07 May 2018 08:28:05
Given how difficult it is to gain any perspective on the Jose - Rashford - Martial dynamic I felt it may be worth sharing an observation by the Manchester Evening News:
Perspective on Rashford and Martial
Rashford’s decline began before Sanchez joined United, specifically on December 23 with that ‘childish’ decision-making at Leicester. He was at it again at Burnley a month later and, sandwiched in between that, he was taken off against Derby because Mourinho ‘had a feeling he was not going to score’.
Martial was actually accommodated in the team after Sanchez arrived and only dropped out through injury. Only he hasn’t shown much stomach for the fight. His last goal was in United’s last match without Sanchez and just consider some of his performances since late January; Chelsea at home, Brighton at home and Brighton away. He’s done next to nothing.
07 May 2018 09:09:14
Listing poor performances (which in some of those cases can be attributed to being played out of position, absolutely crap service etc) to justify not playing Rashford and Martial can be done for Jose's favourites. Sanchez has had what, a few good halfs in a United shirt? Lukaku can have very frustrating games when he tries to play intricate football. Lingard has only had a few bright moments since his run of form ended months ago. Can't remember Mata doing anything since his goals vs Leicester in December but he still gets a game, not to mention he slows down near everything we do. Jose just simply doesn't trust young players, even if in reality they aren't doing much worse than experienced pros. Just look at our left back position, Ashley Young has played his heart out and that's great but he's had some absolute stinkers and Luke Shaw has to settle for garbage time at the end of the game. Players like Rashford and Martial were on course for they're best seasons at United and it all got derailed when Sanchez joined.
07 May 2018 10:28:19
Sanchez works harder in 45 minutes than Martial does in a season.
07 May 2018 11:15:22
Timbo - I think the biggest problem at the moment is we're definitely lacking a vision, an identity and suffering from a lack of leadership. Since Fergi retired the Club doesn't know what it wants to be and this is transferred right down to management and then the players.
Our Club, certainly through its most successful periods has been built on stability and an ideology of playing exciting, attacking football using (wherever possible) young players from the academy steeped in the history and tradition of the Club. For me this is what the Club stands for. Investing in youth, giving young players a chance, playing football with pace and intensity, working hard, never giving up and trying to play football the right way, combined with scouting the world for the best players that share these ideas. To do this takes time, bravery, courage but above all choosing a manager that shares in this vision and ideology.
Jose Mourinho is a great manager, one of the best but he doesn't share this philosophy. He's a winner and this is all that matters, this is his panacea and he'll do whatever it takes to win. He lives in the present and has little interest in the future of the Club. This is how he measures success, this is what drives his ego. He doesn't care for style or giving chances or waiting for young players to develop this is not his job, his job is to win.
Age is a largely irrelevant factor to Mourinho. If your good enough you'll play. It doesn't matter if your 17 or 36. His main issue with young players is consistency and maturity. Most young players, no matter how talented are inconsistent. They need time to develop and mature.
The problem he's facing at Utd is he's relying on the likes of Martial, Rashford and to some extent Lingard to deliver now as we don't have anyone else. At the start of the season he was using them well and they were pushing each other along but by January we were still out of the title race. I'm not sure Sanchez was ever a real target but when he became available the chance to sign an experienced, proven, consistent performer was just too good to turn down. Mourinho doesn't care about laying foundations or the future of the Club after he's gone. He only wants to win now!
This brings me back full circle. The board chose Mourinho knowing all his strengths and weaknesses. In my opinion they now need to back the manager. If he wants to sign experienced players, because they have the maturity and consistency required to follow his instructions and improve the team then the board should deliver them. Surely they knew Mourinho was only a short term plan and if he was appointed to win things then they should back their man.
At the moment we're lost, caught between wanting to maintain the history and traditions of the Club but not knowing how to deliver it in this modern era. I also get the impression that the Club have a desire to sign big named players, ready made stars, galacticos which they can present to the sponsors, investors, stock exchange and boast about shirt sales and social media hits.
I think the Club needs to decide which direction they want to go. Are we the new Real Madrid, buying up the next big name galactico's, hiring and firing managers, playing their style of football, pushing the brand, measuring success on shirt sales, sponsorship, social media followers and turn over or do we want to return the Club to its traditional routes. Investing in a manager that shares these principles, taking the time and thought to appoint the best manager, being brave and patient and above all trusting in those principles which conquered Europe from the depths of despair and awakened a sleeping giant, transforming it into one of the biggest Clubs in the World.
07 May 2018 11:32:36
Couldn't help but notice the reaction of martial when the final whistle went at Wembley recently. Whereas the rest of the bench was running on to the pitch to celebrate a semi final win martial just strolled on to the pitch, no joy in his face looking like he was sulking because he hadn't played. On his day a fantastic player with incredibly quick feet but I don't think there is room for him rashford and lingard in the squad. Lingard has kicked on big time and although rashford hasn't had a great season, like lingard he always gives 100 %. Martial however seems to go missing too often so if he wants to go and we can get good money for him then reluctantly I would let him leave.
07 May 2018 14:29:57
IMO some of the fans have very short memories. After Fergie retired Utd were floundering with an ageing and poor squad. Then with Moyes and LVG we slipped further away from the top of the PL and out of the Champions League.
Mourinho was a safe pair of hands. Style of play and our history means nothing if you are mid table!
Mourinho is driven and a winner, in addition he can attract the big players ie Pogba, Lukaku and Sanchez, something that some others would not be able to do.
Mourinho won two trophies in his first season and got us back into the CL as a result. This season we are second best to City who have been incredible, blowing everyone away. However Utd are 2nd on merit in the cup final and so are moving in the right direction. Mourinho is only a 3/ 4 year plan and when he is finished we will be better off than when he arrived. Some of the other managers that people mention on here may be good at smaller clubs but at Utd who knows how they will perform.
We should never pretend to actually know the size of the task in being the manager at Utd. Only a few can succeed.
I really like Pochettino and Spurs play great football, however they haven’t won anything. His chances of success if he was at Utd May increase but so would the pressure. Spurs are a big club but not to be rude or unkind Utd is a total different level!
Someone has pointed out the poor performances of Sanchez but he got us to the cup final. I do not see Martial or Rashford, who I both like, scoring his goal or putting in his work rate and setting up the 2nd goal. Rashford came on in that game and was clean through but wanted too many touches and then the chance was gone. A more experienced player would of buried that chance or at worst worked the keeper. I love Rashford and what he has done but he is still raw and not the finished product.
I thought Lingard was finished when Mourinho was appointed but he proved me wrong on that one.
If Martial wants to leave and we can get good money then let him go as that will give Rashford more time.
I am right behind Mourinho for the reasons explained above, I know what he is and what we will get. How many managers are going to be at Utd for more than 5 years in the future? This is almost a thing of the past even though I wish it wasn’t.
{Ed001's Note - I think you are missing something when you say about 3/4 year plans and why Jose gets so much grief about it taking time. Jose himself has said that he does not need time and has often criticised other managers for talking about how they need a 3 year plan or similar. It is his own fault if he now gets criticised as he set himself up for that.}
07 May 2018 15:41:25
Ed001 I didn’t say anything about Mourinho having a 3/ 4 year plan but only about him being the Utd manager for 3/ 4 years and then he will be gone.
He never states, like some managers, that he has a plan to build for the future. He would have to change his style and attitude to be more patient and pragmatic.
You know what you get with Mourinho, there’s very little that is hidden.
{Ed001's Note - you need to read back your posts as you quite clearly did say that.}
07 May 2018 17:26:07
People have short memories or or just a bit dim. Anyone remember Rashford’s debut, or his 2 goals against Liverpool this year? Rashford is incredibly talented but has been massively inconsistent. Is that youth, his attitude, or the inability of Jose to get the best out of him? I know which one my money is on.
As for Martial, he is also talented but does see, to have an attitude, something that has never been levelled at Rashford. Perhaps he does have an attitude but again why is the Manager notable to get him motivated?
Jose cannot be trusted with youth, he has no patience and appears not to want to invest the time necessary to get the best out of them. I’m done, SAF’s illness has focused my mind, Jose needs to go, now.
07 May 2018 20:13:09
Nah ajh I don't care much for the man and I don't like how he has us playing but if he was fired now the next guy would have an impossible task . He's won two things he's into a cup final and runner up in the league, if that becomes the guideline that gets you fired then we will go through loads .
Don't get me wrong I don't think the man helps himself in anyway shape or form in winning himself fans and why he duznt just have a go in easy games and win fans over is beyond me . When next season starts he's had five windows, hundreds of millions and bought loads of players, whoever is there he wants there and whoever is gone he wants gone, we can have no more if we only had this or that we would be so much more attacking or the players he was left aren't good enough, if they are there he rates them and wants them there . It's painful I know if you suspect it will be pretty dross to watch again but we can't fire the man on suspicions for next season it has to play out .