Manchester United banter 80534

 

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08 Sep 2018 16:57:47
Ed001s comments on Jason Ferguson's Elite agency and the nepotistic attitude to representation displayed by SAF brought me to a Bleacher Report article back in 2010 related to his intent even then to appoint his fellow Scot Moyes as his successor.

If true, it really does beg the question whether Ferguson's tendency towards nepotism and his clear distrust/ dislike of agents was the main reason the club started on its decline. "No value in the market" was just a way of saying I'm not being screwed by those persons and their spoiled clients. I have tended to believe it was the debt overload that was the problem, and perhaps it played a big part, but the antipathy towards the evolving system, might not only have resulted in poor transfers coming in, but also in a failure to move older players on in a timely fashion, or playing them into the ground (Neville, Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand), a decline in the youth recruitment process, and an undercutting of the whole scouting system.

SAF was a great manager but is it the case that, like many leaders, his strengths ultimately become his weaknesses?

Agree3 Disagree1

08 Sep 2018 17:28:21
Won the league by 11 points in his last season , bloke wasn't perfect but he was one of the greatest .
In years to come he will be viewed as the most important figure in the history of the club.

08 Sep 2018 17:56:47
As great a manager as he was, he found it hard not to let personal issues effect footballing decisions. His son’s agency, the business with the horse, the appointment of Moyes, the reluctance to deal with certain agents, it all adds up. I think that’s one of the draw backs of a manager having so much control and influence at a club.

In terms of the youth academy, that’s more down to business decisions to not invest to keep the academy at a top level. Ed001 has spoken in the past about United skimping on coaches and wages, and using the reputation to sell average young players for inflated fees.

The truth is that toward the end Fergie wasn’t really planning for the future. His team needed a big refresh, and he didn’t want to do that, but he wanted to retire on a high. So he hung onto older players he trusted in the hope they could do it one last time. The no value thing is a product of a few things: the club skimping, Fergie being angry at the rapid rise of fees (particularly agent fees), and the desire to save money for any new manager to rebuild.

08 Sep 2018 17:52:09
Jred, nobody is questioning what he achieved, but you can’t ignore his failings. He ignored the gapping hole in the midfield for years. He caused the situation that allowed the glazers to take over the club. It was obvious that Rio, vidic and evra needed replaced and that jones and smalling weren’t up to it but no action was taken. Valencia was in no way a suitable replacement for ronaldo. Jaap Stam should never have been sold to Lazio. Poor planning lead to us signing how many goal keepers when schmeical left (was it 9) before we signed Edwin who was available when peter retired.

He knew how to motivate his troops and how to win the premier league, but it could be argued that we underachieved in Europe and the FA cup.

Don’t get me wrong I would love a Fergie in charge now and the style of play circa 1997-2008. But he was not perfect and the standard of football and planning declined from 2009 onwards. He was great at reinventing his teams and play, but he was crap at medium and long term planning towards the end.

08 Sep 2018 18:36:00
When that nonsense was going on about Rock Of Gibraltar, he should have been reminded he was an employee of Manchester United and if he wanted to carry on his battle with Maguire and McManus, he was gone as manager and he could do it on his own time.

08 Sep 2018 19:50:16
Write down all the things he did wrong over 20 years and all the things he did right .
(Can't belive huggy has listed faults and ignored all the things he achieved.

Can people remember the club pre fergy when at the start of the season fa cup was the main goal? )
Then do the same for any other manager over 20 years .
Look at the club before he took over and when he left it, title winners by 11 points .
The ed told us that when the glazers first took over they would have nothing to do with agent fees .

He done this wrong he done that wrong and still won the league by 11 points .

08 Sep 2018 20:39:01
No way would SAF recommend Moyes as the first choice. Pretty sure Ancelotti and Mourinho both turned him down first before Moyes was then asked. 😆😆.

08 Sep 2018 22:10:15
Jred, did you miss the line “nobody is questioning what he achieved”. I could sit there and say he could walk on water and turn water into wine, but it simply wouldn’t be true.

He is amongst the best managers ever, but he was not perfect and as I said above acted in his own interests rather than the clubs (something he would not have tolerated from a player) which lead to the glazers taking over.

You bury your head in the sand if you want, but his actions have lead directly to where we are today. That is the good 2 champions leagues and more league titles than the lot down the road, but also the bad. he left a unbalanced aged squad, recommended Moyes. Let’s not forget he is a board member, so in all likelihood was involved in the LVG conversation and the Jose conversation.

We need to recognise where we have gone wrong if we don’t want to make the same mistakes again and improve.

Somebody above asked a sensible question as to whether nepotism contributed to where we are as a club today and I have to say I think it did play part. Fergie earned the right to have more say than any manager in the clubs history, but again as said above he should have been pulled up on the rock of Gibraltar nonsense.

08 Sep 2018 22:22:42
Jred What is the point of playing scintillating football, winning major trophies and then burning down the house?

Yes we won’t the league by 11points. But you forget it was not because we were great. The league was weak that year. And to be honest a lot of the football we played was not good to watch.

My frustration stems from we built up the club to a pinnacle of the team in 2009. With our commercial revenue had we been well managed as a club (not on field activities) we should have kicked on from there, not gone backwards.

Ronaldo left. Ok any team would be worse for losing him, but Valencia really?

Why was a youth set up that provided Scholes, Giggs et al allowed to decline. We were the most successful club in the land, with very deep pockets so why did we not leverage that to attract the best? Why are we having to play catch up now?

08 Sep 2018 22:25:30
Moyes shouldn’t have been in the top 50.

08 Sep 2018 23:32:44
Huggy relax mate. Some people seem to take it as a persinal insult if you say anything negative.
I agree with some of what you wrote.
We all know fergie was one of the greatest ever . Of course he had his faults.
Its ok to talk about those faults its ok to talk about players faults systems faults style faults etc etc.
Its not disloyal its not showing yourself up to be a toxic fan. Its not abuse.
We all know how stubborn and pig headed fergie was qt times. How he fell out with players other coaches the national broadcaster the press, sulked stormed out of press conferences and threatened to take the major shareholders to court over a bloody horse.
God forbid we had a manager that did that sort of thing nowadays.







 

 

 
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