Manchester United banter 78708


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18 Mar 2018 20:40:40
I see a lot of Jose bashing on here and in the media and it is quite baffling to me.

We just came off 2 weeks in which we beat Chelsea and Liverpool and reached an FA cup semi final. Yes, we lost in a disappointing fashion in the UCL but that's a 3/ 4 good results that we've achieved. 2 of them against tough opponents.

Liverpool's free scoring front 3 barely had a shot on target and were made to look completely impotent at Old trafford. With all the possession they had we let them create next to nothing and their goal came from a freak Bailly OG. They are behind us in the league, have spent just as much and yet there are no questions asked of Klopp but Jose is under pressure?

I see everyone praising Pochetino, talking him up as a potential United manager yet he's won nothing, his teams regularly crumble and fall at the final hurdle and time and again need Harry Kane to bail them out and are quite inconsistent without him. Yet, there is so much praise for Pochetino but talk of Jose needing to go? Do Spurs really play that much better than us?

So, one loss to Sevilla has to put a manager on the brink when he's won 2 trophies last year, put us back in the UCL, in an FA cup semi final and 2nd in the league to a team that is playing on superhuman levels? Is this Manchester United or Real Madrid/ Chelsea?

Everyone seems to think we have such great players with potential who aren't performing because of the manager, I tend to disagree.

When was the last time Pogba played a full 90 minutes in which he totally controlled the game? He has a few flashes and tricks that sometime come off but he doesn't do the basics a CM is supposed to do of positioning and consistent passing and dictating tempo and gives away the ball cheaply. For a tall guy he repeatedly loses headers on second balls. If there's one mistake Jose has made imo, its buying Pogba. His mistakes got covered up at Juve because of Pirlo and Vidal who were world class. A player who looks good in highlight reels but never delivers over a full 90 minutes and seems to be playing with his mates in the park. He is 25, the days to talk about "potential" are long gone.

There were questions about youth development when Jose came yet he trusts Lingard who is having his best season for us this year, Rashford plays every game and he is trusting a young Scott Mctominay. He's doing the best with the youth at his disposal.

Are Martial and Herrera really that great players? Has Smalling ever filled you up with confidence? And for all the talk of potential, which was the 90 minutes that made you actually see it on the pitch with Shaw? The only ones who are performing consistently imo are Lukaku (even when he didn't score he created chances for others), Matic (been solid all season but been let down by his partner), Mata (always a 7-8/ 10) and Lingard (always has movement and causes problems), Bailly and of course De Gea. The rest of them look, just like they did under Moyes and LVG, go hiding, show no movement and play it sideways instead of taking players on.

How is it that Matic gives that performance he did against Brighton but the others don't? How is it Lukaku creates for his teammates even when he's in bad scoring form? How is it that Lingard shows movement but others don't? Are these guys being told some different tactics by Jose than the others? Or is it a lack of character from the others? For all the talk of defensive tactics, Jose's Chelsea, Madrid and Inter had some really good dominant displays.

I feel the squad Jose took over was very average and needed "major retooling". He didn't start with KDB, Sterling, David Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Fernandinho already at the club and Fergie's lack of investment and the next two managers' poor spending left us in a hole.

He's found one midfielder, striker, a good center back and half a decent center back and made a big mistake on Pogba. Our spending gets very distorted when we look at the overall money spent but one must realize that a huge chunk of it was spent on Lukaku and Pogba. He hasn't actually bought that many players and the squad is largely the same.

Jose's made a lot of enemies in the media, all of whom were just waiting for that one defeat to turn the knife in. The ones who are freaking out over here have never particularly wanted him anyway. Sacking him now will achieve nothing and we will go through another huge process of starting all over again and what is to say the next manager will play the football of your dreams? The grass is always greener on the other side.

The club need to back Jose and let the players know that the manager is in charge and they have to perform or perish and will be shipped out no matter their name. That is the only way some of them will stop slacking off. Has Jose made some mistakes? Yes. But he's done better than most and does not deserve the level of criticism he's getting right now.

Agree8 Disagree19

18 Mar 2018 21:14:35
Ken meet REDFAITH, REDFAITH, this is ken.

18 Mar 2018 21:18:24
Good post redfaith.

I have consistently said the same players who were there under LVG and Moyes have not performed. 3 different managers and not really performed. For all of joses faults, whether he is the man to take us forward or not, opinions will differ. The players are and have not been good enough for a good 5 or 6 years.

18 Mar 2018 21:50:19
Pogba Miki Sanchez lindelof ibra have all been amazing this season .

18 Mar 2018 21:52:23
For me our biggest problem at the moment is our lack of pressing and intensity. We're just so passive and seem to let even the most average of teams have comfortable possession.

I'd like us to be braver and push 10-20 yards further up the pitch. I'd love to see us play with a much higher intensity and desire especially at Old Trafford.

This was the most disappointing thing about the Sevilla game. We sat back and hoped for something to happen rather than taking the initiative and making something happen. We made it comfortable for them by being far too passive which allowed them to grow in confidence and we just let the game drift dangerously towards full time.

I honestly don't know if this is down to the tactics, a lack of desire on behalf of the players or a combination of the two.

I can't see why a front 4 of Rashford, Sanchez, Lingard and Lukaku shouldn't be able to put the opposition defenders under pressure. Once they start hunting the ball down it becomes infectious, the crowd are engaged and the rest of the team should naturally follow. Sometimes just a bit of effort and desire is enough to energise the crowd and wake everybody up.

For the rest of the season I'd like to see us start games with a higher tempo. Put the opposition under pressure, don't let them settle, be braver with and without the ball, work harder and just get some urgency and intensity back into our game I don't think that's too much to ask.

18 Mar 2018 21:38:27
Great post redfaith.

18 Mar 2018 22:11:20
Pogba has been v hit and miss, lindelof very much improved since the start but Jose seems to prefer smalling? Miki not good enough and already gone, Sanchez, no doubt is very good but not here long enough yet. Ibra won many games for us last season and has been injured this year.

I'm much more worried about the players who have been here years and consistently performed at a level that is just not good enough.

18 Mar 2018 22:13:57
'Jose done nowt wrong'

18 Mar 2018 22:19:33
Take away the likes of smalling and co that have won the epl which players have been here years and proved there not good enough.

Do you think fellaini is good enough? Do you think Jose rates him?

18 Mar 2018 22:23:36
Jose took over a squad that had just finished on the same points as city and won the fa cup.
Since then only city and pay have spent more . Mind you we got Sanchez and ibra for nothing other than there mega wages .

Not sure Jose has had it as hard as some would like to make out .

18 Mar 2018 23:40:00
Fantastic post redfaith!

19 Mar 2018 02:35:45
Yes jred and only City are above us in the table. City started with a squad that was way better than ours and was massively underperforming. I think our squad was about the level at which it finished under LVG.

I don't think you can compare the likes of Herrera to David Silva in terms of talent. Rashford/ Martial are nowhere near Aguero's level. Kompany is better than every defender Jose started with. Fernandinho is much better than any defensive midfielder Jose had. KDB is much better than any midfielder Jose started with. That's a great base for Pep to build on. Why do you think he went to City instead of us? We are a year or two behind that squad.

How many players has Jose actually bought? The spending is totally distorted by the fees for Lukaku and Pogba.

Pogba - A mistake imo. Massively overrated.
Mkhi - mistake, shipped out.
Lindelof - Getting used to the EPL. Improving slowly.
Zlatan - Short term fix. Worked well for a year.
Lukaku - Long term fix. Performing well.
Matic - Playing well.
Bailly - unlucky with injuries. Absolute rock when fit.
Sanchez - Has barely had 2 months. Too early to judge.

So I would say about a third of his signings have worked out, a third could go either way and a third have flopped.

Why is it that you see Jesse Lingard and to an extent Lukaku and Rashford always pressing defenders but Martial never does it? All of them have the same coach. Valencia has good positioning but Shaw always disappointed. The constantly dropping back instead of pressing to me is much more to do with desire and character than tactics.

Smalling's distribution is piss poor and it hampers the entire attacking structure. We've made some players sound like world beaters who've just been performing badly because of the manager when they're actually quite average. Some of them have gone through 3 managers now and are still just as bad.

19 Mar 2018 02:56:46
Well said redfaith. Well reasoned post.

19 Mar 2018 06:22:28
Great post redfaith.

19 Mar 2018 07:35:42
Red faith - just to play devil's advocate, why would you want to change these rubbish players whose achievements you list or is every success down to José and then when the fans complain about results / tactics its the players fault. Who picks Fellani, who picks as some say the overweight Shaw, who chose to change a successful team against Liverpool for the Sevilla game. You say Smalling's distribution hampers the whole attacking structure, yet José thinks he offers more to the team than his own signing, Lindelof.
Some posters point out that during a 'normal' season we would be challenging for the title, are our players really as bad as some make out. Yes we need changes but I don't buy into the wholesale changes some advocate. For me our failings are a mix of both the players' and manager's faults.
You mention transfers, something I remain unconvinced about with José and think that his record with us is questionable at best.

19 Mar 2018 07:40:11
Have a word Jose sets up the team they play as he wants.
It's not the school yard, they work on how there going to play who there up against what positions they take up depended where the ball is on the pitch .
Jose has bought 8 players or more to the point MAN UNITED have bought 8 players . Take bailly Jose had little input in to buying him .

A third of our new signings have worked out? So 2 thirds haven't 2 out of 3 . That's pretty poor.

19 Mar 2018 07:45:51
This season.
Sanchez poor
Lindelof poor can't get in the team ahead of smalling *who gets dogs abuse in here . But is ahead of lindelof
Bailly been injured most the season like Jones.
Miki sold
Pogba shadow of the player he should be
Ibra awful played 2 games
Matic done well
Lukaku done well .

It's a team game and to suggest that it's only the players who were at the club before Jose is nonsense .
2 players signed since Jose come to the club have done well this season.

19 Mar 2018 07:47:29
Tony, what have you started? Can if worms comes to mind haha. My opinion in mourinho is that he plays rubbish football but somehow gets results. However, we're at the counting part of the season. Every result matters from now on. Will we beat Spurs at Wembley? Will we go there to offer an attacking threat or will we play the same rubbish and lose. Spurs are not Seville. They're much better than Seville. So it'll be interesting to see what happens.
On the player front Redfaith, city had invested better than us, that's a given. They also don't spend a lot on one player but they buy a lot if very good players at good prices. However, mourinho has been here 2 years and in that time, we needed two full backs which he has not sorted (city bought three in one window) . We needed another commanding centre back alongside bailly, not sorted (city bought Laporte) . We needed a winger or two, not sorted (city bought Sanè and Silva) . And most importantly, we needed a midfield and that's definitely not sorted.
So what has mourinho done to warrant our appreciation and respect. He's bought mkhytarian who flopped badly. He bought Pogba who was a world star at Juve and is now flopping terribly. He bought lindelof and he's been below average. And he gave Zlatan a new contract when it is clear the guy is finished. Matic, lukaku and Bailly are the successes. I could have told you that matic and lukaku will succeed as they're PL proven bailly was a good buy. So more than half his expensive purchases have flopped. I'm not mentioning Sanchez here as it's too early to judge.
The way the players are performing does not fill any of us with hope. It is mostly a collection of expensive players playing like strangers. Is that not the manager's job to get them to play as a unit? When mourinho holds a press conference, he insults the fans, the club, the owners, the management, the refs, the press, the medical staff and his own players. He also comes across as extremely thick and lacking in any common sense or clarity. So if the same applies to his tactics and man management, then is it any wonder the players are confused and disillusioned? Is it any wonder the fans are bored and disinterested?
It's one thing supporting the club and another supporting the manager in his actions. I support United passionately and will do till the day I die, but I cannot support a manager who is clearly out of touch and who is harming the reputation of our beloved United.

19 Mar 2018 08:40:03
Lets see what happens in the summer
I hope to see ibra fellaini and carrick leave/ retire
Im also hoping that at least 5 of the following are shown the door. Smalling blind darmian shaw jones herrera mata martial rojo.
I hope that valencia and young become occasional starters covering for new signings.
Ideally i would like to see tuanzabe tfm and mctom in the 1st team squad and 5 new signings
Rb lb cb (depending on out goings) cm×2 rw
Dont care if the signings are big names that cost a lot or if he signs players that cost little. The criteria must be that they fit the system and managers demanding style.
Preferably i'd like to see a couple of proven winners with good big club experience with the right mentality come in along with a couple that want to prove they can move on to the next level.

19 Mar 2018 09:19:34
Good post AAA. Ken, at last; I think we agree!

19 Mar 2018 09:23:08
Dont see what the summer has to do with how the team performs in the present .

Fellaini is a interesting one why would anyone want to get rid of a player the manager would like to keep?
Rojo? We have just given him a new 4 year deal which would suggest the manager is happy with him . So again why would anyone want rid of him .
Surely he must fit the managers system.

19 Mar 2018 09:39:33
Aaa. Pep got the support from tge board to clear the decks completely and replace all the aging under performing players in 1 go.
He could not turn zabaletta kolorov sagna clichie navas nolito fernando ya ya ieanacho managala into the team he wanted. Their board supported him fully. If all those players were still there city would be like they were last season.

Ed002 has said we tried and jose wanted 2 get 2 new full backs and a cb last summer. But they would only spend so much and the board would not allow him to purge all the players he wanted to release.

This summer he must be allowed to do that.

When was the last time that valencia young shaw smalling jones rojo fellaini herrera darmian blind etc enertained you all here 3 4 5 plus years. These guys are not capable of doing that just like the city players pep sold and replaced.

I agree that the football is poor but no manager could get those above to entertain you. A couple of them have a title under fergie but were bit part players at best during that time.

Your right jose needed them replaced. He identified that but has not veen allowed or ed woodward fsiled to secure the replacements. Ed002 has told us that.

Do you really think he has not told the board they need replacing. Of course he has. He is not to blame for the fact they have not been.
As i said above let's see what happens thus summer. I don't nor does anybody expect us to play like city if and when that happens. But the style will be better considersbly ove no doubt about that.

The most succesful manager in our history abused tbe board and owners and threatened to sue them until he was but back in his box. He served several suspensions for abusing refs both during games and in post match comments. Our revered ex club captain ripped into supporters for their lack of vocal support. Jose has said nothing really that most managers don't say at some point.

Lots of people are frustrated me included but i think we need to give jose the support he needs. Lots of players been failing for years. He knows that he wants to do what city did last year and clear the decks. Until he does that this squad will go nowhere just like city's squad went nowhere last year.

19 Mar 2018 09:59:12
So Jose wants rid of fellaini and rojo?
Wanted rid of Valencia? A player that he has made captain and if fit plays .
People don't rate smalling but Jose rates him more than lindelof every game .
I think people get mixed up with what they think should happen and what the manager actually does .
Sanchez pogba lukaku martial etc and a no other manager could get more out of them?
Why is it always pep this pep that? Ranier won a title with a far worse squad than this .

Conte won the league with a team that Jose had 3 points of relegation . They never bought 10 new players they got a manager that could get the best out of the players he has .
If Jose is going to be successful next season he will need to get the players he has, regardless who they are playing

Pogba and Sanchez are top players 100% but no good if there not playing well .
Make no mistake if them 2 alone where playing well this would be a better team to watch .
But it's just excuses over and over again .
Lindelof was going to sort cb out
Pogba was going to sort cm out
Sanchez was going to sort the attack out .

19 Mar 2018 10:02:54
I agree with pretty much all the things u say ken as do many others, clear out players that haven't done much the last few years, get new faces in and get the fullbacks flying forward to give us more width the thing I don't get though is u back the guy giving the players u want out new contracts, he also looks as if against anyone decent the fullbacks aren't given much liscence to bomb on unless we are behind and he selects the very players who haven't hit the heights like Fellini and smalling over his own buys. I like yr ideas ken I'm just not so sure the guy u back is the one that will implement them .

19 Mar 2018 10:03:40
Lot of teams in the league play better footy than United .
With half the resources and players we have .

19 Mar 2018 10:09:24
Nail on head pal.

19 Mar 2018 10:17:54
You confuse me jred. Yesterday you posted jose has done nowt (i think that means nothing where you come from) wrong. Doing ok. Yet you then slate him and many players at every given opportunity. I think you are a complete wind up merchant or else suffer from mutltiple personality disorder. 😂😂.

19 Mar 2018 10:20:14
Slate, i think its a means to an end at the moment. that's what i'm hoping anyway. 😂.

19 Mar 2018 10:22:22
Conte won the league with the players jose won the league with at chelsea i don't get your point.

19 Mar 2018 10:41:40
I think Jose great at deflection Ken we lose to a team badly Seville that most thought we should beat so Jose then goes into a rant implying the players he inherited aren't as good as others so blame the last guy and it's not Jose's fault, but he duznt mention about 130 millions worth sitting on the bench who weren't selected because he picked the very players he's implying were left to him who aren't good enough ahead of them . If pog and lindlehof had played would have been harder to blame previous managers signings. He picked the team then used it as an out.

19 Mar 2018 10:46:38
So slate says he doesn't think jose is the man to bring us forward i respect your opinion slate. Jred says you have hit nail on the head so agrees with you i assume (but nobody can be sure) but yesterday posted he doesn't think jose shold be fired and is 'doing ok doing nowt wrong'.
So if you agree with slate that jose is not the man to take the club forward but you still don't want him fired because he is doing ok. What is is you want jred? You agree he is not the man but don't want him fired so do you want everything to stay the same? Its an interseting viewpoint pretty unique.
Some want him fired some want him to stay and finish the job but not at all surprisingly you are singing both hymns😂😂😂😂 now that's comedy gold.

19 Mar 2018 10:35:48
I've said over and over again ed1 tried to tell you yesterday this is just Jose doing what he does.
He is doing nothing wrong other than being Jose why are people surprised?
He is doing what many people said he would before we signed him, it's why a lot didn't want him .

You confuse what you would like to see with what the manager actually does.
Slate hit the nail on the head .

Jose managed to get a team of hazard and co 3 points of relegation .
He won the league getting the same players to play well.
Conte won the league getting them players to play well.

That's what he and any manager needs to do . The rest is just excuses .

You don't rate Valencia the manager made him captain and plays him, you raved about lindelof but want rid of smalling . Jose picks smalling over lindelof
You've gone on and on about selling fellaini manager has backed him .
Want rid of rojo we just give him a new contract .

19 Mar 2018 11:07:42
I think I want pretty much all the things you'd like to see happen to happen ken they all make sense to me I don't dispute any of the things u want, I'm just not so sure Jose will do them that's all.

19 Mar 2018 11:32:04
Im hopeful slate. 👍🏼 we will know this time next year.

19 Mar 2018 12:02:34
I feel a lot of the criticism toward Pogba is fairly harsh. He was instrumental in the success we had in the early season, he came back from injury flying, picking up a MotM performance against Newcastle and played a big part in destroying Arsenal before being sent-off. It's here I believe there is an issue. Since he came back from suspension, he's not put in the same kind of performances, the red card felt severe, was more likely a booking. After that sending off, his competitive edge has lacked, almost like he is afraid to be physical, which is a big part off his game. Maybe this shows signs there are issues with his personality, and that he wasn't able to pick himself up from that, but judging the player's ability, on a part of the season, rather than the season as a whole, seems unfair (after all he's still rating our highest player over on WhoScored, and that cannot be down to his latest performances) . Without that suspension, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have continued churning out fine performances, but I feel that red card has hurt his confidence a lot and it feels as if he is questioning himself more, pulling out of challenges more, not being as aggressive or competitive.

19 Mar 2018 12:15:50
Josè has spent a lot of money and we set up against a very average Sevilla, like we were playing Barcelona under Pep at the Camp Nou defending a 2.0 lead. Truly embarrassing and the manager got it very very wrong. These are the tactics a massive underdog will play. They were the underdogs, not us. Jose has been slammed by the media and rightly so. You could tell by his lame 12 minute rant that he knows he got it wrong. Sadly this will continue under Jose, wrong manager long-term for us. But probably the best stop-gap option that was available. He's already falling out with players and we seen this at Chelsea. Imagine being Sanchez, Pogba etc and being told to defend all game. Not to push forward and protect a 0.0. I said the same when we played Liverpool last year. They were there for the taking and we were cowards playing a cowardly manager's cowardly tactics.

I'm hoping we can get our stability back and then employ the correct manager who plays the way we play. Pointless buying the likes of Sanchez when we are not letting them flourish. Such a Pity.

19 Mar 2018 12:31:53
We scrape a lot of wins. When was the last time we played even once like City and won convincingly? It's not like we don't have the talent in the team. Imagine Pep with the likes of Martial, Rashford, Sanchez etc. There are fractions within MU who know Jose is not the right man. But issue is the guy they wanted is managing our neighbours. Playing proper football.

19 Mar 2018 12:39:41
I'm not picking anyone out but over the last few days posts herrera is now a surplus player. The player that most on the site wanted as this seasons captain. I admit he hasn't been great but he also hasn't had a run of games. I always persoanally feel he's one of the players that makes himself a nuisance for the opposition. Chases everything and puts a shift in. what's changed.

19 Mar 2018 12:51:31
Again your stretching in a vain attempt to prove a silly point .
Slate hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that all the things you want aren't the things the manager (who can't do any wrong in your eyes ) Is actually doing .

19 Mar 2018 14:20:02
What are u talking about can't do any wrong in my eyes.



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