Manchester United banter 79184

 

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13 May 2018 18:05:10
Thank god that’s over. Terrible season, terrible performances and terrible atmosphere surrounding the club. Second place all things considered quite amazing, especially considering how good media tells us clubs beneath us are. If Jose can achieve that and a cup success during such a season then maybe he is still the special one, as that’s the worst runner-up team I’ve ever seen in the prem.

Some shrewd investments, good pre season and willingness to let the horses run free on the back of that may yet make this season worthwhile. I really hope everybody now gets behind the manager and stops using certain players to bash him over the head with. The guy is making progress.

Agree12 Disagree10

13 May 2018 19:49:31
I think that is unfair to Jose and the team. Despite not having a settled defence he has managed to make sure we didn't concede many goals. Shoring up the defence meant we had a lack of balance and options further upfield which was exacerbated by us having no natural wingers. He wanted to buy Perisic but was denied this for whatever reason. In other seasons we may well have won the league with our points total. It's also not Jose's fault that quite a few of the players he inherited did not perform as they should have the Sevilla game comes to mind as a prime example. He is attempting to instill a winking mentality back into the team and is pragmatic. He knows teams only win things with a strong defensive base from which attacks later can come. Even Pep recognised this by buying a whole back five unit. Pep bought two fullbacks two centre halves and. Goalkeeper If Jose gets the men he wants in this transfer window then next season we will be much more able to attack.

13 May 2018 19:59:18
Timbo, Timbo, Timbo, is like to agre with your post but I can’t. Here’s my issue. United is a club built on a long tradition of attacking football. But more than that it has always been a ‘decent’ club, much in the way Arsenal are and Chelsea aren’t. SAF understood this, bought into it and built on it. United would scout players but also scout their personality and attitude as well as their playing ability.

From Busby, through Docherty, Atkinson and then SAF, the football was attacking, the you score 4 we’ll score 5 kind of approach. Sexton was an aberration best forgotten.

And so to Jose. Everyone comments on the dullness of the football but the bigger issue for me is how he is slowly destroying the soul of our club. His ego knows no bounds, he is a narcissistic bully who seeks to blame others for his own feelings. He is being left behind by younger better Managers and he is lashing out. ‘But we finished second’ I hear you say. Indeed we did, but I believe that if we had Pep, or Klopp, or Poch managing us then we would have won the League, or certainly run City a lot closer.

Jose is yesterday’s man clinging to the last vestiges of his talent by his fingernails. I am not convinced he will be here next year but if he is, he won’t see out the season. He was the wrong man for us and he remains the wrong man for us. Our history, tradition, and culture are more important than this yob.

13 May 2018 20:01:12
Jose simply has to win the league next season imo, money again will be spent this summer and with the style of play in question and unlikely to change too much only a league or Cl success will be enough.

13 May 2018 20:31:38
Jose = Born winner 😆😆.

13 May 2018 20:31:57
Tony whilst I agree we won’t win the league under Jose I think you are being abit dramatic about Jose’s ego destroying the soul of the club. Forgive me if it is tongue in cheek. This club has gone through so much such as the Munich disaster and still stands strong and true today. It has gone through the turbulent times under Moyes and lvg. Yes things ain’t Rosie at the moment but they are not as bad as everyone is making out. The football is woeful but with reinforcements we have reasons to be optimistic next season. I think we just need to win the cup and enjoy the summer off. Quite frankly it is pointless discussing whether you want Jose in or out because he is going to be here for at least the next year. The football will not be how we wish it to be. But I expect us to improve and with a stronger defence and midfield I think performances will be better. Tbh 2 years ago I would never have seen us finish in second place with 4th being a reason to celebrate. Yes that is not what we as united fans are accustomed to but times have changed. We aren’t top dogs in England at the moment and we have 5 other rivals who will spend a shed load and improve tenfold. I’m confident that we will rise to the occasion and improve next year. There is a lot to look forward to.

13 May 2018 20:38:27
@hendonred, I’m giving Jose as much time and credit as I can muster, but I think you’re going too far. He’s had the tools at hand to do a far better job performance wise.

@AJH, lol. That leads to the problem, Jose is so divisive, and worse still it doesn’t take much to become fickle and jump camps. I’m not suggesting you’re fickle by the way, but I have friends who on any given day could be pro or con. Jose simply gets my vote for next season because I truly believe that right now ‘we’ have invested two years in Jose and he needs the third season to consolidate his plan - whatever it is - in the hope it becomes fruitful. That said I don’t like Jose’s ideas so far, however his CV deserves a chance. As such I’m not pro Jose I’m pro not changing manager at the moment.

That said I don’t see Jose getting sacked as long as we stay in Europe. That does suck, as we’re starting to smell like Arsenal in that respect. My gut still tells me Jose could be with us a while, especially if he can get one or two more players on the pitch to run through walls for him. We have Lukaku, who I believe would, but that’s it. If he can get Terry, Lampard, and Makalele type players as his generals then he’ll stay much longer. Right now he doesn’t have a chief-whip on the pitch.

. but hey I could be talking b******s! 😂.

13 May 2018 21:11:03
AJH

How would you appraise SAF’s first few years, particularly in line with your assertion that attacking football was a priority?

You feel with Klopp or Poch in charge that we would have won the league or come much closer, what do you base this on? Neither finished above us. There is more to it than fancy football.

If we are a decent club “the way that Arsenal and Chelsea aren’t”, why did we sack a manager after 10 months and another after they won the FA cup when Arsenal stood by their manager for years even though unsuccessful?

I hear such assertions yet don’t hear an alternative, a few fancy names, the latest flavour of the month. No thought process on how the club move forward, how people will feel when they bring in this mythical being who plays heavenly football and wins trophies whilst resolves the issues brought on through years of not making the correct decisions. Yet they won’t, it will be 12 months if not less until the next set of moaning.

Our history tradition etc, appointed a Moyes, a Sexton, a McGuiness. I have watched our history and tradition bring us two European cups in my memory whilst Liverpool have brought them 5, Bayern, Real even more. We haven’t embraced a modern mentality that brought us in line with the European giants like Real, we spout nonsense about tradition, when a bit more tactical nous at times would have brought us more European success.

I think Jose will give us a base for the next manager, put that manager in a position that SAF should have left but didn’t. Yesterday’s man? Too many think they know tomorrow’s man whilst not understanding the size of the challenge we have.

In 12 months Jose will be under pressure to show real progress, that I understand but the history of United is not that of Chelsea as you said, we if we are that decent club they will talk to Jose, set him objectives and talk to him about planning but also give him another year to make a difference.

I can see pragmatic that Jose offers, yes it can be frustrating but what might we have won if we had that option as well as gung ho?

13 May 2018 21:14:34
Park mate, I’m deadly serious. Our history and tradition is unrivalled and his behaviour does not fit. Sir Bobby was right but unfortunately we have Woodward making the decisions.

We are the richest football club ithe eoeld (revenue generating) but in recent years it has been run like a pub team. When SAF retired we needed a Manager proven at the top, with European experience, who had managed big egos. Who did we get? Moyes, who ticked none of thise boxes. That was a disaster so we quickly moved on and apponted LVG, he ticked all the boxes but was a long way past his best. And so we looked again and Woody signed up Jose. This year, Jose mentions PSG and suddenly Woody is offering him a new contract.

Woody is a marketing man who generates cash for the company but how on earth did he become chairman as he is not a football man and seems to get a hard on at the chance of signing a big name. I guarantee you that if Bale is available Woody will sign him.

The owners are happy as we are back in the Champions League so the cash keeps rolling in. But our club is in danger. Think about Chelsea and what an awful bunch they are. When did that start? That’s right, after Jose joined. I heard he has been asked to behave a little better and if that’s true then he won’t be happy with that. His assistant of 17 years has suddenly upped and left, something is not right.

I will say it again. Pep, Klopp, and Poch would have got more out of this squad than Jose has.

13 May 2018 21:45:43
Red Man, I respect your unflinching support for the Grumpy One but a man of your years must feel the damage that is being done. I hated the football LVG plays b T I always felt he respected the club, I think Jose thinks only of himself.

I said we are a decent club like Arsenal are, and Chelsea aren’t and I agree that we have not been behaving that way recently, which leads us back to Woodward. I share your desire for stability but it doesn’t change my view that Jose should never have been allowed near our club.

Every appointment is a risk but it seems we keep making ones that don’t stand up to scrutiny. Someone asked last week if we would be happy winning the league playing like this. My answer is no. It’s not just about stats, I look at City and Liverpool and I am envious of the way they play. I want my heart to beat faster, my pulse to race. I live in hope.

13 May 2018 21:54:25
That is a fantastic post Redman hats off to you. Fair enough Tony I do see where you are coming from and you do make some really good points. I can understand your frustration with Jose and his ethos. His ethos in many ways is the polar opposite of uniteds. Pep would have fit better. But I feel you are doing a disservice to Jose. The guy is a winner. He has won countless number of trophies playing his way. Problem is he needs the right players to play his system otherwise it is mind numbingly painful at times to watch. But you give him the players and he wins. History proves this. My point is it is more damaging to sack him and go through another rebuilding process. We need someone ruthless who will get rid of the players who are simply not mentally good enough or not good enough talent wise. Name me a better person out there that can do that? I cannot think of anyone. In my opinion it is important for Jose to finish his 3 years here and then we should look to appoint a manager that will deliver that exciting football. Stability is something I believe we have lacked aince sir alex. And it is something we need.

I know many will disagree with me on this point but I just don’t see the positives in sacking him. What if the new manager comes in plays great football but we are only competing for top 4? I guarantee the same fans calling for jose’s Head will call for this manager’s heads. We as fans are all fickle. Some days I wake up and I am Jose out and the next I am more pragmatic about the current situation. Our club is steeped with glorious tradition and history and that should never be forgotten. But let’s not pretend that football is the same romantic, beautiful game in the 60s, 70s, 80s. The game lost its soul years ago to the money. So with that change we have to change as a club as well. That does not mean we sell out our values. But we cannot keep thinking we are above all of this because we are not. It’s time we played the game like everyone else. Yes we Have traditions of attacking football. But I believe we also have traditions of loyalty to our manager. On paper Jose has delivered to the board in getting us European football again. So he deserves the opportunity to build again for another season. It’s not pretty and you may dislike him but for me that is fairness. He is an arrogant ego maniac but so was Fergie in rival fans’ eyes. We just adored him because he was or manager. Everyone else despised him. Redman makes a great point that the next manager will benefit from the ground work Jose will have laid. I agree with that. But I do understand where you are coming from and I really enjoy reading your posts. I am just seeing things from a different angle here.

13 May 2018 22:29:38
AJH

I wanted Pep but once our board had dithered we had to get Mourinho, I don’t have unflinching support for any manager, every single one needs to have the right cv then earn their position.

Do I feel this “damage”is being done? No, damage was done with the shocking transition from SAF and appointing who we did. How can you feel LvG respected the club with the nonsense he has come out with since his sacking?

You said you think Jose thinks only of himself, however, when SAF was fighting over Rock of Gibraltar that ultimately brought the Glazers to United was SAF thinking of United or himself? It’s all about perspective

You said “Someone asked last week if we would be happy winning the league playing like this. My answer is no”. So what was your feeling when SAF won the final league title? The football was terrible but we won, Were you complaining then?

13 May 2018 22:31:42
It's all about opinions. I think that's a great post redman.
Ahh in his first few years there were lots of people saying the same about Fergus that you are saying about jose.

Jose inherited a shambles of a squad. A SQUAD devoid of top class players never mind world class. With the exception of ddg
He inherited a squad with a broken mentality. With no leader no drive no standards.

Despite that he won 2 trophies and qualified for the cl in season 1.
2nd and our best points total for 5 years passing out Liverpool Chelsea arsenal and spurs this season and a cup final to come.
This squad is still poor.
Full of average Joe's who have contributed little or nothing in the way of a title challenge for 5 years.

You bang on about history and tradition. Our history tells you we back our managers when they are moving in the right direction. Jose has results moving in the right direction.
The style will improve somewhat i'm sure. I'm also sure he can topple pep and win our title back. He has done it before and he will do it again.
City have raised the bar. We have to abrupt the challenge embrace it and overcome it. Jose imo is the best qualified to meet that challenge.

13 May 2018 22:43:53
Interesting selection of views guys. I think the one common point agreed by most of us is that if Jose gets the players he wants then the team will perform better. The big question is whether they will perform with the panache we expect or desire. I would say that if you look at his first Chelsea title winning teams and Madrids too they played fast attacking football and scored lots of goals. He was given the tools to win in style. Imagine how much better our attacking play would be if we had a Lampard or Ronaldo or Hazard. Imagine if Jose had taken over a Utd squad with a Vidic, a Scholes, a Keane and a Van Nistleroy in. He would have won titles all right

The truth is that Sir Alex was an amazing motivator but he left his successors with an ageing squad and his succession was not handled properly. David Gill leaving was as big a blow as Sir Alex`s departure. City had been planning and building for several years in advance of Peps arrival. The owners brought in a management structure from Barca. I have no proof as such but I am convinced that Pep was consulted about the players he wanted well before he was named as City's manager. Pep is a great manager no doubt but how many Champions League titles did he win in the past 15 years? He had possibly the greatest midfield ever assembled at Barcelona plus unlimited funds there. He also had only Real Madrid and latterly Atletico as domestic opposition capable if challenging his team. Likewise in Germany he had access to a decent transfer kitty and even more limited domestic challengers. Yet he has not dominated other managers in the Champions League. He only manages elite clubs. Yes he has earned the right now to do so but I woukd argue that in a way it is harder to do what the managers of Burnley and Palace and Huddersfield did this season with tiny budgets and inferior players.

One other thing and that is whenever Jose leaves if he has been given backing by the board in the transfer market we will have a much stronger squad than we do now.

Lastly as supporters we should get behind the manager and team wholeheartedly. We should always strive to be the 12th man that gives our team that vital advantage. Our support will help the team to feel confident. It's basic psychology. People feel getter as a rule when praised and supported rather than when they are being criticised.

14 May 2018 01:55:53
Remember, 'having a plan' was the big thing to judge our managers on not so long ago. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any plan whatsoever as regards the way we play. Disjointed, muddled and insipid. At any rate, I don't hear, 'the plan' mentioned much on here these days.

14 May 2018 06:59:27
Nou

There has been a huge improvement in league position and if our player targets are to be believed we may actually be looking at what is needed. There should be a plan on the pitch and in the boardroom or even an all encompassing one. Progress in league position indicates there is a plan, solidify the team and then improve the positions we need. Next season, the buys and the challenge will be the indicator, as long as the manager gets the players he wants, not third choices.

14 May 2018 07:01:16
99 doesn't suit the argument.

14 May 2018 07:04:25
People say pep, poch and Klopp would get better out of this squad seem to be just looking at our attacking players. They forget that our back four options are pathetic except one! No other manager stated above could shore up our defence with the options we have and we would be cringing at the sight of our defence being carved open with every attack, much like city's and pool's defense this year was!

Jose needs to get the balance right, I pretty much believe if we have a good defence, we will release the brakes and although we might never see the gameplay like pool's or city's, but it wouldn't be this bad.

14 May 2018 10:20:21
He's had four windows to improve our defence.

14 May 2018 11:48:33
If you're referring to Bailly as the one, he hasn't got a look in lately.







 

 

 
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