Manchester United banter 80630


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26 Sep 2018 09:40:37
Well the season is played out in my opinion. I don't think we will see anything different from what we've seen so far.

I mean why would we? We have the same players, the same manager and the same tactics. Jose will not change his ideas or style. There will be no Eureka moment.

We will win games when we are efficient with the few chances we create, we will struggle if we don't. We will look suspect defensively, especially at set plays or when caught on the break. Our style of sitting back and inviting pressure will mean defensive mistakes are more likely to happen and are more likely to be critical when they do.

We approach every game the same way whether it's a European champion side or a lower league side. Our approach doesn't change whether we are playing away or at home.

Sit deep, tight and compact and hit teams on the counter.

The problem is I don't think we have the players to do that effectively like say Atletico Madrid do. We also don't have the fans to accept that way of playing. As a club our fans have become used to playing a certain way. Acting like the under dog at home to a lower league team just isn't acceptable.

This means that every poor result will be blown out of proportion. It is a to of mix that will not end well.

I'm not saying we need to sack Mourinho now. But I am saying we should never have hired him in the first place. He was always a poor fit. If truth be told how many of us now would have been prepared to have LvG for one more year if it meant we got Allegri last season?

This is a terrible state of affairs the club finds itself in at the moment. A snap decision has caused damage to the club, that decision was brought about by the fans.

Yes Mourinho isn't the right man for the job. But the next guy absolutely has to be. That is a decision that shouldn't be rushed, that needs time and planning. And now as fans we have to be patient.

{Ed002's Note - You don't want to lose sight of the fact that this was a one off draw with a progressive Championship club and no more than that.}

Agree4 Disagree4

26 Sep 2018 10:08:52
It's a bit more than that now to be honest Ed. Three defeats to the newly promoted sides last season and defeat to Bristol City in the league cup, already an away defeat to Brighton, home draw with Wolves and last nights embarrassment demonstrate this was no one off.

The football is slow, insipid and unimaginative at best. I agree with Shappy we sit deep sit deep, have numbers behind the ball but show no desire to close down or win it back. We give other teams time and space and let them play. There has been no progression in the style of play and watching Utd theses days has become akin to watching paint dry.

I like Mourinho I can't understand why it's not working but as we've seen last night if Darby can play good stuff with fluidity and imagination whilst still working like dogs I see no reason why Utd can't do the same. The only conclusion I can draw is the players are following the managers instructions and tactics and he's failing to motivate them. We all know we've got no chance of winning the league already. We're now out of the League Cup. If the best we can hope for this season is 4th place then at least we can try to get there without boring us all to tears and tearing our hair out most weeks.

{Ed002's Note - Whilst last season is of no consequence, this is all the result a massive self-inflicted wound caused by the toxic fans. You all knew this would be the eventual result of putting aside the well founded plans and making this appointment. It certainly does not help having a couple of players in the side who want out, but the club are going to smart at the cost of bring players in as prices are looking upward at the higher end. The worst possible situation would now to be price players out of a move - Pogba being an exaple.}

26 Sep 2018 10:16:33
And Saturday was a 'one off draw' against a mid-table prem team, a few weeks before it was a one off loss against relegation fodder in BHA. Also a dismantling at home by a Spurs team that looks out of sorts this season.

I strongly believed we would get beat yesterday pre-game - we were the worse team with 11 men on the pitch as well and the game played out performance wise how I expected - it shouldn't have surprised anybody that has been watching us for the past 3 years.

We got knocked out of last seasons CL by a Sevilla in turmoil at the time barely landing a punch. These performances are typical, but now even weak teams feel disappointed not taking maximum points from us (or dispatching us in cups), especially at OT.

We have had a favourable start fixture wise this season, yet look like going nowhere fast (compared to expectations) . I agree with Shappy 99% of us now could accurately predict how we will play each match and the same percentage will walk away feeling underwhelmed by the inevitable stale performance. A few will love it still, but they see the game through different eyes and are in the ever decreasing minority.

26 Sep 2018 10:41:30
Ed of course last season is of consequence if the same mistakes are still being made and there is no evolution in our style of play.

I don't buy the toxic fan argument, we have no evidence Allergi would have fared any better than his predecessors, the stadium was still full every week accompanied by record turnover. If the owners took any notice of a few frustrated fans venting their frustration over social media then perhaps this explains perfectly why we find ourselves in our current situation. I have great respect for your input on this site and have no appetite to reignite old arguments but the toxic fan conspiracy just doesn't stack up for me. Sorry that's just my opinion based on my own judgement of the facts. We don't all have to agree and I'm sorry if I've caused any offence.

In my opinion Jose will remain in charge until the end of the season. Based on what we've seen in the past I fully expect him to leave if we fail to achieve a top 4 finish.

{Ed002's Note - Last season is of no consequence at all - it is gone, history, nobody is interested. Of course you don't buy the toxic fan argument, Allegri is no doubt a hopeless manager and it was way better to give the contract to someone that doesn't see MU as a progressive club that will adapt to what he thinks they need; someone who doesn't like being in Manchester and don't forget there are those (two senior people) at the club that even now still see a blue tinge surrounding him.

Mr Mourinho made errors as I have explained - a major error in taking on Ibrahimovich - it is disruptive with the kids (with one specific issue having to be overcome by a third party) and of course he wanted to move elsewhere. I have explained that Mkhitaryan was a disaster waiting to happen, but he dealt with that. I have explained over and over that Pogba's career belongs in Spain or Italy - certainly not Manchester - but that is being dealt with.

This was not what the club planned or wanted.}

26 Sep 2018 11:01:18
Ed002 - Brilliant! - "it's the supporters' fault".

Of course it is, silly us.

{Ed002's Note - I have been telling you this since the moment the toxics turned on the club and forced the club to abandon their plans. Perhaps you should go back and read what was explained long ago about what would happen, and then perhaps consider where the club is now. It is pretty hopeless explaining anything to most of the Manchester United supporters.}

26 Sep 2018 11:25:10
Ed I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think Allegri is an excellent manager.

What I don't understand is why the Club would shelve its best laid plans because of a few disgruntled fans venting their frustration on Social Media. I actually believe that if LVG had made the top 4 he wouldn't have been sacked and maybe their plans would have come to fruition. If your telling me that his dismissal had nothing to do with his failure to secure a top 4 finish and more to do with a minority of disgruntled fans than I must accept that you have more knowledge of the inner workings of the Club than me and are in a better position to comment. I accept you are only passing us information I just can't get my head around it. Like I said I have no intention of opening up old debates I fear I have said too much already. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my posts. Have a nice day.

{Ed002's Note - You don't understand what was written about Allegri. I have explained repeatedly since the day it started why the club did what it did. It wasn't a few fans.

I will try and restrict what I put on the MU pages again.}

26 Sep 2018 11:47:00
Thanks for all info as always Ed, think a big trawl through past comments is in order to piece together the narrative.

To be honest, I do actually feel sorry for Jose st the moment / the ugh I don’t agree with the way he’s handling things by criticising players openly - should be kept within his office (unless someone is leaking the things that come out? )

He seems caught between a rock and a hard place:

1. Incredible pressure from fans used to success, from the media eager for a story from the world’s biggest club, from the board who need a successful product to sell to investors - and all with a team that he has only partially been all allowed to shape according to his preferred systems.

2. He’s got players who clearly don’t want to be there and who seen like a disruptive influence in the changing room

3. He wasn’t allowed to buy the defender we so clearly need

4. He’s having to rebuild after the fractious tenured of Moyes and Van gaal

5. He doesn’t like living on Zmancrster as his family is in London

6. Sounds like Woodward wants to bring in younger players also

Plus many more no doubt.

Yes he’s paid LOTS of money to sort this out but how can you physically make players play for you if they are determined not too or are just not good enough?

Personally, I think the only way forward is to remove disruptive influences and start from scratch. This might take a few years so whether Jose - or the expectant fans - can wait this long is another question.

{Ed002's Note - (1) The fans are probably not bright enough to realise that success needs to be earned and other clubs have emerged as challengers over the years. If the club choose to appoint a manager and not entirely trust his opinion totally and were never going to give him what he wanted, they should not be surprised. You must remember that the club wanted someone else and had lined up a future that would have been very good - but that is all long ago and will never happen now. (2) Notably there is one who really wants to leave, but that has been explained to everybody here over and over - but they never believed it. Fortunately, perhaps, there was someone at the game last night who maybe able to facilitate a solution to that particular matter if an issue or two can be resolved. (3) Right, there is work needed on the defence but the "value" issue kicked in. In defence of Mr Mourinho will, probably rightly, deflect some concerns about the defence back to the club that would not give him what he wanted in the summer - and in their defence if prices had not spiralled so high then the "value" issue would likely not have been an issue. (4) Not an issue. (5) Of course not, have you ever been there? The grim, wet and cobbled streets Northwest of England where there is a significant cultural change, smog, dead & dying pit ponies laying on the street, little chance of football at the highest level and only chips and fried curry to eat. (6) Woodward is not the person making decisions about which players join - that comes from elsewhere. The "younger" issues arises for the "value" issue.

Mr Mourinho is paid to coach the football team, not to sort out the issues with the club nor the fans.}

26 Sep 2018 11:52:18
I've not been posting that long Ed I'll search the site for more information sorry if I've offended you or made you repeat yourself. I've only read about the Club wanting Allegri but shelving their plans because of the fans. I'll have a nosey through the site to improve my understanding of the situation. Thank you.

{Ed002's Note - I am not offended.}

26 Sep 2018 12:16:23
Hi Ed, I always appreciate your opinions and insight. In your opinion what does the club need to do to get out of the situation it’s found itself in currently? Is it more an issue of the structure of the club and the beliefs within it that needs to change for us to become progressive again?

{Ed002's Note - Recruit and empower a suitable Director of Football would be the absolute best thing to do to get back on track.}

26 Sep 2018 12:29:24
Ed002 - has explained the above situation re Allegri and mouinho several times and in a manner that all should understand: the only statement that can be added to what has been said is that not all fans were 'toxic' or thought in the same way.
Success is not a given based on many factors and must be earned but the first teamers underperforming, are not able to or in some cases are in the twilight of their careers; does not help the goal. This happens at a lot of clubs but man utd seem to have the monopoly atm. This has been the case before SAF retired and has not been addressed satisfactorily since. We have priced players out of a move through wages primarily and have simply put the club on the verge of self destruction of the successful campaigns we have come to have expected and this will not be sorted quickly. The fans are not privvy to plans within the club structure so I will ask Ed 002 if there is any thing in the pipeline that you know of that could see major change?

{Ed002's Note - Nobody suggested all of the fans were "toxic" but it is the "toxics" who will always be vocal and louder. The club are continuing to try and find a suitable Director of Football - but that won't lead to an overnight change. If the club were to find the money and pay of Mr Mourinho then they would need a temporary coach, a new coach/manager, reconsider the various key targets as they are very much to suit Mr Mourinho's needs and choices, etc., etc..}

26 Sep 2018 13:06:44
Dear Ed002,

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain things on do much detail - just shows how little we know and how much the real narrative is occluded by other interested parties. Thank you for cutting through all the BS and telling it like it really is.

Your answer to No. 2 is very intriguing though! I’m guessing - or rather hoping - that a deal is being putting together to enable Mr Pogba to leave (hopefully Jan! )
I’m guessing the main issue is price, so maybe a cash plus player deal could be possible to make the finances more realistic.

Really hoping we get a Director of Football who can create a cohesive plan that can bring everything together for a brighter future at all levels.

{Ed002's Note - So the situation with Pogba is pretty much unchanged. Manchester United are happy to move him on but will be reluctant to have a player in part exchange at all - but the cash price may put any transfer in jeopardy. Expensive, Barcelona will again try and include a player, work is continuing on trying to get a deal in place but there will need to be a message taken back to Manchester United that is at least worth considering - and don't forget that it is not simply a matter of the cost of the player, there are other significants fees that could make it difficult. Barcelona also have two other central midfield players they are keen to sign and circumstances could remove Pogba from the picture easily - they will only take two out of three at best having already made one significant midfield signing. Juventus have three high price central midfielders in mindfor the CM role but critically need to raise money through a significant sale. The other clubs asked about Pogba are not interested and in particular Real Madrid already have targets tehy are working on in midfield.}

26 Sep 2018 13:22:45
Are you aware if the majority of the players support the manager and his methods? Reports of him “losing the dressing room”.

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea what these hip terms like "losing the dressing room" mean. There seems to be a thought process with the supporters and fans that everything was fine yesterday afternoon but after drawing a game and then losing out on penalties that there was some sort of paradigm shift.}

26 Sep 2018 13:25:40
Thanks Ed, I believe we have been looking for someone in that that role within the club for a while. Do you see a suitable person being recruited any time soon and in your view would the club be willing to empower the individual sufficiently?

{Ed002's Note - Since 2016. I cannot sensibly answer "anytime soon" questions but the question about "empowerment" is very relevant. If they don't then they should forget appointing someone.}

26 sep 2018 13:44:37
can't wait for the club to do the wrong thing ed002, whatever you say, they end up doing the opposite. in a year's time, we'll still be saying the same thing 'we need a director of football asap', shambles, darmian valencia jones young rojo pogba fellaini martial out. glazers out! woodward out! it's a mess!

26 sep 2018 13:45:14
toxic fans out! :)

26 Sep 2018 14:17:06
Thanks Ed002, amazing insight and info as always. Have a good day!

26 Sep 2018 14:20:58
Thanks for the reply ed002- much appreciated . The not all fans are toxic statement was aimed at the people who read but don't digest rather than yourself ; enjoy your day:)

26 Sep 2018 14:37:31
Just to the people who don't think the fans can influence an entire clubs decisions, just look at Liverpool and how who MADE the club get rid of Hodgson for Dalglish.

26 Sep 2018 20:39:59
Fantastic info Ed002.



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