17 Mar 2018 08:26:40
Jose is accused of not getting more from his players and that they are not playing to their potential.
Ddg playing to his potential all season.
Rb. Valencia is playing to his full capabilities.
Lb young playing arguably his best season ever
Shaw has played about 20 games in 3 seasons. He is not in good shape.
Cb bailly has been injured
Smalling also arguably having his best ever season at united
Li delof.
17 Mar 2018 08:31:50
Defence has done ok midfield and up not is the issues.
Look like a team of individuals .
A good attacking unit is missing .
We have struggled to impose ourselves on teams, finish teams off or play at any kind of tempo.
17 Mar 2018 08:39:16
Been a big fall out since Seville.
So simple question how much money how many great players does Jose need to get past Seville and play better footy than we did .
Because that is the current issue never mind all the deflection games.
17 Mar 2018 09:11:10
Fair points ken, it what about Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Mata, Pogba, Sanchez. We know all of these players can be brilliant but they are so inconsistent. They have the talent so is it attitude, mindset, tactics? I really don’t know but I expect ajose to get more out of very talented players.
17 Mar 2018 09:47:20
Is it that surprising that a notoriously defensive coach is getting the best out of our defensive players to play well, yet is struggling to get the best out of our forward thinking players?
17 Mar 2018 09:48:57
I think what we can see is that the team is set up to protect the defence, at the expense of attacking players. The reality is that this approach is no longer good enough to win EPL titles and champions leagues. Over the last few seasons we have spent hundreds of millions, and are paying massive wages, for attacking players who are completely shackled and ineffective in the current system.
17 Mar 2018 09:54:18
Danny, that’s such a good point, Jose’s MO is no longer working. His thinking is old school and new ideas and approaches are swallowing him up, the worry is he doesn’t seem able to react. One of SAF’s greatest strengths was how he responded to the changing landscape, regularly bringing in a new Assistant with new ideas. Jose seems stuck in his ways and sadly I don’t think they will work any more.
17 Mar 2018 10:20:02
Exactly AJH, José’s system became a template for success during his first tenure at Chelsea, but cracks started showing at Real when he struggled to get the best of Pep’s Barca. Over the last few years, the most successful teams have been ones that set up to score, not simply contain. Even more traditionally defensive sides like Juventus have adapted.
The problem is that José seems to revert to type whenever the pressure is on, and this increasingly makes him look like a man stuck in his past glories. Obviously, he has successes in individual games, but the top top teams will always be step above his approach.
17 Mar 2018 11:27:44
AJH
I would argue that SAF didn’t embrace change, Meulensteen apart the formula was the same. SAF ran a tight ship using the same successful methods he always used. The greatest motivator of all time, up there with Clough, but the club kept its old path to the point we were behind others. The simple test of responding to changing landscapes was his response to the arrival of City and their new money. Dismissing them as noisy neighbours and declaring no value in the market whilst they were buying Aguero and developing an infrastructure that puts us to shame. That isn’t responding to a changing landscape to me, great as he was we fell behind and maintained the old style club. Whilst City created links with local schools we carried on in the same vein in youth recruitment, a nice profitable option rather than a conveyer belt of talent. Only recently have we become more aggressive, signing players like Puigmal.
SAF was a true icon and innovator when he arrived but seemed stuck in his ways, even the appointment of his successor smacked of that.
17 Mar 2018 12:04:52
Red Man - can you tell me who has come off of the conveyor belt of talent at City in the last 5 years. Then name me the players who have come through the Utd youth system that has fallen behind City's prototype.
It will be interesting to see who seems to have the most successful system.
17 Mar 2018 12:05:15
Jred
"So simple question how much money how many great players does Jose need to get past Seville and play better footy than we
did. "
I think we already have the players to get past Seville but it was a combination of factors that meant we didnt. We are not a team, we set up to not get beat but most importantly, when we step out on the pitch we no longer strike the fear of god into the opposition. We have quality but no character. Every team can be improved but its better to get the best out of what you hav son as you get the right blocks for the right holes.
17 Mar 2018 13:03:38
Keanooh
It takes years maybe even 10 years from the inception of the youth investment before you get fruit. Foden is a quality young player from it. Let’s see what else but the club only have a ten year history.
17 Mar 2018 13:17:22
Ajh. I tend to disagree. If jose went out toe to toe with the best and more technical teams and didn't go out to protect valencia shaw young and whatever cb's play when bailly is not there we would be getting battered.
Jred how many players does jose need to beat seville? Stupid microscopic view imo so how much did pep spend and got beat by wigan? Its one game that was just pathetic but a gross overeaction from some.
Jred do you think jose should be fired?
Imo jose has done less damage to the club in his press conf then fergie did when he wanted to sue major shareholders over a horse he never owned.
Sanchez is here 9 games how was vidic and evra after 9 games? Or ddg after 9 games? Ill tell you they were all worse than sanchez has been.
Martial is not yet or never has been brilliant for us but is on target for his seasons best goal haul. Ed002 says the club feels they can get a better player than him and are prepared to let him go and i agree with that.
Lvg signed him and shaw made them the worlds most expensive teenagers and neither lived up to their billong so far under either manager. Martial didn't make france euros squad and hardly plays for them. So both his current coaches think he doesn't warrent a place in their teams but you think he is great. So how often have you seen him train?
rashford on for a seasons best goal haul. So is lukaku.
Ed002 told us he did try to sign 2 full backs in summer and a cb in jan.
Huge errors last week by the manager in the seville game nobody is denying that. I don't like certain traits he has in his persona most dont. But i'd rather have him in our dressing room with the right backing he will take pep and city's title off them next season.
Fergie spent big money record fees for keane pallister Veron and plenty of duffers in djemba bebe prunier kleberson etc etc.
Redman is right. United have always been the biggest spenders in england traditionally. And for last 30 years that has bought us the most success. City are now the biggest spenders and coincidently are now the top team. When chelsea were biggest spenders they were most succesful.
Even Liverpool have spent more than us this year tbink how they must feel spend 2nd most and are not getting better results.
People raving about mctom. If pofba but in displays like mctom he would still be getting slated I've no doubt about that so he is being judged on his price tag and wages something the rooney lovers told us was irrelevant when it was an argument against rooney for many.
Im happy to finish 2nd this year with this swuad i think its a great achievement. i'm not happy at all with the style that got us there. My view is the style will change maybe not as much as some would like but enough for most when he gets the opportunity to get his platers in this summer.
17 Mar 2018 16:29:55
I think that's a brilliant post Ken!
17 Mar 2018 16:59:48
People are raving about McT because he is an Academy graduate, the expectations of a player who was a world record fee will, and should, be much higher.
SAF may have bought his way to early success but the late nineties and onwards were also down to the freakish event of so many top quality youngsters all graduating to the first team at the same time. I don’t think that will ever happen again.
I was there in the early SAF year’s and I was there in the Bellion years so I’ve taken the rough with the smooth. This is something of a circular debate and I’m not sure there is that much disagreement; SAF overlooked so many players bacuse of the ‘no value in the market’ nonsense and we fell behind. Jose is now trying to rectify the years of under investment and the poor LVG signings.
However, the key question is whether you think Jose still has what it takes or whether you think he is yesterday’s man. For me it is the latter.
17 Mar 2018 17:51:16
I understand that viewpoint ajh. But i beg to differ.
As i say it will be a lot clearer for us all in 12 months time.
If nothing has changed and we are still not challenging and playing better stuff in 12 months time then i will change my tune but if the board back him he will bring us back our title imo.
17 Mar 2018 19:23:34
I agree with Shappy. Mourinho is a defensive coach and some of our defence are playing well in the main.
I was sad to see he brought his normal coaches with him. I honestly thought he'll bring a young assistant who is a bit more attack minded to get the balance right.
17 Mar 2018 23:26:58
For me the problem is I consistently. I venture to suggest that we play reasonably well when Jose slips the leash and allows them to play.
Put them back in a tight tactical box and they can't be bothered. That, I find is what frustrates me and, I believe, the players. No players come to MU play anything other than exiting expansive football. They are hacked off, it shows, and reluctantly I understand.