14 May 2018 21:40:06
I've found it an interesting debate that's been going on, on here about Jose. I hope we don't all become entrenched in our views and stick to them no matter what .
If he's not yr cup of tea but he buys a few players and the performances improve then I hope we all root for him .
If it gets to Christmas and it's pretty clear we are nowhere near and it's still turgid to watch then I hope people say that's enough of this .
I think both points of view are valid his track record is that of a winner but then again we all have eyes and it's not pretty.
Everyone wants us to be successful we just disagree how that will happen for the record I'm not sitting totally on the fence I can't stand the way we play but I'd not fire a bloke for coming second and getting to a cup final but I would say to him if you want to play that way then you really do have to win things and compete for the major honours to justify it .
14 May 2018 21:50:15
Good post, mate.
14 May 2018 23:02:49
Both sides of the fence are correct in their own way. I think a lot of our problems don't stem from Jose but he often exacerbates them. Take the style of play issue for example. In Jose's favour the squad is still heavily unbalanced and short in key areas. We have no top level full backs and our centre backs need protection. Moreover, our right hand side is non existent offensively.
But, Jose has refused to develop Luke Shaw, whatever problems the lad has why can't Jose be the one to compromise and try and get through to him in a different manner than his usual 'push the player for a response'? Jose could have pushed for more players in the transfer market. Lastly, Mkhi was probably our best option on the right but Jose got rid of him, again he was a player who needed an arm round the shoulder not public humiliation to motivate him.
14 May 2018 23:40:11
Good point Slate and i also agree with Nathaniel. As i said in a previous post further down, its his man management and his belief that his way or no way attitude is his downfall. A good manager is not one who doesn't listen, but one who listens and makes the right decisions. Mourinho to his detriment belongs to the former characteristic.
15 May 2018 07:37:05
Must be all those trophies weighing him down that means he always makes bad decisions.
15 May 2018 08:43:47
Luke Shaw is a professional athlete not fit enough to play matches. How is this Jose’s fault. He’s an adult and should take responsibility for his lack of application and effort because he has all the talent. Miki simply was a bad buy it happens under every manager at every club.
15 May 2018 08:53:51
Ken, no one is saying Jose hasn't been successful. The question is has Jose become a victim of his own success?
Jose has always been arrogant, but has his success made him so arrogant that he can't learn from his mistakes as he doesn't believe he makes any?
Jose has won the title in his second year at every club bar ours, his last job ended with him leaving the club he took to the title close to the relegation zone.
He doesn't seem to have the same zest he used to, his interviews tend to come in one of two options. Sulky Jose who points out everyone messed up bar him or gloating Jose saying see I proved you wrong, or this is what I've won. No jokes, no smiles.
This is not the same Jose as before, so we can't say he will definitely have the same success as before.
At some point even the greatest become a spent force, I think it's safe to say there is more success in Jose's past then there will likely be in his future.
He is still a very good manager, he has just slipped into yesterday's man, as younger, fresher men have replaced him. The future success belongs to them. Maybe it makes more sense hitching our wagon onto someone on the up rather than someone on the down.
15 May 2018 09:19:42
Eric, Shaw has the exact same issue Rooney had all of his career. He needs games to play himself into fitness. Wayne would come back at the start of every preseason over weight and would need to play 3-4 games in a row to reach peak fitness. When he came back from injury it would take nearly a month for him to be back up to speed. That's one of the reasons his goals often came in spurts.
Shaw is the same, he starts a game does well but tires towards the end. Then he doesn't play for a month and the same issue happens again. When Shaw played 3-4 games in a row for us by the time he got to the 3rd/ 4th game he was close to or was our man of the match in most games. Then Jose dropped him again.
Shaw could be great for us, and I fully expect him to do very well wherever he goes as long as he can steer clear of injury. He is unlikely to a player who plays at their peak into their mid 30's but he could like Rooney be a player who shines bright at a younger age then fades younger than others.
15 May 2018 09:20:45
LVG came with a pretty decent CV. People could still see his best days were behind him, from watching the way Holland played in the World Cup alone.
15 May 2018 09:27:24
And you gather that opinion even if you state it as fact based on what shappy?
You don't know him or have never met him and you have no idea what he says behind closed doors. For every player that says bad about him there will be 2 that sing his praises.
You really have no idea what mistakes he makes or what advice he takes. There was no more arrogant a manager than fergie in many respects. Or no more arrogant a man than pep. If you Ever get to the very top in your career after your studies you will probably have some arrogance about you then.
But you have no idea what it takes to become one of the best in the world at what you do. Most of us don't.
Your bias is very evident in your posts and remarks which clouds your judgements. The reality is none of us have the expertise to make such outlandish remarks. But it doesn't stop us doing it😂
You love an 'I told you so' but you are as often wrong as you are right on this page.
15 May 2018 09:49:23
Top post ken. Shappy you simply dislike Jose and that is clouding your judgement on him. Every top manager has an ego and arrogance about their philosophy or how football should be played. For me pep is the best manager in the league. But he is also the most arrogant and stubborn. If it was not for an open chequebook he would be nowhere near where he is now. In his first season it was very clear that city did not have the right players to play out from the back yet he still did it and they were poor that season. Fast forward now the guy stuck to his guns and they have had a magnificent season. Whose to say Jose won’t get this side playing better once he sorts out the defence properly? You are almost hoping he fails so you can say I told you so. I am backing the manager because that is the right thing to do. I don’t agree with everything he does especially the way he has singled out shaw. But we also do not see what goes on behind the scenes. Fans are too quick to jump on Jose and blame him for being a narcissist and the devil incarnate. If he fails next year I will happily take the ‘I told you so’ from mourinho out brigade because I don’t mind being proven wrong. But at least I am backing the manager for as long as he is here because he is one of us whilst he is managing the club. Some may argue he does not get the club or the traditions blah blah blah but we protect or own at united. And when he leaves my loyalty to him will go and then it will be behind the next manager. What chance does Jose have when even his own fans are waiting for him to fail? Whose to say when the new manager comes in that this cycle will not repeat again if we are not playing city esque football?
15 May 2018 11:17:41
Slate151 (OP), I think the beauty of this site is that the views of others who post here can be very persuasive. Before we had this latest debate on Jose I wanted him gone this summer. However, I have genuinely been convinced to be patient and give it another year.
Why? Well, because people have pointed out:
1) He's a serial winner
2. The squad has needed massive changes and two years is not long enough to rebuild
3. The first few years under Fergie were pretty dire.
4. Stability is better than constant change
5. There are perhaps reasons why we are not playing more attacking football yet.
Also, because I'm generally a positive person. I don't like to be negative. So, I have genuniely been convinced to put aside my dislikes and doubts and give Jose a chance to deliver. I'm even thinking that for the reasons I've listed above and barring some Jose self implosion, we should give him at least another two seasons and perhaps a full five years.
Of course, just because something happened in the past doesn't mean it's going to continue into the future. However, we can learn from history. So, I think that we can see Mourinho the same was as Moyes and LVC, in which case we should recognise that he will never come good and get rid ASAP. Or, we should see him as a Fergie figure and give him plenty of time and patience to do what he needs to do to get us back to the top again.
There's no point in flim flamming in the middle. That's just indecisive and confusing. So, if Jose is not a Moyes/ LVG, let's see if he can tap into his inner Fergie.
Go Jose or go home!
15 May 2018 11:36:41
Really good post manc man.
15 May 2018 12:16:58
Mourinho as a Fergie figure, whatever next.
15 May 2018 12:21:40
Manc
The guy finished 2 Nd in the league and is in the cup final, I don't think he can be sacked for that, however the performances have been dire lots of times .
Posters have pointed out if he changes a few players that will get better, well I'm all for seeing if it does and hope it does . However if he changes some and it's still dire to watch then the it's the players thing goes out the window . I don't understand what's wrong with let's just see before forming yr opinion on the long term .
15 May 2018 16:19:38
Sorry Shappy. Shaw is fat for a footballer and can’t stay fit or even try to. Ship him out.
15 May 2018 18:17:48
Thanks Ken, he better bloody well deliver tho!