Manchester United banter 81002


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26 Nov 2018 12:24:10
Good morning all. Long time reader, non poster. Have to have my say on all the negative comments on here and across a number of different forums.
My reaction to Utd's dismal display was like most. I was disgusted. I really don't know what I am watching sometimes. My grievances don't ly with Jose but the inability of the players that take to the field week in week out. There seems to be more concern within them to there social media accounts and their own images. I agree whole heartedly with Jose's comments about "lacking heart". No heart or passion on show in any of the Utd play whatsoever on Saturday, but then there was a flat, stale atmosphere in OT from the get go. Keano was right about the prawn sandwich brigade and the touring supporters. I know it's only Palace, but they always bring a game to Utd, home and away and 9 times out of ten, we always come up with the goods. But without heart you have nothing as obviously shown on Saturday afternoon.

This brings me back to the players and leadership within the group. When was the last time you seen a Utd player lambaste a team mate? I can't recall. Maybe this is more symptomatic of the world we now live in that we have to watch every word we say so as to not upset some snow flake. I've never been shy in work to give the tongue lashing when required, I've been on the end of many through the years also, never took offence but brought out the best of me for the team. We're not seeing the best of these players as they are all nicey nicey, soft individuals with no heart or balls. Jose wasn't nice to Shaw for a couple of seasons and in fairness to him, he took it on board and is now showing his worth. Martial is showing glimpses but still has half a sulk on him. Don't see the conviction. Pogba, undoubted quality but jogs about with his head up his backside, flitting in and out of games. When former players and pundits criticise the team as individuals, rather than showing a reaction they react on social media. Spineless.
Remember the days of Kevin Moran, it was as if a bandage was part of his kit. Robson, Bruce, Vidic, Keano, these guys put their head in where you wouldn't put your foot. These were leaders, winning leaders with qualities that brought the best out of themselves and those around them. These guys were the foundation of winning teams. The last leader imo was Ibra, we've won nought since he left. Who within the group has that leadership quality/ ability? None from what I see. You can't blame JM for that. Take Bailey for instance, when at Villarreal he was that guy that put the body on the line, lead the team from the back. That's what Utd invested in. Where did that go? He lost something. Jones also had the winner takes all mentality but unfortunately not the quality.
Where is Sanchez gone? The guy gets the bones of 2mill a month and he is a shadow of the player he was. This is down to effort and work rate IMO. There should be real headaches for JM atm with all players fit and available, training should be at a real high tempo now with all putting in 110% to get into the team and squad but then you see Sat and they ain't at it whatsoever.
Ultimately this is all going to fall on JM and be viewed upon as his failure, but players need to stand up, show character, bravery and leadership in order to turn this ailing season around.

Agree7 Disagree6

26 Nov 2018 13:18:14
Couldn’t have put it better myself mate.

I’ve said it a 1000 times, when things between Mou and pogba were all over the media I wouldn’t have sacked pogba and shown the players that Mou is the man in charge here not some french Becks wannabe.

26 Nov 2018 13:20:33
I'm not sure Sanchez issues are down to a lack of work rate, the bloke is struggling for form but he puts a shift in.
We do look void of leaders but as was pointed out the other day is matic not a leader, lukaku looks one for Belgium and pogba was for France during the WC.
Them 3 also look better players for the national team from the outside there looks to be a lot wrong with the dynamics of the team at the moment .

26 Nov 2018 13:57:17
Bailly is struggling because he isn't making last ditch tackles, Sanchez is struggling because he isn't working hard enough. Have you watched either of them?

Also palace never bring the game to us especially at OT, this was literally the 1st PL point they earned at OT.

26 Nov 2018 14:02:40
Also it's funny how no one said this of the players when they helped us overturn the game at City last season or Newcastle, Bournemoth, Juventus this season. It's all the players fault never the manager's for some.

26 Nov 2018 14:48:52
The thing about leadership is that it starts from the top down. When the manager fails to convince the players of the merits of their approach, it’s far more difficult for the players to motivate themselves.

This is what we are currently seeing, an approach to football that is outdated and negative, and players who are unmotivated to perform because they can see the manager’s approach isn’t working and he doesn’t listen to their complaints. When we fail Jose blames the players, when we succeed he takes the credit.

26 Nov 2018 15:29:13
Welcome, mate. But you said it yourself, Bailly was a leader-type in Spain. He doesn't suddenly not have that. Which makes me think, the problem lies elsewhere.

26 Nov 2018 18:43:25

Well done for putting your head over the parapet.

It looks like some players are having the equivalent of a hissy footstamping fit, but they probably think, even believe that this action will see the manager sacked. Some also probably think the decision maker is likely to fold and give in. They wouldn’t have thought that when Gill and SAF were together but further back there was unbelievable pressure on the manager in 89. Someone had cohones back then, but have they got that now or does the same give in attitude run higher than the team?

Players can fold under pressure, not be the players they were elsewhere, it has happened many times. Just because one was a leader type when in a small pool doesn’t mean they will at Old Trafford. Perhaps Character is more important than media clicks and social profile?

26 Nov 2018 19:00:22
He's on the decline, Red Man. Just accept it. Happens to us all.

26 Nov 2018 19:49:28
The excuses are laughable!

Klopp Guardiola Sean Dyche Eddie Howe etc players have no problem playing for them despite not winning anything with em except Guardiola and their style being demanding physically compare to Mournho.

u could give mourinho benifit of doubt and blame players but this has happen in he's previous job too, not once but twice so defending mourinho here and blaming players is laughable.

Red man love your passion and get it why u defend mourinho because of he's previous success and u think he'll turn it around given time and more funds from owners, at the same time w/ he's pedigree whoever replaces him wouldn't be as good as him.

But u forget to acknowledge that w/ all that success in his CV there are some huge huge failures attach too.

When things have gone wrong he could/ has never turned it around, in fact it just gets worse, so all the best guys

26 Nov 2018 20:21:55
Kopitef dare I say you are talking sense.

26 Nov 2018 20:29:24
Im not blind and i know Mou is the main problem here, he should have never been given the job but now he has it and the faster he gets fired the better for us. Howe, Poch will do a much better job than "The special one". Of course we need to get rid of some players as well.

26 Nov 2018 21:05:01
Some managers can fold as well .

If Jose gets the sack and he might it will be the third job in a row that he has been sacked .

Pep and most good managers more on Jose is on a downwards spiral .

The club is nothing like the United of 89 and Jose ain't fergy.

26 Nov 2018 22:08:51
Lvg had a great cv, good with Holland, good with barce unbelievable with Ajax. Ajax really was a special time .
Good with the kids, from all accounts had a major influence on our youth set up .
Finished his last season with United joint 4th and fa cup winners .
Why did you want him sacked yet Jose can do no wrong?

27 Nov 2018 06:55:36
LvG should have been part of a plan to bring Pep in, set up a structure and yes I said that at the time. It became obvious it wasn’t and there was no plan. I would disagree on lvg’s cv but you may look at cv’s different to others. I supported LvG longer than nearly everyone else as well but he brought in mediocrity.

I have never said Jose can do no wrong, he has made mistakes but there are a lot of problems left by three previous managers and I think we need to have someone at the helm with the right cv. My problem is there doesn’t appear to be anywhere near enough support for Mourinho, the summer window was very poor, I don’t think they are buying the players he wants, just the positions and not even all those and are likely waiting until we can’t make top four to sack him. It will save the club money, like with Moyes and LvG, it seems all about money. I think Jose is a dead man walking unless the board get 100% behind him and it is sad too see the state of our club, a club that seems to lack leadership.

27 Nov 2018 09:13:59
You didn't answer the question, why did you want LVG sacked, and yet Jose can do no wrong .

27 Nov 2018 18:54:59

I supported LvG until it became untenable regardless of whether he won the cup. I was not in favour of his appointment but supported like I have with Jose, longer than most, if not all, on here, to the point where as with Mourinho I was accused of being an LvG fan or apologist. I am sure you can find my posts where I explained why I felt it was sadly the time to part company.

As to Mourinho, “yet Jose can do no wrong”. Oh dear, I think he has made mistakes, he is human and as I have said I am not a fan of his, however don’t put words down to me that I have never said.

He has demonstrated his ability to win, has the cv and from my perspective is not being fully supported from above. Therefore I don’t think it is the right time to sack him, but
“Do no wrong” is inaccurate. Inaccuracy is not new for you though is it.



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