18 Mar 2018 10:12:28
Watershed moments, I had a feeling that after Tuesday, last night may have been one of those and wondered how the team would react and play last night. They won but weren't great. However, I found Jose's comments after the game very interesting and potentially a watershed moment.
My reading of it is he is nobody's fool and knew the reputational damage done on Tuesday, not so much losing but the manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he has regular meetings with Woodward and was asked what happened. It sounded to me like he wanted more last night, possibly because of that pressure but they didn't deliver. It seems beyond the existing players to deliver a tactical display and then be more expansive. Jose said players hid and didn't do what he had coached them to do for two days. It has to be said that smacks of it wasn't my fault, but also why hasn't that been the aim of his coaching for 18 months? I think he feels the pressure because he has been sacked before and wanted the message out there that he is trying.
In saying that there is a problem with players, I commented after the Sevilla game that players were afraid of the big stage and now the manager is saying it. It's a key moment for me, do the club back him and change the players or change the manager? The problem is that changing the manager let's those hiding (and I believe there are players who cannot cope with the weight of the shirt), stay and will cause the same issues for the next incumbent. I recall a letter in the press about 1989 saying Fergie out and I think it was Greavsie who answered saying something along the lines that it was the players that needed changing, basically cheating the club out of wages. There are some similarities
Jose has challenged our players, at Chelsea they downed tools, the club sacked him, now 18 months on they play when they want and the next manager is under pressure. It's a huge call for the club, I think Jose is right in what he is saying and if, it's a big if, he wants to play more expansive aggressive football then the club needs to stand right behind him. Some players may take their bat and ball home, mainly because they don't like a challenge so directly to them, well that exactly highlights what Jose said. It's decisions on this that Woodward gets paid for even though he is a numbers man not a football one. It's a big call, but pandering to the players, whoever is manager won't work. My gut feeling is to stick with Jose because he is correct and knows how to win plus the club still behaves like it did in the nineties when they need to modernise. It a big call for Woodward, especially as he signed the cheque to buy some of them. I still think we should stick with the manager, he will drag the club to better days and give it a solid base to progress. We also need the owners and Woodward to decide if they want to be up with Barca, Madrid, Munich or just be a cash cow, change, painful change is needed as part of the improvement process.
18 Mar 2018 10:32:44
Really good post redman i agree.
18 Mar 2018 10:36:14
Redman I agree with what you are saying about players not pulling their weight maybe some have a mental block. But isn't it mourinho's job to get rid of it or get rid of them if they can't.
What mourinho did was cowardly finger pointing, as AJH below said in regards to shaw, he playing badly get him to improve if he can't sell him no need to make a sadistic game out of publicly bullying someone.
Mourinho talks about being brave on the ball what happened to that at Liverpool or Sevilla or against City or Arsenal after the first 10-15 minutes. It's not a switch that can be flicked on and off when one wants to, it all comes from the manager.
He talks about players who are scared and don't have the mentality, what about pogba and mkhi they can be legitimately called the biggest mentally frail players we have who bought them? What about lindelof don't see any mental fortitude in him either.
You mention madrid, Barcelona and bayern 3 clubs who would sack mourinho for his boring football and constant toxic fight picking. If we want to be them we need to play the way they do not the way mourinho does.
18 Mar 2018 10:53:59
Good post Red Man, well thought out and a reasoned argument. If it is down to the players, and I accept there are some who are not stepping up, then the way he has gone about publicly dissing them doesn’t sit right with me. I think he has done it to effectively say “it’s not my fault mateâ€. If he hadn’t lost the dressing room before then he has now, as you say it is done to the Chairman to back him in which case the players will either step up or be shipped out.
My recurring argument is that he should be able to get more out of the players we have, and we have got progressively worse this year.
As for expansive football, I don’t think he has it in him.
18 Mar 2018 11:14:45
I'm not in favour of sacking him just now. I'm resigned to the fact that there's not going to be a lightbulb moment any time soon, so best just to let the season play out, and see what the summer brings in terms of players José wants. He obviously only trusts certain players who buy into his philosophy ( I hate that word), so there can be no excuses after the summer, if he gets the players he wants. If there's no visible improvement in playing style next season, then I think it has to be thanks for the effort, but goodbye.
18 Mar 2018 11:19:05
Also for all those who think mourinho isn't having a meltdown these are his comments after Leicester defeat in 2015 where he went the whole my players betrayed me and was subsequently sacked
“I worked four days on this match, I prepared everything related to the opponent, I identified four movements where they score almost every one of their goals.
My players got all that information in training in the last three days and in four types of situations that I identified, they conceded the first and the second goals. "
Is it just me or does it not sound like
"When I spend two days working on a faster building gap, between the lines, that depends on the defenders and the movement of the attacking players. Here attacking players hiding behind players, defenders playing square passes taking 10-12 passes to go to another line. "
Both statements have additional comments where players get thrown under bus with no blame attached to the Special One.
18 Mar 2018 11:25:53
Good post noucamp i agree with most of that.
18 Mar 2018 11:33:21
I think it can only end one way. He can’t see any fault with his approach, the failure will always be the players, the supporters, the club, the media, and on and on. With the way he is treating certain players, it’s only a matter of time before he loses the dressing room.
I wanted him to be a success and prove that he can still be a top manager in the modern era, but if you can’t even acknowledge the mistakes you’re making, there’s no way to fix things.
18 Mar 2018 11:50:02
A good well thought out post Redman and I too think this is the watershed moment for Jose.
The players definitely need to step up, but Jose also needs to look in the mirror and find his personality, desire and class. He appears to no longer be the great manager and man he once was and believes his own hype too much.
Just like Fridays press conference was totally contrived, it seems so was the selection and substitution of Shaw, and the comments about the players after the game. If this is all to make a point, then I don’t like the point he is trying to make.
Jose is basically saying it’s not me it’s them and regardless of whether he is different behind closed doors he is at least alienating the fans which contributes to the grey cloud looming above Old Trafford.
If we change all the players, but Jose stays the same, which he says he will, we’ll still not play expansive football (no Jose team ever has) and the grey cloud will remain.
18 Mar 2018 11:58:10
So far we have supported José with several signings yet how have they performed, most have not achieved anywhere near what was expected, so bad was one that we offloaded him. We have nearly £1m a week tied up in 2 of Jose's players and what do we get in return, we have Jose's centre half, he can't replace the rubbish that some say smalling / jones etc are.
What makes people think José is capable of signing the right players, his track record thus far doesn't fill me with confidence.
18 Mar 2018 12:00:51
I don't like the way it is atm it leaves a bad taste in my mouth the way he is singling people out and publicly hammering them.
I agree that there are players that look overwhelmed at playing for the club, there are also players who simply aren't good enough.
Take yesterday for example saying matic is an island utter nonsense he was bang average in a bang average performance once again personally I thought lukaku and bailly were our best performers what are they thinking this morning after those comments .
We are improving imo and I know it's not pretty but I still believe we are moving in the right direction so the idea of sacking him is abhorrent to me it would be a disaster imo but I do wish he would occasionally show a bit of that class he keeps banging on about.