29 Jul 2018 08:10:59
When will fans realise there is a deeper problem than who is manager of the club?
It wouldn't matter if Pep was manager, the problem is above that. Our manager is having to publicly beg for transfer activity and that is something we must not ignore. Let us remember who the board, the owners, Woodward appointed as SAF's successor, likely because he was used to working on a small budget, remember Woodward telling us no major "Re-tooling" (spending) was needed, then remember the Glazer/ SAF years of no value in the market, then remember LvG said he wasn't given who he asked for, now Jose begging, it's there, an underlying problem.
Now when the game is cash rich, when we are the second most valuable sports brand, our manager is having to beg publicly for transfer action. Jose wants two from now on and I suspect wanted more but now only expects one more to come in. There seems to be restraints, tight restraints and no strategy. This is nothing short of disgraceful. Maybe the owners and their puppet Woodward will buy in the next few days, but the signs are the club is in turmoil at the top. We are going to start to fade as a force with this direction from the owners. People direct their anger at the manager but really it is letting the ones causing this mess off the hook, the owners and Woodward. I want them out of our club, I want them gone to the point where I would accept mid table for several years to get rid of them. They may prove me wrong in the next 10 days but seeing our lack of strategy and our manager having to beg is unacceptable.
29 Jul 2018 08:20:52
Agree with all that Redman. We will get a couple in this coming fortnight. 😆😆.
29 Jul 2018 08:48:39
I think it’s a combination, We have spent a lot of money in recent years but we have spent iit badly; Jose has bought players he wants rid of or doesn’t play, and it seems he is focusing on ageing players to bring in. He also has an air of despondency similar to Eeyorw, don’t under estimate the impact that will be having around the place.
The last 2 managers have had a lot of money to spend, just spent it badly. Add to that Jose can’t seem to get the best out of what he l has.
{Ed025's Note - you never know AJH he might surprise us all by smiling and playing free flowing attractive football culminating in utd winning the league mate?..
29 Jul 2018 08:53:04
Maybe the problem is deeper, maybe it isn't. Ultimately all we as supporters have to go on is the football we watch. We don't know what to believe with PR machines behind everything, trying to convince us black is white. There are big problems throughout the club though, I agree mate.
Which signings were Jose's which were the clubs? I don't know, but I do know that very few have worked as intended and a hell of a lot of money has been wasted. Jose seems to think he is playing Football Manager the computer game, I haven't seen him develop anybody of note, correct failings in peoples games, he has not managed the problems just bitched about them like anybody can. I want to sign X players to solve the problems - how about you manage with the tools you were given - the tools are better than what you are doing with them currently?
He may have some legitimate complaints, I'd like to have seen better and more players come in and more players leave - but we don't know what is being said. Not many of us would have chosen to extend Fellaini's contract, who was behind that, Jose or the club? Most of us don't see Willian, Perisic and Maguire as the type of players to lift us the several levels needed, but from what we read Jose might - that does not install confidence in his judgement for me!
All I know for sure is that our football hasn't looked like improving during his tenure. Our rivals do look like they are improving. Our squad seems unhappy in general and has been that way for 2 years, the omens don't look good for us fans. We can excuse everything if we want to, maybe Jose, the players and the club are at fault collectively (they are in my opinion) . We can't change the club quickly, we can't realistically change the players quickly - but we can change the manager quickly - and believe me a quick change is needed if we are not to have another hard, grumpy, boring season.
We have the manager that was sacked by Chelsea, not the manager that was once top of the game. Sad, but we had the same thing with LVG - we just got them both after their sell-by-date. Time to learn and move on, not prolong the misery for everybody (fans, manager, player and I imagine the board - even rival fans want the old Utd back, it has gotten that depressing watching and reading about us) .
29 Jul 2018 09:06:38
Even if Jose walks i think we'll still have the same problem, owners are simply not interested in winning trophies, how on earth can Fred be the only first team player signed with 11 days of the window left? Where's the LB CB RW? Jose has even come out and said he's likely to only get one more player, we could have Pep, Poch, Sarri whoever it is and we'd have the same problem, the board can't be trusted to get the manager's targets. Look at FSG and the owners at City, they want their teams to be the best, the Glazers though? WOW! Have they ever put a penny of their own money in the club? that's a genuine question, absolutely rinsed this club for the last decade for their own gain!
29 Jul 2018 09:13:52
While I agree with that it does let Jose off the hook a bit. We’ve spent a lot of money since he arrived and when you look at players like Pogba, Lindelof, Mkhtaryan, Sanchez that he brought in and players like Martial and Shaw who were already there, that’s a lot of expensive footballers he’s failed to get the best out of .
Maybe it’s time for him to do his job and coach the squad he’s got . At times it looks like the only coaching that’s done is regarding our defensive set up and the attacking players are more or less left to their own devices .
29 Jul 2018 09:15:11
Agree with you redman that the problems with the club are deeper than the manager, we need a DoF or Sporting Director or whatever Title people want to come up with, we need someone who understands football and has a vision for the club that is longer than the just the next season.
But that doesn't mean we can absolve mourinho of his failures, he wants players fine, but can you trust him right now? He wants woodward to spend 60-70mn on a cb when his last 2 cb's signings haven't even been able to dislodge smalling and jones from the First 11. He wants a big money top end winger, when his last big player on whom we spent 100mn wants to leave because mourinho has mismanaged him. Mourinho has spent 400+ mn but we haven't bought a single fb who can as of now replace either valencia or young.
The season hasn't even started yet and half our team isn't even back to training and he has already thrown martial, valencia and woodward under the bus, we are right now on the verge of the usual mourinho 3rd season meltdown. That isn't down to woodward or glazers, that's on the grumpy one.
29 Jul 2018 09:33:03
Since sir Alex retired the club have spent a significant amount of money, off the top of my head these players all came in from moyes onwards (please ignore spellings) - Pogba lukaku Matic Sanchez miki lindof Dalot Fred Rojo di Maria swiney falanie martial blind Herrera mata. Please don’t get me wrong as I am not a fan of the Glazers but the above list evidences that the club has spent a huge amount on transfers over the last few years. I agree there seems to be no clear stratagey when it comes to ins and outs but I think it’s a bit much to state that the current and past managers needed to beg for money.
I have stated recently that I am pleased with some aspects of what our current managers has achieved and am feeling optimistic about the upcoming season, however I would like to add that in my opinion he is very devisive and his constant need to moan during interviews is getting slightly tiresome. Mourhino is a top class managers, maybe he should be focusing those skills to develop some of the younger talent within the club (martial) instead of requesting the club spend x amount of millions on a 29 year old who is looking or one last big pay day.
29 Jul 2018 09:39:49
Red man, I completely agree that the owners and members of the board are a serious problem. There seems to be no idea about where the club is heading or what the clubs aims are beyond financial growth.
And I do believe they are in danger of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. Our club has "brand appeal" due to a combination of our history, and our precieved image as a team that plays football in a cavalier exciting way.
If you aren't creating history then people lose interest the longer it has been since your glorious past.
And if no one wants to watch your club because the football is so poor, then why would sponsors pay so much money if they aren't tapping into such a large audience?
Jose isn't everything that is wrong with our side, but he is responsible for how the team plays. And no one but hardcore fans will sit through continuous rubbish football, especially if there is no silverware at the end of it.
As for him having to beg for new signings. This is his third summer transfer window. And he has been backed to the tune of over 400m so far.
However, if you were honest and you were investing in a company, and the head of that company kept making poor purchases with your investment would you continue to offer up your money?
So far Jose has signed-
Zlatan on huge wages, he was decent but has since left. Value for money? Probably not.
Mkhitaryan, signed and sold as he was deemed not good enough. Value for money? No.
Bailly, good first season, injured and in and out of the side second season. Value for money? Yeah.
Pogba, signed for a world record fee, with eye watering additional costs that put off everyone else interested in him. Jose now wants him sold. Value for money? No, not yet.
Lindelof, signed after a tip from Jose's friends in Portugal. Has been said he doesn't have a long term future at the club, and the club is still looking for another CB after already signing two. Value for money? No.
Matic, high fee paid for a near 30 year old. Has had an excellent season, although he clearly tired towards the end of the season. Value for money? Yeah.
Lukaku, signed for a huge fee, scored 16 league goals, 25 goals in total. Good return. Value for money? Probably will be, but not on the basis of one season.
Sanchez, has had a poor first 6 months. Value for money? Jury's still out.
So out of 400m and 8 players only Bailly, Lukaku and Matic can be considered total successes. With the jury still out on Pogba and Sanchez.
That's not a great success rate, and would certainly make me think twice about letting a man behind those signings have another 200m.
29 Jul 2018 09:49:58
Wilcey1
A bit much to state the manager needs to beg for money? He gave a list of five names and only one has arrived. We do not have the quality to win the league, for me a minimum of two very high quality additions are needed and that may just see us stay in the top four. Maybe we should start crowdfunding to help the owners.
What is the Glazers ambition? To win the top prizes or to increase the value of their asset? The answer seems to be they will do enough to keep us in with a chance of challenging and aim for top four but nowhere near going the extra mile to get alongside Madrid and the elite.
29 Jul 2018 09:50:32
Shappy - Bit generous giving Bailly a 'total success' tick imo, maybe even Matic. Bailly looked great first few games, but the manager clearly isn't happy with him and he has barely played since. Matic started well as well, but seemed to plod through the season after Christmas offering little going forward or defensively - for £50m and at the hub of everything in midfield I'd expect a lot more!
Lukaku has looked promising - but let's not forget he scored 26 league goals for Everton the season before he signed and he only managed 16 league goals for us last season. We are a better team than Everton, so that looks like a player going backwards based on goals and frankly he handicaps most other things despite being a hard worker and trying to link (failing more often than not) .
29 Jul 2018 09:58:21
Sorry shappy look at city and pep. I get you dislike Mourinho but you can’t give it the would you trust Home ith more money speech.
Bravo, Nolito, stones, Danilo. Yet when these players underperform he went out and spent a fortune to rectify that. Us on the other hand whilst we have spent, we still penny pinch on players. Toby and Peresic being prime examples. That hasn’t happened at city, and I think at board level they are desperate to dominate football. I don’t get that impression with us.
29 Jul 2018 09:59:35
Shappy
What we don’t know is whether all the names were first choice on Jose’s list.
If the Glazers/ Woodward are thinking twice about supporting the manager, don’t agree with what we need and therefore fudging signing the right quality of player, then they should sack the manager immediately and put in a manager who they agree with. At least that would show a strategy. However, they are likely worried they may not get into the cash cow of Champions League spots with a different manager so they fudge it giving us the worst position of all.
29 Jul 2018 10:03:34
I'd compare us to a rich man wanting 6 new Ferraris, the bank manager says it's one Ferrari or 6 family cars . I'd buy the Ferrari and save up for the next one, in a few year IL have my 6 Ferraris .
The squad looks totally unbalanced to me a huge number of people to play CB and yet next to no natural width and short on creative midfielders . I've never really seen Fred so maybe he does that I have no clue. Maybe that's harsh on pogba but I see him more as a big athletic midfielder more than a Silva or kdb type .
Jose has the record of a winner but I have to be honest lots of times I struggle to see what we are trying to do, I hope if we don't buy fullbacks we don't just keep doing the same thing in wanting width from FB area as we know they aren't that good at that .
29 Jul 2018 10:13:40
Jose has had a huge amount of money to spend already and given 2 of his signings Zlatan and mhiki have left already and it seems as if Pogba could have left if we had a buyer. Add to that 2 of his other signings Bailley and Lindelof hardly get a game it is quite understandable why the board won’t give him more money to waste. I’d rather they saved it for the next manager, this season already looks a write off given Jose’ demeanour, already making excuses just like he did at his final season at Chelsea. Fully expect him out by Xmas maybe earlier.
29 Jul 2018 10:15:58
Jose has a record as a winner but as Beast said maybe we’ve got him when he’s past his sell by date .
When you look at teams like City and Liverpool who press high and play with so much energy, it makes Jose’s wat of doing things seem a bit played out .
Maybe part of his frustration and his constant moaning is the fact that what he’s always done just isn’t working as well as it used to.
{Ed025's Note - hes a bit of a dinosaur for me bilko, his teams have never been good to watch and i have said from the start he was a bad fit for united mate..
29 Jul 2018 11:09:30
Life after fergy some managers work out some don't.
Jose got the sack 3 points above relegation it doesn't always work out.
Hopefully the next manager gets it right.
29 Jul 2018 11:16:55
We would look a far far better team with pep .
Some managers work out some don't that's football .
Some United fans have been spoilt thinking the good times will never end .
Shows what a great manager fergy was, Jose couldn't lace his boots.
29 Jul 2018 11:32:03
There is a bigger problem than who the manager is. The Glazers have haven't paid a penny for the club or put a penny in. They don't care for the club or the fans, all they care about is the money Utd generate. To them our great club is just a cash cow, and there doing the milking. The money spent on transfers isn't coming out of their pockets but is reliant on Woodward doing another commercial venture.
Where the manager is responsible is for the playing style, formation and for motivating the players. Most players that have come in under Mourhino have gone backwards, and the ones he inherited have too. We need a manager, who will adopt the club's attacking style and flair. I want to be entertained, and I'm not at the moment. I've not been since SAF left.
It pains me to say it but we need to change manager, we also need a director of football, someone who will respect the history of out great club and uphold those traditions.
Rant over.
29 Jul 2018 12:46:23
At least one top 6 manager will be gone before Christmas. Who knows it could be Jose or Klopp or even Pep. The pressure is massive on them all but a poor start could quite easily result in the exit door "Every point is now a prisoner". This is going to be the best title chase ever-i can't wait for it to get started 😆😆.