Manchester United banter 80422

 

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23 Aug 2018 08:05:17
Good morning and apologies for long post. I've been trying to figure out where its going wrong at the moment and trying to think how the club can improve. In any business, there are links from mamagement to the staff and even to the dinner ladies. So in a simplistic way, a club should have the following structure:
Owners - commercial executive - football executive (DOF) - manager/ coach - playing staff - scouts.
The links between all the above have to be perfect for a club to function correctly on and off the field. At our club, we have :
Owners- no one can argue that they have provided plenty of funds on the footballing side, and improved the commercial side substantially.
Commercial executive - Woodward. While he's concluded lots of commercial deals, his acumen on the footballing side, is non existent. He's shown poor judgement at appointing managers, players contracts, and even extending Mourinho's contract recently, when he didn't have to. He is a major weak link.
Football executive/ DOF: we don't have one and most top European sides have had the intelligence to appoint one years ago. Major weakness.
Manager/ Coach: Mourinho has won loads of trophies in his time. However, his methods seem to be stuck in the past, he needed to move with the times, instead, he stuck with the same right hand man, when a change would have been preferable. Fergie was superb at this and changed his coaches all the time to keep the playing side fresh and keep up with football trends. In addition, Mourinho's man management is so bad that he's picking fights with a lot of the players, in some instance, justified, but he's also fighting with the board, owners, press and anyone else who dares challenge him. Major weakness.
Players : while we don't have the best players in the world in all positions, we do possess world class players in several positions. Ddg, Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku will walk into any team in the PL. The defense is a big issue, but there again, the manager has had 5 windows to improve the situation and failed spectacularly. Our players seem confused and can't seem to apply themselves at the right moments in matches. Their attitude has been questionable too. Not a major weakness, but a weakness nevertheless.
Scouts: the scouting network was in the process of improving, but suddenly a chief scout who we worked very hard to get onboard, has left less than a year in charge. This is still a major weakness in our club.
So to summarise, the commercial side of the business, seems to have no weaknesses at all. However, the footballing side of the business is in need of a major rehaul if we are to catch and pass the top clubs. It will take time and a lot of hard work, but the sooner we start, the better.

Agree6 Disagree3

23 Aug 2018 09:28:45
AAA you make many good and valid points.

A DoF is a must moving forward but it is probably difficult to do while Mourinho is manager. As it has the potential to cause more tension with Mourinho and possibly make the DoF job particularly difficult.

I am not one to say get rid of Mourinho. However when he does eventually leave then the first appointment needs to be a DoF and then a head coach.

Again I am no lover of Woodward but he had an independent report commissioned on Utd’s coaching and scouting system towards the end of LVG’s spell as manager. This lead to the implementation of a whole new scouting system and changes to the youth setup. It also identified the need for a DoF, so Woodward knows his limitations to be fair.

He just got it wrong when he recently stated publicly that Utd wouldn’t bring in any players due to high fees and no value at the end of the window.

Our defence still needs an overhaul despite Mourinho spending nearly £70M on two new CB’s. However he is to blame for some of this and if he wants Maguire so much why wasn’t he buying him from Hull 12 months ago for £17M? He seems to only work with established players. Despite all this we had one of the best defensive records in the PL but we do not have either a natural leader at the back or a settled CB pairing.

Great that he has new coaches at Utd but will he listen too them and will they have an impact in changing the way Utd play.

The biggest issue is our style of play. The fans hate it and it looks like the players struggle with it as well.

23 Aug 2018 09:57:51
I am pretty sure that Ed Woodward alone has not appointed the last three managers so it's a bit unfair to blame him solely. I seem to remember a certain Mr Ferguson recommending Moyes, and Woodward would not select new managers bon his own.
Also, are Lukaku and Sanchez really world class? And neither of them would will into the City team.
I agree with most of the rest of your post though.

23 Aug 2018 10:09:29
Good post AAA.

Betty - I agree that Lukaku is not World Class, but he is World Class if we played in a system that suits his specific game perfectly - we don't. I have no idea why we signed him.

Sanchez - Was world class, City wanted him. He has been ruined like so many players that have come to our club in recent years.

I agree on the manager front, Woody is the fall guy, but it will have been a collective decision and in fairness I can see why all three coaches were hired. Don't agree with it, but many of our fans argued to the death for LVG and are doing likewise for Jose now - so it's their performance that has been dire (like many of the players), the decision to hire them was not everyones cup of tea, but good arguments can be made as to why they were hired.

The contract extension in January was the biggest fiasco in football. We were playing awfully as well at the time (when aren't we), so it just smacked of desperation.

23 Aug 2018 15:23:41
@Beast

I think Jose wanted to sign Perisic/ Willian and full backs like Sandro to put in the crosses for Lukaku. He is a beast in the air in the box. He's wanted Milinkovic Savic who, from what I've seen is good at spotting strikers' runs and playing through balls to them, something which would suit Lukaku.

I think Jose knew what he wanted to do when he signed Lukaku. Its just that we haven't managed to get the players to support him.

23 Aug 2018 16:00:05
Great points Redfaith. Seems like there are too many people trying to make decisions and we end up with compromises.

23 Aug 2018 16:14:23
Thanks for the replies gents. It goes to show that the footballing side of the business is shambolic and needs an overhaul.
We can't blame woodward or mourinho or the players for everything, but collectively, the club seems to be stuck in a time warp from the footballing side.
Things have to change, we had a managet for 25 years with unrepresented success. However, success breeds contempt, and that's exactly the situation we find ourselves in.

23 Aug 2018 16:37:32
It needs to change and the fact we are looking at bringing someone in at least is a step in the right direction. But I think commercial and the football side should be separated.

23 Aug 2018 18:24:55
I said a month ago that the board had 3 choices.
The manager wanted rid of certain players that either don't fit his systems, ethos, personality or mentality.
He wanted to replace them with players he thought could fit in with his criteria.
So the 3 choices were
1 sack him and back the players
2 back him and let he do what he does
Or sort of fudhe it and try to appease him and the players hoping both would improve.
I think the 3rd option was the most dangerous potentially the most disastrous and if it all goes pear shaped a lot more expensive if we don't make top 4.
Jose is not going to change too much. If he can't motivate and get the best out of them then you either change the players or manager if they can't work together.
You don't just hope it will work out.
If you hire a man to do the job give him the tools he wants or needs don't ask him to do the job with tools he can't get to do the job the way he wants it.
So if we change coaches and get poch for example will everyone be moaning when valencia and young are doing what trippier and davis or rose do?
Will poch be a crap coach necaise he can't turn valencia into trippier?
Will poch want a new rb?
Will poch make lukaku as mobile as kane? If not is he a crap coach?
Ppch won't change his ways he will get players in who will do the job he needs done?
Whoever our next coach will still need to bring on 4 or 5 players.
I get the whole our style is crap. Jose is negative argument but no other manager could have got higher than 2nd last season with this squad.
I can't remember any other jose winning team being as boring as our yeam are. So if he got who he wanted and they played as he wanted i think things would be a lot better. Not perfect but a lot better.
If i was jose i would resign. His bosses don't believe in him so and they are not aligned so i would not work under those conditions.

23 Aug 2018 19:34:36
I find us frustrating under jm . Second place and a cup final was no disaster, but so many times when we lost it felt like we died wondering . It's frustrating as the palace and city away games after awful first halves we looked good when we finally just went for it and had a go out of necessity .
Whatever the personnel it still feels like watching a team with the handbrake on, we all have players in mind we would change in an ideal world but we do have some really gifted players aswell and it should look better.

23 Aug 2018 20:43:14
We looked and played just like the last Chelsea team Jose won the title with .
We would be playing better footy in a couple of month under poch .

Could Jose get tripper to the level he is Eriksson in fact I could go on and on . Spurs are another great example of a manager getting the best out of his players .
Could poch get bailly lindelof pogba martial lukaku Sanchez Rasford playing to there potential .
If he could we would look and be a far better team than we are at the moment.

23 Aug 2018 21:24:35
I think Poch will get the best out of our players. As for kane being more mobile than Lukaku, ken, i think lukaku is a lot better player than kane. But kane gets the service.

23 Aug 2018 23:06:15
AAA.
I never mentioned footballing ability. Kane gets around the attacking half a lot more and covers more ground makes more runs mire succesful passes and more goals.
I think lukaku would look better as our whole team would with trippier and davis. I think spurs would be a lot worse off and have much less attacking threat with valencia and young as their full backs no matter what poch does.
Jred jose has had cole and marcelo widely regarded as 2 of the best lb in the world he had zanetti widely regarded as one of the best rb's so he can and has done it.

Would spurs be as good a team if you replaced their full backs with b alencia and young. I don't think so because no matter what poch did valencia and young can't do what they do.
How many passes does erickson play to trippier in the final third? Lots i'd say. How often do they overlap son co? Lots i'd say. Does pogba have such options? no i'd say do sanchez martial rashford and mata have that support? No i'd say.
Team game our best players don't have the right supporring cast to shine imo.
Some of that is down to jose and some down to the fact that those guys can't play like many want them to they are just not able to.

24 Aug 2018 09:13:53
Again Ken spurs are playing well as a team . That's the sign of a good manager .
I can't remember many people lauding tripper a season or 2 ago but he has fitted in great, just like a lot of the other spurs players . It's not a coincident. Would he of done that under Jose? Look at the farce we have seen with Shaw another player who played great under poch.

Son is doing well is he a far better player than Miki? Is Eriksson far better than pogba a or Sanchez? Not imo but poch has him playing at the top of his game .
Davis or aurier you failed to mention are the other fullback

Good management by poch, people see a team playing well and think it's easy all there players are great . but the truth is all there players are playing well.
Ours aren't.

24 Aug 2018 18:24:03
Correct jred our best players are not playing great because they don't have the same outlets or support that theirs do.

25 Aug 2018 07:43:26
Yet we still finished above Spurs by several points last season who also won nothing again. Just sayin to temper the discussion a little.

25 Aug 2018 09:07:18
Ken
Lol yer that's what it is. I wish u had been my manager excuse after excuse.







 

 

 
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