Manchester United banter 78425

 

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02 Mar 2018 17:48:57
I think Arsenal are now well out of the race for top four and looking at our rivals, I still think it is a battle for second between us and the Scousers. If City beat Chelsea and we get a result at Palace then I can’t see Chelsea catching us either. That’s good news compared to last year and we can commit to the cups but in terms of the League next year, looking at the standard City are setting there is a big gap to close.

I know they are our city rival and a lot of people have suddenly gone off Pep but what a job he has done. Ok he has spent money but he has spent it well and has players playing to their potential. Hats off to him, he has gotten the best out of his squad. It pains me to say it but their football is lovely to watch and I have no issue acknowledging that.

Arsenal must surely change Manager, it seems Chelsea may be looking to dot he same. That leaves Spurs who despite shiny football appear to have regressed this year, Liverpool who continue to develop, and us. We have made progress in terms of points but potentially there are still a stack of issues to address. However, it’s a funny old game, a good win with Pogba playing really well and suddenly everything will be sunny again.

I’d like to see Shaw installed at left back and Bailly back at CB. Hopefully the front 3 can find some understanding and we can see just how punishing they can be. Bring on Palace!

Agree5 Disagree5

02 Mar 2018 18:17:21
Really good post AJH. I agree I think we all have to acknowledge that pep has done an amazing job at city. Yes he’s had an open cheque book but he’s spent well and importantly spent on players that fill his philosophy and style of play. That’s a lot more difficult than it looks as we saw with our own LVG who couldn’t implement whatever rubbish philosophy he was trying to implement. We have to buy players who fit the way Jose wants to play. Problem is I still struggle to see what style or identity we have under Jose. We are well placed and have improved so things aren’t all bad.

02 Mar 2018 19:02:59
Yeah I'm very concerned about the plan myself (or what I can read into the plan) .

Many hopeful fans believe it will click once Jose has 'his team' and some lament the lack of a spine.

But we have arguably the world's best goalkeeper, he signed a spine - Lindelof and Bailly as CB's, Matic and Pogba as CM's and Lukaku/ Ibra as strikers. That is over £250m worth of spine and DDG is worth a lot on top.

Then factor in the talent of Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Mata (we can argue how good they are, but they are assets) . Not to mention most people's most consistent performer in Valencia and then Jose's favourite in Fellaini and again many of our soft spots in Herrera (who has gone backwards) - I think we are clutching a bit to say that Jose doesn't have his team.

Then we have one of the best players in the league signing in Sanchez! Jones who has looked rock solid most games and an enviable list of squad players, old and young - most of which full internationals.

I think we are seeing Jose's team, maybe a bit of tinkering here and there needed, but no more than any other team. Make no mistake this is his team and he has spent wildly.

02 Mar 2018 19:47:39
Beast I agree it a very good squad. I think there is a lot more to come from it.

{Ed004's Note - I think we are finally starting to get somewhere with this squad. We are not 2nd for no reason. We have a very strong spine now (maybe lacking a top partner for Bailly) it's just the wide areas that need improved upon this summer and no doubt that'll happen. Hopefully it starts to click more between now and the summer. Definitely think 3 in midfield is the way to go}

02 Mar 2018 20:05:28
Completely agree with you Ed. I don't get the love in with Pep . I hate his antics when he loses, he tells his players to dive cry like little babies when their players gets foules yet he instructw them to foul others.

He is lucky that he had a more settled squad to build his team from where as Mourinho picked up a inferior squad when he join3d United.

It is also to learn quickly how to attack and play the way Guardiola wants his players to play as oppose to learning how to play disciplined football under Mourinho.

That is the reason we are second at this moment. We should be fully challenging next year for the title and if he do bad next year then i will put my hands up and say Guardiola your a genius.

{Ed004's Note - Not to belittle what Pep has done this season but he also inherited a far stronger side than Jose did. Manchester City have been excellent this season and fully deserve to win the title. However, Pep inherited world class players in KDB, Silva and Aguero and they're the biggest differences between the teams right now. Mourinho had to sign our two main men in midfield and striker leaving funds short for other positions, whereas when Pep came in he could afford to spend just shy of 150 million on full backs and 100 million on centre backs without having to worry about sorting his midfield and attack out}

02 Mar 2018 20:19:54
Ed4
Can't see us adding out wide to be honest got plenty of options up there .
Lukaku and Sanchez will start 90% of games up there .
Jose was talking about Pereira the other week and said
he is playing out wide on the wing which is a position we don't have at United.
Which is very true, people go on about playing wide but we play with 3 attackers it a different set up .
We are set up to play as Jose wants.

{Ed004's Note - I worded that poorly should have just said mainly fullback positions. They offer us next to nothing going forward. When was the last time any of our full backs got to the by line for a cross? Additionally, unless Sanchez starts to play on the right more frequently I would be inclined to say we need a right sided winger as well to balance the side out (have a worrying feeling that we will try to get Bale in the summer there)}

02 Mar 2018 20:30:19
Lol pep has it easy it's just luck.
The biggest difference is pep has his team and players playing well .
Yes he has kdb and we have to make do with pogba . But Kdb is playing well is pogba?
I'm not a big fan of otamendi but the lad has played well this year .
Sterling has been fantastic is he more talented than martial? Or just playing better.

Sane has come into a new league at a young age just like Jesus and been great .
Fernadinho has been fantastic .
Delph has played well at lb we only have Shaw. Who can't get a game

Pep must just be lucky that his players and team are playing well .

Beast makes a good point imagine if all the players he mentioned above where playing well . Jose just been unlucky I suppose.

{Ed004's Note - The point I'm making is I don't think Pep signed KDB. If he came in and had to sign KDB, Silva, Aguero etc would he have had the funds to purchase in those other positions? I am not putting this down to luck at all. City have been far better in the transfer market that us for a long time and when we have had to make up for underspending for years we have then went and overspent on dross like Di Maria, Depay, Schneirderlin etc. It looks like we are finally getting our signings right though}

02 Mar 2018 20:34:43
We are second in the league which is about par for the course but we could still do a lot better .
But to be fair pep and city have been sensational and if pep was at United playing that brand of football people on the site would be drooling.

02 Mar 2018 20:47:45
Doing Pep a massive injustice there. It’s not easy to play his way. They have spent a lot but bought well. We have spent just as much. Zlatan was a stupid signing, Lindelof looks a championship player, and we’ve stuck with poor full backs for years now. We are a million miles away from city. Don’t see us getting near them next year.

02 Mar 2018 20:39:51
Ed or the full backs are playing and doing what there told a bit like ivanovic at Chelsea under Jose.
Defend first, if you watch our full backs push up more if we get a couple up but first of it defend .

Watch Jose Chelsea team 4 players in the last 3rd if 1 goes in an other steps out into cm . 4 up top 7 behind but the attacking is largely done by the attackers .

{Ed004's Note - You've picked up Ivanovic as an example but I could just as easily point out Marcelo, Maicon, Cole etc who he let attack when they want. Also not sure picking out a game against a top 4 is a fair example either (would like to point out we currently sit 2 in top 6 table having played least amount of games so seems to be working there).
There have been plenty of games this season. Especially at home where both full backs have played very high up the pitch but bar a few Valencia crackers I can't recall our full backs doing much in the attack}

02 Mar 2018 20:53:32
Ed
Have they? Would you of been happy if United had spent 100 mil on sterling and stones.
Is sterling a better signing and player than martial?
Both got dogs abuse on here .
Was kdb a better signing than pogba? Or is he playing better
Ibra Miki lindelof.

{Ed004's Note - Personally think KDB is a better player but not much in that. That's the thing though. Pep got a 50 million cb signing wrong and has just went an spent another 50 million on one. That's while having Kompany, Otamendi (30 mill +) and Mangala (42 million) in the squad in January. All I'm trying to say is, Pep had a better squad when he joined at the same time as Jose, he has subsequently spent more on his squad and we are still trying to play catch up. I think that majority on here would admit city have a better squad than us. Only De Gea, Bailly, Sanchez, Matic and Pogba would be in with a shout of getting into their side}

02 Mar 2018 21:00:05
Everyone are long way from city .
And if city play this well next season the rest will be playing for 2nd again.

02 Mar 2018 21:04:49
I don't think it has anything to do with luck tbh. Had Jose signed for City and Pep for us, it would be boring boring Man City and look how entertaining Utd are again imo.

It's all to do with what the manager is asking the players to do and how they are being educated/ trained. City play with a tempo and the players work as a team - you can do that with a pub team, but we are not doing the basics. I have never seen us hoof the ball so much and have such little penetration or wavelength between players.

We have top class players that look to be performing well below their previous standards consistently. Now and again this happens to players they all have dips in form, but to have your best players being under-par more games than they are on the ball is a problem with the management for me. Even if it were one or two players off form I could understand, but it's chronic throughout the team. Jose is just damn lucky he followed LVG.

Without being around the team I can't tell you what the exact problem is, but the manager is responsible for the team and we look like a group of unhappy individuals, lacking confidence, playing within themselves.

We are 2nd despite this of course, but our team should be much closer to City, we should be playing much better football and most of us have no idea which players will turn up next game or not. We also have a very good idea of exactly the type of performance we will see next game whether that be against Palace or Sevilla - hard to break down, slow and sloppy in possession probably taking a chance or two and DDG pulling us out the mire with a top save or two. Rinse and repeat, almost week in week out for the past 18 months.

02 Mar 2018 21:17:47
Great post ed again and totally agree.

Pep already had Kdb, Aguero, Kompany and david Silva.

I bet you any money if we had those 4 players at United when Jose took over we would b3 cruising and not drooling over Pep.

Jred how could you compare Martial to St3rling when Sterling has been playing in premier league for last 5 years and he also had talent but just inconsistent. He is finally showing his potential and has saved City many points this year.

Martials going through what Sterling did at liverpool and he will be ripping the league sooner or later if he gets to play in his fav position which is a striker.

Kdb and Pogba play two diff roles one is a attqcking midfielder and the other is basically a central midfielder that wants to so what Kdb does but for some reason he isn't as good or maybe He is following joses instructions.

I always maintained goals wins you matches and it is between Aguero who Guardiola got when he came over or Jose who had to bring a 35 year old zlatan because Martial and Rashford was too young. So again Jose was at a disadvantage in regards to strikers position.

Now the full backs Valencia is a very good rb but that is what he is a very good rb not a attacking right back . Th3 guy can't even cross the ball properly all he does is boot the ball into the area with full power.

If jose flops next year after bjying what he needs then we can say Guardiola is the best or is better then Jose until then we gota wait and see.

02 Mar 2018 21:18:21
I think it's a really talented squad that are good enough to be second in the league with out really playing well .
City are playing out of there socks tho, they ate playing well.

02 Mar 2018 21:12:25
Ed pep took over city after they had finished on 66 points the exact same points as United when Jose took over .
Did pep get the signing of stones wrong played well this season when fit .

If Jose had taken over at city I wonder if they would be playing as well or if sterling and co would look quite as good .

On the other had I wonder if pep had taken over at United if United would be playing as well and if rash martial and pogba would look as good as they are now?

{Ed004's Note - Think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this (mainly because I'm getting bored). Both have different styles of play and until Pep got his world class player in every position we didn't see any scintillating performances from them. If Pep currently had our squad of players I'm not sure he would be sitting top of the league}

02 Mar 2018 21:23:35
I’m with Beast. Swap the Managers and ask yourself if our players would be playing better, and if Jose had the City squad would they be playing as well as they are? I hate to admit it but they got the young current coach whilst we got the Allardyce of top coaches.

02 Mar 2018 21:39:02
Singh
Couldn't disagree more .


Pep already had Kdb, Aguero, Kompany and david Silva.  

I bet you any money if we had those 4 players at United when Jose took over we would b3 cruising and not drooling over Pep. Singh

Kompany is about finished and hasn't really played, Kdb a player Jose had previously sold has gone from a ten to a winger to playing in a midfield 3 and is getting even better
. Pogba is going backwards .

Jose didn't have to get ibra he chose to he then spent 90 mil on Lukaku .

City are playing a similar brand as Munich did Barcelona did it's not luck or coincidence .

Messi is a great player ddg is a great player Ronaldo is a great player and pep is a great manager .

You honestly think if Jose had taken over a city they would be doing as well?

02 Mar 2018 21:59:24
I think pep is a better manager than Jose.
Been a great manager Jose, is still a very good manager but I'm not sure he is as good as he was .
Even at his best Jose teams weren't a great watch .
I don't think Jose is or ever has played a brand of football people expect .
It was the same with lvg, people posted over an over again lvg just needs strootman or this or that . Truth was lvg was doing what he had always done and Jose is doing what he does.

I've stuck up a lot for Jose, any other season we would be challenging for the title he is doing a good job but pep has raised the bar this season .

03 Mar 2018 00:31:55
Agreed fully with Beast and Jred. Anyone thinking pep is just lucky is completely delusional. Btw, city might spend money but the most expensive player they've bought is £65m. We spent £25m more on pogba and lukaku. It's a complete joke.

{Ed0333's Note - so you think Pep would walk the league with say Sean Dyches budget at Burnley? He’s a checkbook manager always has been and always will be. He’s only successful because he has gargantuan transfer budgets and can afford to buy incredible offensive players to pad his squad who are head and shoulders above the competition. Look at his bench as an example?

03 Mar 2018 05:52:38
You only have to look at last season to see what pep is capable of without his enormous transfer pockets. How scintillating were the lovely city.

03 Mar 2018 07:55:35
Good debate guys, for what it's worth I agree with everything written by Ed 4.

Jose inherited the harder job rebuilding the Utd squad. He won us two trophies last year whilst Pep won nothing.

Don't forget it was only last season that pundits and fans alike were laughing at City's defence and goalkeeper and saying he couldn't win the premier league playing that brand of football. Pep under achieved last season and if he'd been at a Club like Real Madrid he'd probably have lost his job. (Not that I'm saying he should have been sacked and their patience is being rewarded now) .

Pep is a fantastic coach, arguably the best in the world but we saw a glimpse last season that even Pep needs an open cheque book to get his brand of football correct despite already having an embarrassment of riches at his disposal. What they are achieving this season is brilliant but let's just wait and see how the season pans out.

Jose is slowly building the resistance and Pep won't have everything his own way whilst he's still around in my opinion.

At this stage in time I think it would be foolish for us to change manger in the pursuit of a more attacking brand of football. With City trying to build a dynasty what we need at the moment is stability, experience and somebody that knows how to win. Jose ticks all those boxes for me and whilst our football might be uninspiring on occasions we need to look at the bigger picture and stop reacting to results and performances on a game by game basis.

{Ed025's Note - good post that danny..

03 Mar 2018 07:49:51
it's more than money with pep it's his modern style of football that's why pundits love him because they sit and watch it and entertained by it Jose inherited best keeper in the world also future world class players martial, rashford and Shaw who have all gone backwards and through in 300 million on top of that and some of the boring stuff we play and we 're slagging off pep. how many honest fans on here would swap Jose for pep, I certainly would.

03 Mar 2018 08:52:41
Danny
No one is talking about changing managers .

Pep took over a city squad with the second highest average age in the league, that had finished on exactly the same points that united had .

After 12 month he has them playing the best football in Europe.
There are always excuses but the fact is pep is doing the business end off.

There has been a big debate on pogba and it's the same excuses, he needs to play left, he needs a certain player beside him he needs this formation or that .

Kdb like pep on the other hand is just doing the business if he plays 10 he does it if he plays wide he does it if he plays in a cm 3 he does it . That the difference .

03 Mar 2018 06:54:24
Ed, Pep. At be a chequebook Manager but surely so is Jose. Jred has answered my key point: swap Pep and Jose and what would you see? You would see attacking football from us and pragmatic foot ball from City. What you wouldn’t see is a 16 point gap. Jose was a great Manager but I do believe he is being overtaken by younger coaches with fresh ideas. It happened to Wenger years ago and I think it is happening to Jose.

{Ed004's Note - Last time they faced each other in a season with even squads Mourinho broke the goal scoring record in La Liga and won the league}

03 Mar 2018 09:31:52
I give Pep no credit.

Firstly the guys a cheat and a hypocrite. Page one of the Pep manual of football is if you lose possession then commit a foul. Hardly sporting.

He inherited a good squad. Talk about average an all the rest of it it was a good squad. The likes of Aguero, Kompany, Silva, Fernandinho, etc saved him millions.

The chequebook. Bought a keeper an when he flopped bought another even more expensive one. Got some dodgy centrebacks. Bought a few more. Lost a player for a couple of weeks towards the end of the window. Tried to buy Mahrez.

The disrespect he shows to other professionals. His antics on the touchline to refs an s.

His whining about his players being tackled. Yet his players commit as bad or worse tackles every game.

Swap him? You can keep him thanks.

03 Mar 2018 09:48:47
Ed4
When they had a even squad as you say in la liga Jose won 1 la liga and a copa in 3 year .
Pep won 2 titles a copa the CL and the Fifa cup .

{Ed004's Note - Even was probably an exaggeration that Barca side will go down as possibly the best in history but it showed that Jose could compete with Pep. I agree that Pep plays better football than Jose, however I disagree with this notion that if Pep was here we would be better off. Pep needs near enough 11 world class players in each position. How would he be dominating the league here if he was relying on the likes of Smalling etc to play out of the back or any of our full backs to actually offer attacking support. Heck how could we press for 90 mins with likes of Pogba, Mata, Martial, Matic and Lukaku etc}

03 Mar 2018 10:37:10
Ed
Sterling starts for city delph ( at rb), stones does otamendi does . All gets dogs abuse on here now city suddenly have world class players in every position .

Sane and Jesus are young players playing great shame we can't get rash and martial to the same standard

I.

{Ed004's Note - Would any of sterling, stones and Delph get in their best 11? Only one would be Sterling maybe and who would he drop out, out of Sane, KDB, Silva (x2), gundogan and Fernandinho for him? Bare in mind Pep tried to replace him with Sanchez at the start of the year. Otamendi also cost more than any of our centre back recruits. Statistically has Martial not had a better season than Sane in a far less functional attacking system?}

03 Mar 2018 10:38:44
Jred - a lot of people on here have stated they would rather have a manager that plays attacking football. Some even saying this matters more than results. I think there was a poll recently in which most stated they would gladly swap Jose for Potch, despite him not winning a single trophy in his managerial career and barely wining an away game against one of his top 6 rivals (this is not Potch bashing by the way I actually think he a very good manger but he's got a long way to go before we can put him in Jose's class), So please don't tell me some are not calling for Jose's head.

Pep in an incredible manger, his teams play great football but City have only been playing this way for 7 months. They are rightly taking all the plaudits but Pep was brought in to do bigger things than just string some nice passes together. They need to retain the title and win the Champions League to be considered a truly great side in my opinion. There is more to football than attacking transitions and possession which amounts to nothing if it doesn't bring results.

It's absolutely pointless comparing Pep with Jose. They have completely different philosophy's on the game. Both are proven winners and the style of which you prefer is a personal preference.

I agree with Ed 4 I'm not convinced Pep would get much more out of this Utd side. He hasn't got a magic wand, he was heavily criticised last season for the manner of their defending and dare I say mocked in some quarters for comments like "I don't like tackles"'or something like that anyway.

I think we're about par this season but City are making us look bad. There is no doubt we have to raise the bar and I think we'll rise to the challenge. He has already proved this in the past.

Like I've said Pep won't have it all his own way whilst Jose is around and the Sanchez saga is already testimony to that. Make no mistake he was a massive loss to them and possibly the difference between them being able to realistically mount a serious challenge for the quadruple.

I'm not sure I understand your point mate. Essentially we're in agreement that Pep has City playing some great stuff but I don't think he's got a magic wand and I'm not convinced that Pep would be getting much more out of this Utd side.

I'm in total agreement with Ed 4 for all the reasons he has explained.

03 Mar 2018 10:44:54
Ed4
Why could a front 3 of lukaku Sanchez and martial not press plush rash and linders or pogba Herrera?

{Ed004's Note - Due to how lackadaisical they all are. Only Sanchez and Herrera would really benefit from them}

03 Mar 2018 11:05:57
He wouldn't of bought pogba, matic and lukaku. he buys skilled players with energy which none of them are.

03 Mar 2018 11:33:04
I think pep gets a bit respect on here because home or away against anyone so far his teams have a go and attack and it's got them a country mile clear of everyone . Itl be interesting to see if he still does it when they eventually play Barcelona or Madrid who may be more than up for going toe to toe that most English teams have been affraid to . If he does hats off to him time will tell.

03 Mar 2018 11:45:07
Ed
A good manager wouldn't let them be lackadaisical just like pep didn't let aguero .
Managala cost more than all them centre backs and he us awful .

What's there first 11 got to do with anything the fact is city are walking the league and playing the best football in Europe with theses players .
The rest is what if's and excuses.

So would martial get in the city team . Yes imo.

{Ed004's Note - I thought first 11 was quite important due to fact we are debating who has the better team?}

03 Mar 2018 11:45:36
Danny read the above pal . Peps just lucky.

{Ed004's Note - I don't think anyone has posted the word 'lucky' as much as you in this conversation and it's really getting tiresome as the debate has not been centred on him being 'lucky' as you're implying}

03 Mar 2018 11:47:01
I think the majority would agree we need to strengthen our Rb/ Lb and possibly a cb, but I really think we missed a trick by not going for a right winger, eg perisic or similar. We have martial, rash, sanchez who all can be accommodated on the left but nothing from the right of quality. We have a good core and contiuous improvement is necessary in all teams as players move on but we are finally going in the right direction after Mr Mayonaise had us playing backpass football for 2 seasons.

03 Mar 2018 12:49:00
Jred - I have attempted to give my opinion and the reasoning behind it. I think everybody is in agreement that Pep is a brilliant manager.

I think both are excellent mangers with different ideas on how to play the game.

Pep has been playing this brand of football since 2008. His methods and style are not new. In that time Jose has won the treble with Inter, won a title with Madrid, returned to Chelsea and won the title again and came to Utd and won the Europa. My point is I think it's very premature to write Jose's obituary and suggest he is being left behind by more forward thinking mangers. Potch has won nothing, Klopp did well for a spell at Dortmund, but that's over 5 years ago now so his style is nothing new and he's won nothing since.

If somebody could please let me know who these so called modern managers are leaving Jose in their wake, dominating football and playing scintillating football then I'd like to know their names.

I'm prepared to change my mind if I hear a compelling argument that another manager could come to Utd and win us titles playing so called brilliant football but I haven't heard one yet. Maybe Pep could but unfortunately he's at City and I just don't think it's helpful comparing ourselves to them.

Jose wasn't appointed to bring a brand of football to Old Trafford the like of which we've never witnessed before. He was appointed to deliver trophies and fight the looming threat right on our door step.

Maybe the only meaningful way of comparing the two will be long after they've both departed and counting up their respective trophy count.

As always time will prove the only real judge.

03 Mar 2018 12:32:44
Danny and ed 004 i agree with you.
Wait until the summer.
Fact is city are playing great stuff pep is a great coach but jose will topple him and then all you will have is the usual crew that talk out of both sides of their mouth saying told you so.

03 Mar 2018 13:08:17
Ed
Come on read the site pep was lucky at barce lucky at Munich and lucky at city .
Maybe he is just a very good manager who has is players playing very well .
Or maybe city just have world class players in each position?

{Ed004's Note - Ok}

03 Mar 2018 13:53:54
Couple of fabulous posts danny.

{Ed004's Note - Very good posts indeed}

03 Mar 2018 14:22:58
Thanks Deano/ Ed 4. Enjoy your weekend guys.

03 Mar 2018 14:57:50
Great posts danny.

03 Mar 2018 17:35:31
Top post Damny couldn't have worded it better. Let both managers have an even time in reference to what they both want and then compare the two.







 

 

 
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