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11 Oct 2018 13:17:03
Saying that the fans are to blame for United's parlous state is like saying that the imminent bankruptcy of one of the US's iconic businesses, Sears, is the fault of the customers. Sorry, that's not the way things work. The customers left because the company itself failed to keep up with the trends. Our club was held hostage for so long to excessive debt service that necessary re-investment was not made when it was required and we have been overcompensating for the last 5 years. In footballing terms we failed to keep up. Everyone could see the deficiencies both in our transfer policy and youth development program when players like Tom Cleverley were expected to replace the likes of Paul Scholes. It was masked by SAF's continuing magic in domestic competitions. 

I've been a supporter for 55 years. We have had some good teams and some not so good ones. We have had a couple of great managers. At United we go to extremes. Fortunately having been well funded even our worst periods are not that bad. It goes in cycles. For me I'd rather we win but I'm actually somewhat amused by the current spectacle. I have no doubt some toxic fans and the press have an influence on Board decisions, more so now that the whole value of the club is as a brand rather than a team, but the buck stops with those who run the club and nowhere else. What we are going through is a catharsis. We will come out of it a better club but my guess is we haven't yet seen the end of the carnage.

Agree17 Disagree0

11 Oct 2018 16:21:59

The good news is that like ED002 says the club is looking to get a director of football in and change the structure of how things work, that says to me that they know things are not working in their current structure and it is likely we will see a marked improvement from that time.

11 Oct 2018 16:22:43
Good post.
Ed002 has put things into perspective for me.
As a fan we've been used to being at the top etc.
Until Abramovich came along, others teams couldn't match us financially.
Man City were bought out hy the Sheiks.

Its how the club has been run behind the scenes etc.
A poor academy, no DOF.
Perhaps Fergie had to much control which didn't help when he retired as the staff were left unsure of who did who.

We need to stick with Mourinho.
Mourinho also needs to show faith and like the 2nd half against Newcastle, go out and attack. After all, attack is the best form of defence.

Lets be United and get behind the players.

It can be difficult at times, but this maybe for the best.

If we sort out how the club is run which should have been sorted oht along time ago. It should enable the club to progress.

11 Oct 2018 18:41:02

Ed002 said Toxic fans affected and influenced the decision making of the club. Think on that, it says the owners, the board could not take a stand for what they had planned in terms of a transition from LvG to Allegri, instead they bowed to what in effect was noise. The toxic fans may be difficult and have pushed them, but they did not have the leadership to stand up for their own plans. The owners have never communicated a strategy or plan and Ed’s information indicates they couldn’t do what leaders do, know what direction they want to go and take people on a journey with them. It’s one reason but by no means the whole picture. Social media nowadays is pernicious, you only have to read these pages and other social media, the club has shown it is sensitive to social media by using the 600 million followers in proposals.

Toxic fans have had an impact but the question is why the board allowed that.

11 Oct 2018 18:51:13
I find it mildly amusing that our huge number of toxic fans couldn't influence the Glazers into selling our Club despite some pretty horrific behaviour including threats of violence, mass protests, insulting banners and intimidating chants. Despite this abhorrent behaviour our intrepid owners remained steadfast and resolute. Apparently sacking managers on the other hand is far simpler. Merely stamp your feet and shake your head in a child like manner and write some disparaging remarks on Social Media and our fearless owners will quickly lose their resolve, abandon their plans and bow to our every demand. Who knew manipulation of our board was so simple?! In fact if the toxics could please force the board into buying two new CB's, RB, LB, CM, RW and CF our current manager would be eternally grateful. On the other hand if the toxics don't like our current manager you know what to do. Easy peasy he'll be gone before the end of the International break. Choose wisely dear toxics for the path to enlightenment is rarely as simple as it seems. With great power comes great responsibility so be warned for it is not the board, the players or the manager but the fans fault for every single failure since the great one departed.

11 Oct 2018 19:39:32
Excellent post, DLIB.

11 Oct 2018 20:36:52
Who says Allegri was the answer? That might have been the plan but it doesn’t mean it would have worked. I’m almost reassured that there was a plan as it often seems Woodward makes it up as he goes along, signing Sanchez for example was a knee jerk reaction. Letting SAF influence the choice of Moyes was bizarre, the appointment of Moyes went against all sensible rational thought, I wonder if he was a deliberate fall guy. Then appointing LVG almost felt like a reaction to that one great Holland game.

Mourinho is not for me but he has been getting some dreadful stick lately, it seems to be open season with everyone piling in a bit like a pack of bullies taking encouragement from the rest, egging each other on.

We lack leadership and expertise on the football side of things. We can change the Manager as often as we want but if we don’t address those things then it won’t get any better.

12 Oct 2018 07:27:12
Fantastic post DLIB. Really does make you wonder about the so called toxics.

12 Oct 2018 08:37:43
Some great summaries of wider context and link to toxics which, when taken with Ed002’s comments below, really make sense. Cheers.



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