09 Mar 2018 15:56:27
Good post below groom evertonthings.
Just because a team plays defncively doesn't mean they have not played well it just means they didn't play attractive football.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
If a team sets out not to concede and they don't they have carried out their game plan well and played well.
It might not suit a lot of people but it doesn't mean they have played badly.
09 Mar 2018 16:32:23
That's not necessarily true. Take the game against Sevilla the other week.
Our team set out to not concede, and we didn't. So on the surface we played well.
However, when you watched the game the reason we didn't concede wasn't due to great defending but a combination of poor finishing and world class goalkeeping.
Sevilla average around 13 shots a game, yet against us (a team specifically set up to stop them scoring) they mustered a season high 29 shots on goal. DDG saved us a few times and Sevilla failed to hit the target with a vast number of shots.
In no way can it be considered that we played well in that game. We had game plan (which many of us weren't happy with), but the execution of that plan was poor even if the end result was what we were hoping for.
My view is we have great forward players, a good midfield and awful defenders (bar Bailly) . So why invite the opposition on to our weakest area? When Juventus have done so they have in the knowledge that they boast one of the best defences in the world.
Do we really want to be inviting pressure on Smalling, Rojo and Lindelof?
When our confidence was high at the start of the season we kept banging four goals past teams without really playing well. If we could get our forward line to click and focused on playing on the front foot the opposition would have half as many chances against us while we would have 4 or 5 times the number of chances we currently create at least.
Yes we would concede a few silly goals, ones that could be avoided if we either played more defensively or had better defenders, however, we would also be scoring far more and I would wager have at least an extra 10 points.
Man City have a higher goal difference than we have point total. They also have conceded the least number of goals in the league. So they have officially defended better than we have.
We are Manchester United, and throughout our history we have proven that attack is our best form of defence. There is nothing wrong with admiring a well drilled solid defensive performance. But in truth that is not what we are about. When I'm watching us play I don't want to be on the edge of my seat as we are camped out in our penalty area and DDG keeps making unbelievable world class saves every few minutes. I want to be on the edge of my seat watching us carve teams open and scoring great goals.
09 Mar 2018 17:10:15
Shappy i am not advocating that we should play defencively but when a team does (any team) if they are successful in keeping clean sheets then they are achieving the objectives set out to them by their manager.
You may not agree with or like the tactic but the players don't answer to you they anawer to their boss.
09 Mar 2018 17:21:25
Wot Shappy said.
Ken, you're talking nonsense. Football is about scoring goals. If no one concedes any then it's rubbish so why bother?
09 Mar 2018 17:23:46
It's true a team can have a game plan and if they execute that game plan correctly then they have done their jobs well. However if that plan is flawed morally such as playing ultra defensive football against teams with minimal attacking threat and sacrificing your own quality/ strengths to bolster that defensive shape - then I'd argue the plan is poor and perverted.
In the film Gladiator, the evil emperor had a plan to beat Russel Crowe, (stabbing him before the official fight) - that's not how Man Utd should operate.
There are times to shut up shop, and a plan isn't a good one if it can't be changed. The objective for Man Utd should be to score 5 goals a game, not simply keep the opponents out - that is the plan of relegation fodder.
09 Mar 2018 17:38:21
I'd like to replace Mourinho with Kevin Keegan. That should ensure more goals.
09 Mar 2018 17:50:17
Beast i'm not disputing that its not the way we should play but if any team plays that way and does it well then they have played well defensively.
We don't have to like it but imo its good play if a game plan is executed not entertaining and not the way i want united to play.
09 Mar 2018 18:02:18
I don't mind a team that sits back but have a clear game plan to hit on the break but don't find anything amazing about a team just flat out defending . How many bottom half teams in particular have come to utd and tried that . They do it because they feel out gunned and will lose maybe badly if they don't play defensively . But we have a team of highly payed internationals and I don't feel defeat is inevitable unless we change to a defensive set up . I'd have thought a balanced approach against a team like Liverpool was sensible as u have to be aware they can hurt u but just as aware u can hurt them to .
09 Mar 2018 18:20:45
Agree with that slate.
I watched italy and italian teams in particular defend brilliantly in 1 nil wins and nil all draws.
United for me should try to win every game but there are games i would expect us to be more cautious than others.
09 Mar 2018 18:43:58
Its just about me smarter then your opponents and play to your strength.
You can't always fight fire with fire sometimes you have to be tactically astute otherwise you will lose.
09 Mar 2018 21:39:31
And yet our defenders who are big part of the team keeping clean sheets get dogs abuse on here.
09 Mar 2018 22:18:32
Shappy, good post, completely agree.
09 Mar 2018 22:31:47
the problem being Ken is that we are cautious in the majority of games, i'm sure more of us would be more understanding if Jose set up defensively against madrid or Barcelona but we do it against teams in the bottom half of the premiershiptoo.
09 Mar 2018 22:26:06
When your team is defensive and win you don't care but when you don't win with that style then it's embarrassing for a club our size.
09 Mar 2018 22:34:31
Great post Shappy. Totally agree.
10 Mar 2018 00:48:38
Thats my point trce. If any team for example is leading one nil at half time and the manager sets them up to park the bus for the entire 2nd half and they win 1 nil then they have played well.
Its not the way anyone wants to see their team play but that shouldn't detract from the fact that the team carried out their game plan successfully.
I hate watching us play like we do at times it is awful to watch but i'm hopeful that will change for the better next season.
For the remainder of the season i hope to see pogba rash sanchez valencia and bailly find their form they are performing (bailly excluded) below their level i think players like young smalling mata jones and lindelof and shaw when asked have played to thir level you could argue its the best smalling and young have ever plaed for united. I think ddg jessie and matic so far this season have been above par. Lukaku improving all the time imo. Martial teeters between great and poor.
10 Mar 2018 10:56:48
Sorry Beast but I don't see the way United are playing generally as being morally flawed or perverted.
Personally, I really enjoy watching two totally opposing styles battling it out. Defence v attack. It's a classic theme in a lot of sport. Not just team sports either. Boxing springs to mind. You've got to be able to defend and take the punches. You've got to stay off the canvas and go the distance. You've got to counterpunch and counterattack and use your combinations. This is where United aren't quite right. We're unbalanced and the timings a bit off.
But I do think United are moving in the right direction. If Mourinho addresses the obvious weaknesses in defence and midfield, then we will be really competing and not looking so toothless as we can do against top opposition.
We should remember that a lot of work was needed and that mistakes have been made. But I do think problems are being addressed throughout the club. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I'd just like to say as well I'm not a Jose fan, never liked him since he slid down the byline when Porto robbed us. But, to be fair, Jose has pulled in his antics. He hasn't got everything right but he has added to the trophy cabinet.
I find the idea that United's ethos should be winning every game five nil a bit naive bordering on crazy. Three points Beast mate, that's what it's about.
If United park the bus today and it ends nil nil, I'd be happy because I'd have a quick look at the league table. You've got to go the distance. Obviously, I'd try and ignore who's top.
As for Gladiator: Are you not entertained? Well, I know you're not Beast. I'm not to be honest. But I'm United til I die. Thick or thin, win or lose. Nothing else comes close.