap between us and City in 6 weeks with no new signings then you expect far too much.

Pep has had 2 and a half years working with that squad, spending over £500m in bringing new players in and has spent in excess of 4000 hours training and working on improving those players and getting them to play the way he wants. Ole has spent £0 and has had maybe 200 hours working with this squad.

So comparing Ole's United with Pep's City at this stage is like comparing Apples and Oranges.

If you want to compare our results against City's then why not the results against Newcastle instead of Burnley. City lost to Newcastle last night having been ahead from the first minute. The same Newcastle side we beat 2-0 away at St James under Ole. So what does that say?

My point is just because another team got a result against a certain opposition it doesn't mean we should match it. Different games, under different circumstances produce different results. Had we played Spurs in Ole's first game we might have lost it, or we might have won in by more than the 1-0 result we got.

Burnley got tanked last week against City so they set up to sit deep and defend for their lives so that a one off result doesn't become a poor run. We struggled to break them down and fashion clear cut chances. It happens, do you think we would have done better under the previous manager? Cus I sure as hell don't think we would have done.

Does this squad of players still need significant work to get them to the required level? Yeah of course they do. There are still question marks over certain players and their ability to dig deep when they aren't happy or getting their way. However, we can't move those players on mid season and we can't bring in the players we need. So our current manager has to make do with what he has and make the most of what he has.

So far he has changed the mentality of the players, he has embedded an attacking philosophy in keeping with our clubs traditions and he has yet to lose a game. That has to be considered pretty successful in a mere 6 weeks. You need to put all our results and performances into the correct context and not an idealised version of what you would like to see.

For me the very fact that we are playing better and we are seeing a better attitude and mentality from the players without significant investment and in a limited time frame makes me more hopeful about the future. What could this side look like playing this style, with this mentality if the correct players could be brought in?

30 Jan 2019 18:34:25
Shan mate, you make some good points but you need to take a step back. Ole won 8 in a row, I suspect he tried a couple of things yesterday and they didn’t work. We took Lukaku off and scored 2, I think it reinforced that a combination of Martial, Lingard, Rashford, andnow Sanchez are the front 3.

I do agree about a Pogba, he really does need to take that final step up.

I have no idea if Ole is the right man but we will find out a lot more in the next 6 weeks.

30 Jan 2019 18:38:02
Spot on again Shappy.

30 Jan 2019 18:56:15
Shappy you are dead right.
Apart from fred we really only have herrera pogba and matic as pepper midfielders.
2 of our front 6 are not ideally suited to our play.
Young at fault for the 2nd goal due to him not being a natural defender.
It happens regularly.
No manager could compete to win the league with this squad. After our 1st 13/ 14 of you have to play any of them regularly we could drop points against any side like we have been doing for the last 6 seasons.
The squad is well short.
Just 1 point we came back from 2 down twice this season Shappy.
Ole can't play herrera matic pogba in every game. When he has to play another midfielder we will struggle. Same if he plays mata and lukaku together. Its no real surprise the strength in depth is just not there.
Im sure it will be addressed yet again thus summer we can only hope that the new coach selects the right players. i'd have faith in ole to make those choices.

30 Jan 2019 21:16:21
Starting to look like that point might be gaining on our rivals.

31 Jan 2019 03:23:34
Yes, after an embarrassing Chelsea defeat to Bournemouth it leaves us 2 points behind both Arsenal and Chelsea with 14 games to go.
Not insurmountable.

31 Jan 2019 06:52:09
So Shappy, we didn't beat Palace last season after going behind. Or forget Palace, how about City at the Etihad. I am sure the mentality was still there. It just reinforces my point that its all there, just that the players are choosing when to use that.

For you Shappy, Jose could do no right while Ole can do no wrong. Or so it seems.

We have won 8 in a row but is all this down to Ole? That's my question.

31 Jan 2019 07:03:23
Excellent reply Shappy. Some of the expectation of our fans is just ridiculous. Considering the situation we were in, Ole has done an amazing job.
Infact nobody would have expected us to go unbeaten thus war and beat Arsenal as well as Spurs at their home.
Results plus style. And top 3 is now very much achievable.

31 Jan 2019 08:21:20
Shan,

Well before Ole came in we were dreadful and now we arent, sure it’s not all down to Ole but you clearly have to give him a hell of a lot of credit for the job he’s done so far. Nobody is saying they are ‘convinced’ he is the man for the job, as I’ve said to you before we don’t make that decision and even the man who does isn’t making it yet so no need for you or any of us to worry about that, just enjoy the rides it’s certainly been a good one so far with Ole at the wheel.

31 Jan 2019 09:43:26
Shan, did the players choose not to play for Mourinho? Certainly some of them did, but I wouldn't say all of them were purposely playing poorly.

I feel a lot of what was wrong with Mourinho's United side was poor and outdated tactics that were I'll fitting for the players he had available. You don't invite pressure on to your defence if your defence is your weakest area. That's just asking for trouble.

A managers job is to get the best out of what he has. That means playing to your players strengths and getting the most out of them by inspiring them to work hard.

Mourinho didn't play to his players strengths, in fact it could be argued he played to their weaknesses. Inviting pressure on our defence, playing strikers out wide away from goal, making offensive players focus more on defending than attacking and playing Lukaku as a hold up striker when his first touch isn't good enough to play that role. He then went one stage further and slated the players for performing poorly. Publicly shaming them and in some cases boardline bullying them via the media. Hardly surprising several of them lost respect for him and probably didn't try their best. He himself alienated the players.

Ole on the other hand plays to his players strengths, he inspires them to work hard, to improve to take risks and to grow. If they have a bad game he no doubt let's them know how to improve but he doesn't throw them under the bus. He takes responsibility for the tactics and the performances. So the players feel happy and want to play for him.

That is what Old has done. So why shouldn't be get the credit for his good work and why shouldn't Mourinho take the blame for his mistakes?

31 Jan 2019 09:53:59
Fair enough GDS.

31 Jan 2019 20:22:44
Shappy that is a good post.

So much better to see positive, optimistic posts again, it really hasn't been pleasant on here recently, so well done matey and I agree with you.

Onwards and upwards.







 

 

 
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